Tabernanthe Iboga

[oliwek]

... I was looking for info about dosage for ibogaine.... especially rootbark...

and I'm extremely surprised nobody has explained so far the differences....


someone says 14 grams had no vision effect on him, someone else a smaller dosage would be dangerous...

when you give a dosage, you have to tell what kind of iboga you're dealing with :

- Tabernanthe Iboga rootbark : purity of total alcaloids not stable, but somewhere between 2% and 6% usually (used by Bwiti tradition, sold by smartshops in Netherland)

- (Indra) Iboga extract : purity between 15 and 20% (usually from Denmark) : contains all the alcaloids from the plant rootbark.

- Ibogaine hydrochlorid (HCl) : 90 to 98% : pure ibogaine alcaloid (but not the other alcaloids)


edit : those 3 varieties can look almost the same : powder generally.


when you read 20 or 30 mg/kg body weight : it refers to Ibogaine HCl

so to get 20mg/kg, a man weighing 70kg should take :

- 1400mg=1.4g Ibogaine HCl (the 'pure' powder)

or :
- 1400 X 100/15 = 9333mg= 9.3 g Indra extract

or:

- 1400 X 100/3 = 46666 = 46,6g rootbark

but this is for a rootbark of 3% purity! And you're not sure about it!

if purity is 5 % : you should take : 1400 X 100/5= 28g
if purity is 2% : 1400 X 100/2= 70g



That's why I was looking for info on dosage for the rootbark : there is an important difference if you don't know the purity ;

If you want to detox from opates : you need 20 to 30 mg/kg usually (more for methadone than for heroin/morphin)

40 mg/kg was tested on rats and was safe ; 100 mg/kg left brain cells damages!

from my reading : there were random casualties : but from high dosages (overdoses when opiates used together with iboga, heart attacks,...) AND sadly from low doses too (even 1.6mg/kg was enough in a case!). Of course this is a minority. Without full scale scientific study, we don't know exactly, this could be a minority of 1% : still a lot of people...

another case : a man treated by addict self help group in Holland :

the guy is known to suffer from hyper-tension ; but he was already treated once (28mg/kg) without problem in the past ; he takes first a small test-dose : problems with his tension occur BUT later, with the full therapeutical dosis, there was no more problem! go figure...


Has anyone experience with rootbark sold from azarius.nl?

thanks

EDIT:
-Bwiti healers have a potion (unknown ingredients) if an 'initiation' turns bad ;
ATROPINE (1 to 2mg/kg, max 4 mg/kg) however cures all bad symptoms from an ibogaine intoxication. The best way is to inject it through the vein, so you need someone able to do it.
-don't plan to use ibogaine if you have heart or liver problems
-of course, a clinic is safer

 

[skoeip]

Ow and for the record, I looked It up on the web and asked questions about the maoi side of iboga and they said that the studies in the 60's were not good and that later studies proven that iboga is not an maoi.

 

[Shneck]

Got any links for these "good new" studies?

 

[skoeip]

nope, but If you reason, ibogaine is a triptamine, and triptamine's usualy are echanched bij MAOi's, so one gram of triptamine with MAOi's would blast your skull, at least it would blast mine. (example: ayahuasca usualy contains 350 gram DMT, so one gram with enough MAOI wouldnt be a pleasant dose, even if you would wake up I doubt you would remember the trip) and I heard that people have taken up to 2 grams of ibogaine or an equel strong amount of iboga, so I dont believe that iboga is an MAOi.

In the studies in the 60's was reasond that ibogaine is a triptamine, but also a beta-caboline, and those often have MAOi like fetures, but not always. but I must comit that I havent read the studie myself.

Will search for some links.

 

[Shneck]

Sorry, Sir, but I believe you are wrong here.

+ First off, ibogaine IS NOT a tryptamine.
In fact, it is an indole alkaloid, structurally close to both tryptamines and beta-carbolines - the ethylamine chain in the latter is re-connected to the indole ring through an extra carbon atom. In nature, the synthesis of beta-carbolines follows this pattern from analogous tryptamines.
Tryptamines in their turn are precursors to indoles, as well as ergolines (LSD) and beta carbolines.

+ Second, even if ibogaine were a tryptamine (which it is not), what would that prove?
5-MeO-DMT and 5-MeO-AMT also are tryptamines, yet they ARE WEAK MAOIs at the same time.

+ Third, "one gram of triptamine with MAOI's would blast your skull" is a wrong statement as well.
Taking an MAOI does not necessarily "blast my skul" though my brain as well as yours is full of tryptamines - eg., serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine).

All in all, I have to say your reasoning has quite a few holes in it.
I do admit you may have some information I am not aware of, and if you manage to find it, please, share - I'm really interested.
As for the time being, I still insist it IS an MAOI.

