How often does it happen, a psychosis?

[mysticwarrior]

Hello people, i want to talk about something from which i know many psychonauts do ignore it or won't see the damage that a small group of our fellow psychonauts run into, i mean a psychosis.

Today i meet a guy who lives in Holland, and who i spoke some times on msn. When i spoke with him on msn, i often thought that he was making jokes. A week ago for example, his msn shut down, and he told me that god did it. I really had no clue that he really meant what he said, so i laughed.

But everytime i spoke to him, i couldn't really understand what he was trying to say. And since last year, because i know already 2 people who have had a psychosis. I read some stuff about psychosis and i started to think the guy to which i spoke really had a psychosis.

Anyway, today he asked me if i could get some acid, and since i learned that he lived pretty close to my house. We meet each other somewhere close to my house to go out for hunting for mushrooms. And i would handle him some acid.

But when i arrived i saw him standing in the front of a shop, laughing on people on a very scare strange way. And i directly started to suspect that something wasn't right. I handled him the acid(which i of course regret if i look back now.) and we drove with my car to some fields to hunt for some mushrooms. When we where on our way, i noticed he couldn't speak normally. He told me he was a sjaman and had done some rituals at a place somewhere in Holland where they do ceremonie's every now and then. Then he told me that he just had left a clinic and had to move to another one in about 2 month's, because his psychiater told him that he had a psychosis and his parents didn't want him to live at home anymore. Ah, i thought. So i where right, am i? Then he continued, and told me, that the psychosis thing, was all bullshit, he just looked different on reality because he was a sjaman and it was because of the ritual he had done one year ago. And he was fine with it and didn't believe he needed any help.

When we arrived, i lighted a joint and handled some puffs to him. And this was when it got really weird. He started to laugh every now and then, but very loud and without a proper reason. I tried to have a conversation, but it became not possible at all. I could see he really wanted to talk, but it was like if he was distracted from everything what was going on inside his head. He repeatedly said SHIT MAN, SHIT, SHIT MAN. It was as if his logical mind, totally shutted down. He really started to look like a ghost, and it made me even afraid. I wish i dared to ask back the acid, because i can imagine that if he took some, it would or could make him totally insane. It really scared me, because i where alone with him in the middle of nowhere, and i constantly felt a sort of thread. I really don't know why, i never am afraid of people attacking me or anything like that, but today i did. I think it must be because i where pretty well aware of the fact that he had NO CONTROL about his own behavior or what so ever. So i decided to take him back to where i picked him up, and i went go home. I was releaved when he was gone, but i am still a bit worried about the acid i gave him and feel a enormous sorry for this guy.

Now alright, this is a long long story. But i never have known many psychonauts in real life, and from those i have know, i already met two people before him, who had gone crazy like this. From one of these two it was no wonder, because he got shot by a police officer while he was on acid. And since then, it went worse and worse with this guy. But all three of them, acted in the same way. Laughing about nothing(but scarry). Couldn't talk straight anymore, or used pretty strange words. The guy from today, was even talking to him self, and if i asked if there was anything. He told me that he was talking to God and some other things which i couldn't grasp.

So now i am wondering, did anyone of you guys ever have seen this happen to anyone? Or are there people over here, who have seen it happen to even more then one? Don't you guys think, that these sorts of problems are in the end a HUGE problem for every psychonaut? isn't it something to worry about it. I mean, i have spoken to many people who never used entheogen's, and this is where they actually are afraid of.

I mean, i really do feel said for this guy i met today, and the others that i have see going made.

So please, tell me. What are your thoughts......

Greets,
Mysticwarrior.

 

[BrainEater]

psychadelics can open the realm to the god within. but maybe they can also open the realm to the god without. so that's a little problem, but the point is we probably should be mentally and physically sane if we want to open to this realm.

if we weren't aware of such a realm opening or even understanding the term god in this context then it surely "can" make you insane. or in other words you would get the mental power to make yourself insane by consuming psychadelic drugs.

they are powerful tools and when treated with not enough respect harm can be done. i think respect for yourself and for the experience you would have is essential when having an encounter with strong psychadelic drugs.

anyways the word "god" is one of the most misinterpreted and abused words out there and if someone tells you about god or that he speaks with god or so, the first thing which you probably should do is to be skeptical and alert and not believe blindly what such a person would say.

peace

 

[IJesusChrist]

What happens is people's minds can't interpret what they envision in a trip - their mind turns to the only plausible explanation at the time : God.

