Why do we have this intelligence?

[BrainEater]

another point for the language barrier in the verbal war...

ijc i think you are just a bit bigheaded. controlling your own genes means being evolution. without change in the genes evolution does not take place. so if i alter my genes by vibrating different codes/possibilities in my being and if such changes benefit me (and/or others??), i suppose therefore i am evolution. i can however also see how different dogmas about evolution and religion can narrow one's perspectives about those ideas. so evolution is always the big picture: you in comparison to all other beings? and/or vice versa?

 

[waygie]

You are not open to my discussion.

If you are genetically engineering your babies the reason you are doing that is because of evolution, not the other way around!

There is NO way I can explain this in words to be honest, you will just have to learn on your own, or stay in your half lit room. You will either SEE the big picture in this or you won't. I cannot explain it, atleast not now in this present state.

Evolution is deterministic. If you understand that, atleast, you will be close.

Okay I'm starting to get it now

it's funny because of how similar it is to the equations thing. Everything is in 1 set path.... Well at least well get the illusion of controlling evolution which is better than what we have now

 

[IJesusChrist]

Are you really getting it or just trying to make me happy, .

I don't know how to describe it in words, but evolution is far vaster than biology - it is a very, very complex thing.

And brain eater, you think I'M BIG HEADED? :roll:

 

[waygie]

well you tell me, does it relate to the what i was saying in the equations thread?

you're (i think) saying all change is evolution and evoltuion is only headed in 1 direction. even so called set backs are progress that we (our DNA: our deepest sub conscious) will learn from. even if we (people) dont realize it

but still...saying mental (or otherwise) genetic manupilation isnt controlling evoltuion, is saying that we have zero free will because all of out actions where always going to happen and we were always going to do them in the exact same way
it's unhealthy to live like that, it will end up with you doing nothing and losing motivation to do anything because everything is on a set path. speaking evoltuionally (which, itself, is a part of that grand set path) it would also be unleathy to think like that. doing so would make you lose any and all motivation to evolve yourself....wait.. that sounds familiar :mrgreen: (human race)

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yes, from deterministic aspect it was always going to happen that way.

But IF the universe is not deterministic, evolution cannot be controlled. Evolution is what brought us this to this intelligent state - therefore within evolution we are able to manipulate our genes. Evolution has allowed us to be intelligent enough to do so - when we manipulate our genes, and our children are an image of our wants - our conscious thoughts - it may seem like we are steering evolution. But, the choice to change your childs DNA is an OUTCOME of evolution. What you choose your child's DNA to be is tied with evolutionary thought - the thought that was brought by evolution.

Here's a comparison. To be able to control evolution you would need to not be an evolved organism, and then create a genetic machine. I.E. as an evolved organism that has ancestors that have undergone evolution, you will continually be trapped by evolution.

I think your definition and my definition of evolution are different. I am looking at the end result, and you may be looking at the present.

 

[Psychoid]

I never use sunscreen and spend a lot of time in the sun. This alters my genes and because of that my kids will be more resistant to the sun.

THAT is evolution.

What's so complicated?

Ever heard of Galapagos islands?

 

[waygie]

What's so complicated?

well this is a lot different. i'm saying society (thus psychology) and not nature effect evolution...and even the skin thing kinda goes against the current theory on evolution. that your kid gets the genes you were born with. survival of the fittest (and not survival for what we subconsciously strive for)

 

[waygie]

Yes, from deterministic aspect it was always going to happen that way.

But IF the universe is not deterministic, evolution cannot be controlled. Evolution is what brought us this to this intelligent state - therefore within evolution we are able to manipulate our genes. Evolution has allowed us to be intelligent enough to do so - when we manipulate our genes, and our children are an image of our wants - our conscious thoughts - it may seem like we are steering evolution. But, the choice to change your childs DNA is an OUTCOME of evolution. What you choose your child's DNA to be is tied with evolutionary thought - the thought that was brought by evolution.

Here's a comparison. To be able to control evolution you would need to not be an evolved organism, and then create a genetic machine. I.E. as an evolved organism that has ancestors that have undergone evolution, you will continually be trapped by evolution.