Peace.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

8) Every body is talking about 20grams of powdered iboga tebernathe root.Yes you are talking about 20 grams of powdered iboga tebernathe root.There is big difference about IBOGA-powder AND IBOGAIN.I know personaly one friend who was treatmend with IBOGAIN.20grams of root powder is little dose(ibogaina) and can give you some altered perceptions.With shrooms is the primo!What I whant to tell-my budy was treated with pure MAOi-IBOGAIN,which was extracted AND NOW READ;READ;READ- 24 kilo of Tebernathe iboga root extract-IBOGAINE.SO dont be so afraid,but there are reports that Iboga can excerebate parkinson disease.But only in 0.0001% population.Take 10grams and be stimulated as you were on coca leafes tea,or put yourself to visions-but with shrooms+MAOi(iboga).Ask me I know everything from firs hand.

 

[Shneck]

Man, yes, everyone is talking about iboga root powder, you're damn right here. That's mainly because ibogaine is restricted substance, as for iboga root powder you can easily get it from azarius, for example.
It doesn't take to be a rocket scientist to differ iboga from ibogaine, you don't need to discover America once again.

Your friend's story seems quite phony though. Iboga root powder usually contains at least 0.3% ibogaine in average plant material.
If your story were true, then your friend should have been administered around 75g pure ibogaine. Ibogaine LD50 is 82 mg/kg body weight. Common therapeutical dose is around 30 mg/kg. Your friend should then weight about 2,5 ton.
Maybe you're pals with an elephant?

Do you believe this story yourself?
Probably your friend was bullshitting you and you are bullshitting us. Correct me if I'm wrong.

By the way, apart from ibogaine iboga powder contains other alkaloids, like ibogaline, ibogamine, etc. Though they are met in smaller quantities and possess much lower activity some researches suggest that they might add to the powder psychoactivity.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Extract from this is used in 2weeks program.And my friend have two livers.

 

[Shneck]

Sorry, man, but this sounds even more BS.

One of the the major reasons for ibogaine treatment restriction is liver abnormalities.

Ibogaine treatment usually takes just one or two sessions (usually up to 72 hrs), with effective dosage being 17-19 mg/kg/day.
In case of multiweek treatment (which is quite rare) the dosage is dosens of times less, like just 20-25 mg/day.

Sorry, mate, this story is so extremely fishy.
And the "clinic" seems like one from Tarantino's latest "Hostel' movie. A horror one.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Ey man,do you know how did you sound,whant to know-LIKE CRASY CCCP SYENTIST WHO IS WORKING FOR COUPLE KOPEYKI ,AND HIS ANGER IS BLASTED ON EVERY BODY ON THIS FORUM.Chill out.Ibogain is MAOi-yes thts right and you need 24 kilos for exape from opiat addiction.Have you ever be or even try endorfin agonist.I was with couple of guys on all shit of this world-Trainspotting multiply by 10.Viva la comunista

 

[Shneck]

Easy, dude, cool down, I see you're great, don't be so anxious.

Just can't get why me is a crazy scientist - it's you who loads this forum with kilometer-long recipes of how to fix LSD, crack, whatever. Their value = 0.

As for endorphin agonists, yeah, I had my share when you were still easily walking under a table.

So chill out, don't be a racist pig - USSR doesn't even exist anymore, and I'm happy you work for lots of $$$ - that makes you even greater.

Just don't give me this crap about 24 kilos - you sound full of horseshit and it's no good for your great image here.

As for anything else - peace.

 

[immad]

Ey man,do you know how did you sound,whant to know-LIKE CRASY CCCP SYENTIST WHO IS WORKING FOR COUPLE KOPEYKI ,AND HIS ANGER IS BLASTED ON EVERY BODY ON THIS FORUM.Chill out.Ibogain is MAOi-yes thts right and you need 24 kilos for exape from opiat addiction.Have you ever be or even try endorfin agonist.I was with couple of guys on all shit of this world-Trainspotting multiply by 10.Viva la comunista

I guess you suffer from quite a lot of brain damage from the dature you took:

http://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?opt ... 32&lang=nl

I don't know what kinda seed pots you've taken, but if you've taken 8 middle sized pots, you'ld have been dead by now. Since you're still alive, I suggest you enjoy your newly acquired brain damage and get of Shneck's back, who provides rather usefull information

----I'll stop flaming now....

..........- Tabernanthe Iboga rootbark : purity of total alcaloids not stable, but somewhere between 2% and 6% usually (used by Bwiti tradition, sold by smartshops in Netherland).......