You start hearing voices in your head, and you forget that it's the acid, or the shrooms, and you think something else is channeling through you. This can be ok, but when you come down, and you hear a voice again - and you reference it to God this is when danger begins.

I had a very, very good friend succumb to psychosis, he had done mushrooms for the first time and we let him out of the car. He kind of gave me the saddest look in the world, and the faintest bye. I hadn't gone with him becuase he said he was coming down, and he'd be fine (I hadn't taken mushrooms at this time so I was also unaware of what was happening in his head) and he sat in his back yard, and got lost, and "turned into a bear"

A few weeks later he started acting very abnormal, grabbing things in the air that weren't there... wearing sun glasses in class rooms, walking around for no reason while the teachers talking ... He's ok now, he's on medication and he's the good ole friend I know. Although I havn't seen him too much.

I am also proof that it can happen... If don't believe my stories or don't feel like I have truly experience psychosis, so be it, but I was very very lost for a year, and and fortunately for me and all my loved one's I had enough will to make it out.

It's an odd thing... Psychosis is like confidence without any real purpose. It places you on a pedestal, above and beyond everyone else.

 

[user_1919]

I have not read all posts, but personally, I think they are also seeing God. I think it is just we are viewing this individual under certain cultural interpretations. God to me exists outside this. This is essentially the shaman. A mad man. Sometimes going that deep, is not well for a person as they get trapped between the God realm and the cultural operating system. It becomes a life devotion and decision. To stay without cultural restrictions, or to let the mind head down the rabbit hole, and be judged harshly by the people still in the matrix. I don't agree with getting this individual substances, as I believe anyone who wants something needs to go get it themselves. If he wants to walk the path, let me, just don't intercept. Hope this helps.

peace, love, light & unity!

 

[st.bot.32]

I'd have to disagree to a certain degree, about the shaman thing.. a shaman is someone who can walk the halls of chapel perilous and come back relatively sane, and bring what s/he has learned from the experience to others. getting lost in chapel perilous.. that's something else, that's getting lost in a singular belief--one's personal delusions.. a road that leads to alienation from other human beings, depression or worse.. its an obscuring of clarity, not a path to clarity. it comes from not questioning one's own thought processes in a critical manner

Psychosis is like confidence without any real purpose. It places you on a pedestal, above and beyond everyone else.

Interesting.. i tend to see it as a lack of honest self-analysis and critical thinking ability, but that would be another side of the same coin. When you talk about a pedestal I agree.. there is a kind of empowerment to believing you are the only being in the world who is privy to Truth. Rational thought is the exact opposite.. it requires hard work and letting go of the ego, honest self-examination of why one is emotionally attached to one's beliefs.. because emotions so frequently are a reactionary defense mechanism that prevents one or scares one from asking the real questions.. making people so easy to control and to be manipulated.

i think in the end, the proof is in the pudding. critical thinking and asking the honest questions might be painful at the time, but in the end this path leads to enlightenment and absolute tranquility, not the products of an unkempt mind:
fear, paranoia and delusion. somehow it's almost like psychedelics follow the basic rule of computer information systems: GIGO

 

[mysticwarrior]

it comes from not questioning one's own thought processes in a critical manner

That's what i thought. The guy i meet, couldn't think critical or logical. It also happend to the other guys i knew. They all started to believe there own fairytale, and everyone who tried to warn them all got a punch in there face.

 

[user_1919]

 

[st.bot.32]

That's what i thought. The guy i meet, couldn't think critical or logical. It also happend to the other guys i knew. They all started to believe there own fairytale, and everyone who tried to warn them all got a punch in there face.

Never argue with a fundamentalist religion whether it is made of one or of a hundred..

I guess it's not even so much about belief (I like dabbling with belief and some esoterica myself), as just getting sucked into one mode of belief so strongly that it overtakes you and consumes your reality.. to the point that you might even think the rest of the world is actually in denial of the Truth you possess. then you really are lost in the chapel.