I think your definition and my definition of evolution are different. I am looking at the end result, and you may be looking at the present.

wow i don't get how you're just seeing half the truth like that. but changing your childs dan isn't the goal, is just a sideeffect. changing YOUR DNA is the goal. and more of me needing repeating myself...
yes evolution has brought us to the point where we can now consciously manipulate our genes (akfuckinga "we are passed subconscious genetic evolution....") it's like the all seeing eye: all that building to get to a point of equinox into light. but where the fuck do you get. think for yourself and not a fucking text book. listen: WE ARE PASSED GENETIC EVOLUTION AND ONTO CONSCIOUS EVOLUTION. so, yes, the denominator of evolution still exists. but we've hit a point where humans have the ability to push a snowball down a hill

and you're still stuck on machines doing it. you're so fucking stupid. but even with machines what makes you think we wont have the tech to give humans wings and muscles strong enough to fly? we have the power to do things we DNA that nature couldn't


"ancestors that have undergone evolution, you will continually be trapped by evolution." okay, what ancestor has done what we have? what the fuck makes you think you know what we *will* do?

i'm just done arguing with you. you're stupid.

 

[ararat]

you're so fucking stupid. [...]
i'm just done arguing with you. you're stupid.

stop that. nice to see you are sharing your opinion, but your insults are not needed, wanted nor asked for on here. if you continue like this I might even consider a temporary ban.

 

[EndlessEntity]

even if hes right and we're into "conscious evolution" which is what control of kundalini energy is supposed to catalyze
even if that is so
we will never be passed subconscious evolution that is a constant variable of time.
your both at eachother's throats for broader or narrower opinions on definition of evolution.
fellow psychonauts should be uniting not calling eachother fucking stupid because he has an idea

and doesn't saying "omg i MUST repeat myself!!@!" doesnt that sound a wee bit pompous? if your excited about your view or even if your adamant about it, i would think you would LOVE to repeat your opinion and listen to yourself talk, not trying to insult but thats how most people are.

so hug and make friends.
maybe have yourself a little subconscious psychedelic exploration and we can all be a little more tolerant of others' opinions

 

[IJesusChrist]

I never use sunscreen and spend a lot of time in the sun. This alters my genes and because of that my kids will be more resistant to the sun.

THAT is evolution.

What's so complicated?

Ever heard of Galapagos islands?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Seriously, has anybody taken an introductory course in biology?

 

[polska224]

This conversation is too funny, i just need to join in.

Evolution is the process where the weak are destroyed so the strong survive and continue on to reproduce. For example, in a black and white environment, there is a species of moth that is green. All of the sudden, one of the green moths gives birth to a black and white moth. Obviously, this mutation gives this moth better camouflage and it can hide from predators better. The predators eat more of the green moths rather than the black and white moths because they are more visible. The moths with the gene for 'greeness' have been all killed off. All that are left are the black and white moths, which have EVOLVED to their surroundings.

In simpler terms, evolution is the destruction of a species that is less adapted to its environment and the encouragement of another species who is more adapted to it environment.

 

[EndlessEntity]

^ close but no cigar
one moth can't evolve, evolution takes place over long periods of time one moth can however ADAPT to its surroundings
and if the strongest are the ones who survive this doesnt completely dictate evolution although it attributes to it, this process is called Natural Selection which is a variable of evolution, not evolution itself.

 

[polska224]

When I said "this moth" i meant the species of moth as a whole. My mistake.

 

[waygie]

Are you fucking kidding me?

Seriously, has anybody taken an introductory course in biology?

yea i said how it's contradictory to the common belief....but how do you explain the difference in skin color between the nations?
most 3rd world countries are dark. lack of civilization does kind of directly correlate to more sun (as sad as it is in some cases)

 

[waygie]

I AM SAYING EVOLUTION IS A LOT MORE THAN SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST

it really sucks how my whole argument backing it up just goes right over your heads and as soon as you hear evolution you just think about what you already know

 

[EndlessEntity]

your superiority complex isn't healthy

 

[Psyolopher]

lol this thread is old, and abit embarrasing. for my part!
Havent even read all of it.

oh well, here we go.

 

[Crimzen]

yea i said how it's contradictory to the common belief....but how do you explain the difference in skin color between the nations?
most 3rd world countries are dark. lack of civilization does kind of directly correlate to more sun (as sad as it is in some cases)

WOW
.....
really?
hahaha...i mean...wow

lets start with....
you know 'white people' werent always the richest people around right?

"lack of civilization" (and therefore spending more time in the sun?) doesnt have near as much to do with it as location in the world did

i mean theres been 'white people' and 'black people' since before there was a capitalist society
in fact i'd go so far as to say 'black people' for a long while were more 'civilized' than white people

what youre saying makes no sense

 

[Please Stop It Now]

Lizards Rapidly Evolve After Introduction to Island
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html