Lets say this information is correct, and assume that if I buy Iboga rootbark from azarius I'll get a 6% one, will I have enough to see at least something? (My weigth is 75 kg, so I'll be on 17 mg / kg then)

I read that heroin treatment requires 20 - 30 mg / kg, but since I'm not addicted to heroin, I'm just wondering if a single 20 gram dose from azarius *could* be enough to give me things like visions?

 

[Ilian]

I don't know what kinda seed pots you've taken, but if you've taken 8 middle sized pots, you'ld have been dead by now. Since you're still alive, I suggest you enjoy your newly acquired brain damage and get of Shneck's back, who provides rather usefull information

nice first post

gorans reply wasnt nice either, but flaming flamers doesnt improve the forum. welcome to the forum, but try thinking before you post..

 

[immad]

Hehe, I know I'm not nice x)

But I'm sorry if I've been too offending.
Anyway, that was my first post, but I've been reading this site for quite some time (unregistered), so I'm not completely new here.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

I was fuck up by somting with rats and police and by the way I apologise to that man and I hope that he has taken my Sorry for rush words.You are some time late in this post to write what is wrong and right.One month late. 8)

 

[immad]

I know I'm quite late, but I didn't only flame you

I also added a question, and I think it's unnecessary to open a new topic if an old one exist about that topic, so that justified my late postings.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

I think that spend money on iboga is like you burn yours money.What Azarius sells only 15 percent is good and gives you psychodelic XP.I am afraid that iboga is not in that 15 percent-but if you have extra money and dont know what to do try it.So my recomondation is try if you are not poor and share expirance with all of us.Good luck 8)

 

[Shneck]

Yep, Goran did say he was sorry, and there's no hard feeling, case closed.

As for Azarius iboga root bark, like I said before I have tried it once at 14g.
No psychedelic effect AT ALL but still a definite threshold alert feeling that is somewhat hard to explain.
I guess, a dose around 2 times higher might possibly work but that's treading on a thin ice territory - it may not work again or it may take you to a ride on a psychedelic brontosaurus you are not ready for at all.
Also, it is DAMN EXPENSIVE - like most of Azarius stuff, also, judging by my experience it's kinda weak one - if you were in seriously trying it I guess you should probably check another supplier. Of course, it can just be me, I would be glad to know someone had a better result with it - maybe Azarius people could step in here and clarify things somehow.

To sum it all up, I feel iboga rb/ibogaine is not a common psychedelic to experiment with. It's too poorly researched yet (in its psychedelic respect), it definitely needs extreme caution and responsibility, it's quite pricey so far and it feels too fundamental and primeavally powerfull to treat it as a common psychonaut's ally.

Hope I will get to know it better some day, but that's definitely not in my plans for visible future.
Shamanic stuff.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Yes Shneck you are right.And did you maybe see in large exponented stores on net that they sell Tebernathe Iboga,noup-why?,maybe this tells everything about this psychodelic.My Shrink who is spec. for treatment of drug abusers told me that consuming Iboga links with it about 5 percent posibility of geting PARCINSON OR ALCZHAIMER,I have already write that before.This is harder and dangered exploration that I have all this years with Datura family and other TROPAN drugs/narcotics! 8)

 

[amoak]

Hi,

Iboga is certainly another plant of the gods , the things I can learn and see with this plant are totally diffrent and new , I never saw a teacher plant like iboga , i had try before some experiences with low aphrodisiacs doses , but the last experience was so powerfull a really shamanic experience , with 10 grams iboga rootbark I had one of the most long and one of the stronger experiences of my life , i read people comparing with ayahusca but I think is totally diffrent , first the color spectrum is unreal and different , I never saw colors as I saw with iboga , they have a special light and a color spectrum that is very diffrent of the others entheogenics or the colors that we see in ordinary life , and I was able to taste and smell them even to talk with them , I spoke with people and creatures , each second I was in a diffrent place with diffrent people with faces that i never saw before and is impossible to be part of my unconscious , and the most strange is that I can remember all them , i can remember almost my experience and everything i saw and where i was , is unreal , iboga is a constant out of body experience , i had a CONSTANT out of body experience during the first 8 hours , soooooooooo perfect , unreal and clearer , I was in the desert , in the florest , in the space , inside the ocean , under the earth , inside animals , inside people , I was 5 years old again , i was able to see old friends , old storys , old partys , is one of the most difficult experience to describe , is spiritual , magic , shamanic , but to have a iboga trip you need to be prepared to have physical pain all over your body and to deal with extreme anxiety and fear but the anxiety with me came in flash , one minute i was totally realexed and happy and I thinked that i m in the most safe place of the world , but in some seconds i changed to extreme anxiety and fear , but the anxiety flashs are shorter then the pleasant and relaxed moments, but my mood changed constantly minute after minute without any reason , but i was able to learn a lot with this exprience , is a magical plant that need all the respect as all the others teachers plants.