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Forkbender

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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23 Nov 2005
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11 366
I'm not saying that psychedelics cannot help in curing illnesses, far from it, I think they can have a key role. But the person taking them should have a proper intent of dealing with the illness, otherwise it will not help. In my view psychedelics just help people cure themselves. The same holds for things like HPPD.

If HPPD is caused by psychedelics, please explain to me why most users never get HPPD.
 

peeniwalli

Neurotransmetteur
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2 Sept 2008
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46
I think you have to be genetically predisposed to getting it...there are cases where people get "hppd" without taking drugs..allthough its rare, and there are cases also where siblings get the symotoms after trying psychedelics..
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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Theres no such thing as PDDH .

A lot of people get effects because it a possible part of everyones life . Its common to people not to drugs .

PAVLOVS DRUG . Sorry i was watching a pongo film paralel to writing and my glasses were steamed up so i spelt it wrong .

Please start to think about what people are telling you here and try to get out of your false fixed idea that you have convinced yourself is right .
 

Forkbender

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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23 Nov 2005
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Even if you have HPPD, what are you going to do?

BTW it is only HPPD (according to the DSM-IV) if you suffer from these 'flashbacks' and if your day to day life is influenced by it in a negative way because it limits your normal behaviour.
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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Flashbacks dont exist . When the drugs gone its gone and psychedelics dont cause brain damage . What you have is a mixture of normal effects and your psychology .
 

Mikey_Massacre

Glandeuse pinéale
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10 Juil 2008
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218
I'm starting to see the point. But I never felt and seen that kind of effects before.
 

magickpencil

Alpiniste Kundalini
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15 Mai 2008
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674
GOD a dit:
Flashbacks dont exist . When the drugs gone its gone and psychedelics dont cause brain damage .
i agree w your second statement and not your first, which i consider a bit misguiding
i've never had a flashback, but it makes utter sense to me
if a soldier can have PTSS replete w flashblacks of combat and feelings of terror, why couldn't a psychedelic experience percieved as negative cause similar residual effects?
i don't think it's a case of the brain's chemistry being changed or any thing like, just trauma
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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So , an everyday , normal psychelogical effect , not an effect of the drug .
 

magickpencil

Alpiniste Kundalini
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15 Mai 2008
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674
correct
just clarifying
 

peeniwalli

Neurotransmetteur
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2 Sept 2008
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46
I dont think its a normal thing to see colours change or see things moving around, its something i never expirienced before psychedelics, and its something i see everyday now, along with the other visuals...and so does alot of other people with "hppd", i dont see how they can be fixed ideas..
and the only thing i find to be annoying with it is the lightsensitivity...all other things are quite enjoyable as i said.
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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Its normal that some people are mentaly confused .

Who diagnosed you as having the non existant "HPPD" ? Was it a hypochondriac ?

I have nothing more to say . If you want to declare yourself to be ill because of non existant damage done by psychedelics , make sharlatan diagnosies , be irational and ignore facts theres no point in me trying to help you anymore .
 

st.bot.32

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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5 Oct 2007
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3 886
Until we see some real, large scale tests comparing hppd sufferers to say the rest of psychedelic users, to say people who have never taken psychedelics, I won't have any definitive opinion on the subject. I'm not a medical expert. But there are things we can look at.

For starters, there have been a lot of human trials into psychedelics recently. Like the magic mushroom trials a couple years ago at John Hopkins. Interestingly enough we've heard nothing about HPPD as a result of these tests, although to be fair the sample base was still too small to really mean anything.

I'm saying this as someone who loves and respects psychedelics and wants them to be legal, and plans to continue using them in the long term. The bottom line is that ALL DRUGS, all medicines, all things you put in your body have side effects, hopefully mostly good but sometimes bad. There is no such thing as a free mystical ticket to utopia. Whether physical or psychological, whether predisposed, hypochondriacs or not, a small percentage of people end up reporting problems after taking hallucinogens. I don't think this is something you can just stamp your foot and tell them to ignore or it is all in their head, it has to be addressed in the long run, especially if psychedelics are ever going to be respected as a medicine. You can be darn sure that clinical trials of psychedelics are going to scientifically measure their side effects. We will get an answer soon enough if these medical trials continue.
 

restin

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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18 Avr 2008
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4 978
GOD: what do you suggest to a person who sees colors etc. resp. has a non-existent illness who wants it to stop to do? Don't believe it? I am serious now.
 

GOD

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14 Jan 2006
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I`m not a doctor and i cant make a person more intelligent or honest than they are . If a person has a medical problem they should go and talk to a good doctor and explqain to him their symptoms , and not their personal diagnosis . Then they could tell us what he says and his treatment sugestion . Then they could report about the effects / sucess of the treatment . Then we can comment on what he says .

There have been loads of tests on psychedelics over many years and there has never been a report of physical damage done by them . All the effects that people wrongly call HPPD are well known and documented in people who have never taken any psychedelic drugs . So is mass hysteria .

I think that most people who pretend they have the non existant HPPD have never had a trip . To see what a trip does read the "Psilocybe Tampenensis" thread by Skrudge . Most people have imaginary / placebo / homeopathetic "trips" on extremely weak drops or blotters . The "halucinations" that they talk of are exactly the same as the "halucinations" they think they get because of the non existant HPPD = not halucinations just "normal" psychelogical effects .
 

st.bot.32

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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5 Oct 2007
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3 886
You'd certainly need to find the right doctor, though. Not many doctors are well-versed in this subject and they might just say "oh it is just a side effect of the hallucinogens"... even if it isn't.

The thing is though, even if it is all in the head of the person who claims he/she has HPPD, it is irrelevant. Before they took the drug they didn't notice the effects. After taking the drug they did notice them and as a result they may be anxious. (Even if the effects were there all along). If that is the case maybe this problem can be solved by education, information that they should know before ever taking psychedelics.

The visual cortex is an extremely complex beast. It isn't a matter of just oh your eyes pick up the photons and you see. There are different parts of the brain that trace the outlines of objects, different parts that fill in objects, decode text, neurons that detect motion, etc. All these aspects of the visual cortex are obviously influenced when you take psychedelics. (And I'm not saying it isn't beautiful and magical, it is)

Normal people might look at say a picture, and then turn away and see a positive afterimage for a flicker of a split second. People who claim to have HPPD claim to see afterimages for up to several seconds, all the time. This is not normal. Yes this happens in people who have never taken psychedelics and it is called palinopsia. Maybe some people are predisposed to this condition and psychedelics can trigger it, similar to how they can trigger latent schizophrenia.

If I sound wishy-washy on this subject, it is because I am. Until there is more research done in this area I don't see how anyone can definitively say it exists or it doesn't, much less pass judgment on those who say they are affected by it. There never was any active research into this phenomenon in the 20th century, an era during which as I recall, a lot of today's accepted illnesses such as allergies were considered to be "all in the head" by the medical profession.
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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JFC . Symptoms are symptoms , they exist but saying its the fucking fairys is sick . I have had and can have most of the symptoms that are being described , but its not the fucking machine elves its what it is . Just because some of you are to blind or to dead in the haed to notice them before you took your micro doses doesnt mean you are doctors and can diagnose yourselves as having halucinogen damage . What damage ? Where ? How ? What causes the effects ? Why do lots of people who have never had drugs have them ?
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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OK , my last try . This is for the thick people out there .

If you look at the sky you can see a few planets . If you look through a telescope you can see more . The telescope didnt make those planets .
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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14 Jan 2006
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14 944
Its not magic , i found it under a stone.......
 
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