Anyway I've noticed much of the same things as you, just really conveying my observations of others. Funny how proper use of psychedelics leads to such amazingly healing, creative, useful and positive things.. while alienating yourself just seems to reinforce an almost defeatist brand of pessimism

I actually think this really has very little to do with psychedelics per se. I know plenty of people who have gotten sucked into cults of religion or personality without ever touching drugs. Perhaps psychedelics just amplify the problem

 

[mysticwarrior]

Thanks user_1919 I think it is a pretty interesting subject.

Anyway, this schizofrenic state of mind, is not a state of mind what is useful in our society, because it can be pretty destructive. I think for that reason, it's important that you keep at least a little logic and skeptic if you use entheogens. Else you can lose yourself easily.

 

[Bastiaan]

I know a guy who also had a psychotic episode.
What I recognize from these posts is that he also did not think critical and tended to live very much in his own fantasy world.
The guy has a good heart and seems quite sensitive, yet also overconfident/illusioned.
Traumatic experiences perhaps.
'Distorted' self-image and interpretation, I don't know how else to describe it.
Perhaps his way of dealing with this bs world I thought, but denying or looking the other way isn't going to do much good of course.
You'll bump your head in the end.
Then again, this is what most people are doing (in another way, hiding/running from something else) even though they have been conditioned and environmentally influenced (and continue o be) to do so ofc.

 

[mysticwarrior]

What I recognize from these posts is that he also did not think critical and tended to live very much in his own fantasy world.

Do you know what sorts of things he did believe?

 

[st.bot.32]

Perhaps his way of dealing with this bs world

nice one.. i think at heart that's a lot of what it is. and the world becomes even harder to deal with the more you hide from it. myself i had a lot of difficulty integrating with this reality and spent a good chunk of my life growing up in a delusional bubble

anyway i don't think anyone is really immune, some of us for whatever reasons just get a bit more lost than others. hopefully it's just temporary and we find our way to a more fulfilling place eventually

 

[mysticwarrior]

anyway i don't think anyone is really immune, some of us for whatever reasons just get a bit more lost than others. hopefully it's just temporary and we find our way to a more fulfilling place eventually

That's one of the reason's why i started this topic. Some psychonauts would say, these guys where already mentally ill and it is there own fault. And of course it is there own fault. But like you said, i really believe it can happen to everyone.

 

[magickmumu]

I have seen it happen, but the people who did have a psychosis didn't do psychedelics and where not psychonauts.
I have known a guy who was schizophrenic. This guy told me he had done a lot of acid in the past.

Someone I know did have a psychosis. , he stopped smoking weed. His doctor prescribed him saint john's worth . He seems to do okay at the moment. He doesn't take medication.

 

[Bastiaan]

Do you know what sorts of things he did believe?

Well, he had always been a little weird in the sense that when I talked to him about certain things of reality that weren't widely perceived he seemed to understand and agree (everything in his communication made this seem so and it seemed completely sincere), but when he talked back about it it never made any sense and it seemed as if he didn't understand.
I.e. when I brought up some people claimed chemtrails from planes were a reality to purposely poision the population, not really taking in an opinion he'd not only take it as a reality but he'd take it to a whole new level involving e.t.'s and a whole lot of other strange stuff.
There really didn't seem to be a limit to it.
He said some weird things at times, like he'd believe anything (so bizare was everything to him?).

Apart from this he was an outgoing fun loving guy and very responsible.
He also saw some things that many others don't, like one time he talked about his little brother aspired to join the military and how he gave his utter most disaproval and explained about what this institution actually was and told him he should do whatever he can't resist. He seemed really bothered by the whole situation being that people couldn't see things like this for what they were.

When in his psychosis however it was more extreme, he talked about the weirdest things, like some people weren't actually real, the skies were warping in colors and nobody seemed to notice, aliens landed here and there, the strangest things.

 

[st.bot.32]

i guess for me the real question would be, is he making his own heaven or is he making his own hell... because in my experience, so frequently these kinds of things lead to psychological hell. (nonstop cognitive dissonance? dunno)

 

[user_1919]

I don't think it is psychosis that is the problem, I think it is the way our society deals with it. The way they deal with it leads into this irrational behaviour and illogical thought process.

 

[IJesusChrist]

You may see that society makes a psychosis, a psychotic person a danger, a neusance.

I see Terrance McKenna's words as something even possibly more dangerous (although that may not be the case). Enforcinging the fact that a psychotic person is listening to the true God, and that he/she is almost of a divine nature only encourages this extreme sense of confidence.

What happens under psychosis in my memory is that one LEANRS that he/she is always correct. Therefore, any arguement is laughable if it is in disagreement with the psychotic. My memory serves me I was not listening to God, I was listening to how everything HAD to be, that everything was so simple, and every situation, if analyzed enough, would have my own predicted outcome - which often enough was true that it reciprocated the problem.

The thing is, when one is in psychosis, everything, and every situation only increases that fact that the person is consistently correct. It's as if the person is never wrong, and knows he/she is never wrong, so anything that is done was always going to be that way... I'm losing my point in trying to analyze this, but I hope you're getting what I'm saying.

The fact is when I was in my psychotic state, it didn't matter what anyone else said, because what they said or did was either already determined by me, that I knew what they were going to say, or that what was happening was simply the way it was always going to happen... So if I am wrong, I learn that I was in fact correct -

sigh, impossible to explain psychosis. Just think this: Dehuminization, seperation of one's consciousness from reality, like one's head is tangent to the actual reality, but in a sense "above" it.

Jeez this is hard. :roll:

 

[mysticwarrior]

i guess for me the real question would be, is he making his own heaven or is he making his own hell... because in my experience, so frequently these kinds of things lead to psychological hell. (nonstop cognitive dissonance? dunno)

It indeed looks like if they are starting to create there own reality, the example bastiaan gives shows this clearly. And this is what i also saw by the other three i did know.

I think there are borders in our western mind, and everyone knows conscious or unconscious, that if you cross to much of these borders, you will get conflicts with our collective western society.

Because of that i can imagine, some teenager frustrated about everything that is wrong. Then meets with entheogen's and start to dislike the current western society. Slowly more and more borders get crossed and slowly they start to change or tune out of our western collective mind. You can even feel when these people are fading away. Only the body is left, they act, respond, behave in away that is even dangerous. Think about walking trough traffic etc, then i think these people do have a great risk of being a victim of a accident.

I have seen it happen, but the people who did have a psychosis didn't do psychedelics and where not psychonauts.
I have known a guy who was schizophrenic. This guy told me he had done a lot of acid in the past.

It's clear that no drugs have to be involved, i mean if it are there own thoughts that are creating there own reality, then i think entheogen's are a catalyst for creating there own reality.

I don't think it is psychosis that is the problem, I think it is the way our society deals with it. The way they deal with it leads into this irrational behaviour and illogical thought process.

I also ones thought like that, but now i really do know better. These people are not able anymore to care for them self's. And of course it has a lot to do with our society and i agree that we helping them in a wrong, but still. But this is what we do with psychical disorders in general. The guy i meet yesterday, it was really scary. He had no control or what so ever.

But yeah, we should start taking care about people who are in psychological crisses. We need to get rid of psychiatry as a standard way to help people. I believe it is there outlook on reality what is there problem. They interpret reality in a way it conflicts. If we knew a way, to show them this. And guide them instead of drug them, maybe then we can easily help this people.

The thing is, when one is in psychosis, everything, and every situation only increases that fact that the person is consistently correct. It's as if the person is never wrong, and knows he/she is never wrong, so anything that is done was always going to be that way... I'm losing my point in trying to analyze this, but I hope you're getting what I'm saying.

You mean, you just reject the normal thoughts and start deciding for yourself what's right and wrong. And then find out, that you can be always right. As long as you fantasy is creative enough?

 

[mysticwarrior]

Please IJesusChrist, explain more about your experience. I really am interested, and want to know more about how this state of mind appears in some of people.

Do you think if you had lived in other times, and in a more natural way, like living in the forrests, be less a problem? Or do you believe it is really a sickness?

Just curious.