Why do we have this intelligence?
- Auteur de la discussion Psyolopher
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Psyolopher
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Quite an interesting read, your two previous posts.GOD a dit:
First i'd like to say; BUT WHY?
(Kinda goes round n round n round; WHY? WHY? WHY WHY?)
Second, well our race coined the term intelligence, so to us we must be.
Why are we in the soup of encouraged intelligent life then?
Any quick hypothesis? or theories for dummies?
It could still be some creature(From any weird dimension or what ever.) who has the remote to all of this. Or the intention.
God maybe? (well i dont think so, but surely someone does.)
Some weird illuminati reptilian?
Aliens with big huge black eyes that observe us, like lab rats....?!?
Something we cant imagine/understand?
I was hoping for something that can be proved to some extent.
My two cents....
I don't think there is a significant reason for our intelligence.
I simply think we are ‘random’ fluke of nature - a planet capable of bearing life, sustaining an entity incapable of comprehending it.
To me, the simplest way to think of it is to consider life we have the power to observe, and what we know of its development. I dunno; I guess everyone would come to their own conclusions - but when I look at a Petri dish full of bacteria…It kinda just ’makes sense’ to me. In my mind, there doesn’t seem a whole lot of difference between that small Petri dish, and our speck of a planet. Both simply started out as cells growing uncontrollably in the presence of accommodating circumstance - adhering to the rules and regulations of ’life’, without purpose or agenda.
Before, after billions of years, we happened to reach a stage in our evolution where we are granted the beautiful gifts of thought, reasoning, emotion and philosophy, and now have no idea what to do with them! =P
Many of my Christian friends use the same argument. They scoff sarcastically at my open-minded approach to the theory of evolution, or indeed; any theory that does not begin with an omnipotent creator.
How can the universe…earth…life in general - all be one big coincidence? How is it that our planet is in the exact perfect position to sustain life. How could our anatomy be the result of extreme chance and evolution, when the alveoli in our lungs are so minute in design and detail, that if you were to take each one individually and stand them end on end next to each other, they could stretch out to reach the moon and back?
How can something as complex as life - relying on so many millions of circumstantial chance occurrences to develop - be anything BUT the result of some divine power, plan or creation?
I usually reply with: “How can it NOT be?”
We are on one of a handful of planets, rotating around one star.....
There are billions of stars in our galaxy, and there are billions of galaxies in the universe....
In this all but unfathomable number lies the justification for my answer........
No.
It is NOT all that hard to believe that this freak occurrence - this life - came about by chance.....
Considering this: the general agreement is that the universe is approximately 60 billion years old...whether this is true or false is irrelevant. If we then times that 60 billion, by the unfathomable number of billions of planets, rotating around the billions of stars, within each one of the billions of galaxies in our universe....
And ponder this unfathomable numer:
Is it really so hard to believe that every now and then, chance aligns in absolute perfection, and the development of life begins?
It's not that hard to believe that there is a planet so perfectly ideal for life to occur, because over that 60 billion years, within those billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars, around which float billions of planets ...that one in an x billion times by x billion chance of a habitable planet bearing life had to occur sooner or later.
It's the law of averages.....
When something has a chance to happen in that many places, over that amount of time, it's going to happen perfectly sooner or later.....
It seems perfectly acceptable then; in light of this gloomy, insignificant reality, that we - the inhabitants of a freak one in x billion times by x billion fluke - create gods and afterlives to deal with our own, feckless and insignificant existence. It is a defense mechanism to lighten the weight of such crippling hopelessness - agoraphobia epitomized - when the burden of such crippling insignificance would otherwise be too much to bear.
I believe life doesn't have a purpose. It is, because it simply could be - because there was suddenly a habitat capable of sustaining it, it developed, without hope nor agenda.
Bacteria does not stop in the early stages of development and ponder it's purpose...it grows because the blueprints of life tell it to grow - to develop.
We have developed, we have adapted - and are now at a stage of life, capable of reflecting and pondering such things; but never capable of comprehending the unfathomable depths of our own universe. In the blink of an eye, our existence will have passed on, and millions of other 'fluke occurrences' will have popped up, all over the universe, to start fresh and create their own false gods and depressing theories….....
I don't think there is a significant reason for our intelligence.
I simply think we are ‘random’ fluke of nature - a planet capable of bearing life, sustaining an entity incapable of comprehending it.
To me, the simplest way to think of it is to consider life we have the power to observe, and what we know of its development. I dunno; I guess everyone would come to their own conclusions - but when I look at a Petri dish full of bacteria…It kinda just ’makes sense’ to me. In my mind, there doesn’t seem a whole lot of difference between that small Petri dish, and our speck of a planet. Both simply started out as cells growing uncontrollably in the presence of accommodating circumstance - adhering to the rules and regulations of ’life’, without purpose or agenda.
Before, after billions of years, we happened to reach a stage in our evolution where we are granted the beautiful gifts of thought, reasoning, emotion and philosophy, and now have no idea what to do with them! =P
Many of my Christian friends use the same argument. They scoff sarcastically at my open-minded approach to the theory of evolution, or indeed; any theory that does not begin with an omnipotent creator.
How can the universe…earth…life in general - all be one big coincidence? How is it that our planet is in the exact perfect position to sustain life. How could our anatomy be the result of extreme chance and evolution, when the alveoli in our lungs are so minute in design and detail, that if you were to take each one individually and stand them end on end next to each other, they could stretch out to reach the moon and back?
How can something as complex as life - relying on so many millions of circumstantial chance occurrences to develop - be anything BUT the result of some divine power, plan or creation?
I usually reply with: “How can it NOT be?”
We are on one of a handful of planets, rotating around one star.....
There are billions of stars in our galaxy, and there are billions of galaxies in the universe....
In this all but unfathomable number lies the justification for my answer........
No.
It is NOT all that hard to believe that this freak occurrence - this life - came about by chance.....
Considering this: the general agreement is that the universe is approximately 60 billion years old...whether this is true or false is irrelevant. If we then times that 60 billion, by the unfathomable number of billions of planets, rotating around the billions of stars, within each one of the billions of galaxies in our universe....
And ponder this unfathomable numer:
Is it really so hard to believe that every now and then, chance aligns in absolute perfection, and the development of life begins?
It's not that hard to believe that there is a planet so perfectly ideal for life to occur, because over that 60 billion years, within those billions of galaxies, each containing billions of stars, around which float billions of planets ...that one in an x billion times by x billion chance of a habitable planet bearing life had to occur sooner or later.
It's the law of averages.....
When something has a chance to happen in that many places, over that amount of time, it's going to happen perfectly sooner or later.....
It seems perfectly acceptable then; in light of this gloomy, insignificant reality, that we - the inhabitants of a freak one in x billion times by x billion fluke - create gods and afterlives to deal with our own, feckless and insignificant existence. It is a defense mechanism to lighten the weight of such crippling hopelessness - agoraphobia epitomized - when the burden of such crippling insignificance would otherwise be too much to bear.
I believe life doesn't have a purpose. It is, because it simply could be - because there was suddenly a habitat capable of sustaining it, it developed, without hope nor agenda.
Bacteria does not stop in the early stages of development and ponder it's purpose...it grows because the blueprints of life tell it to grow - to develop.
We have developed, we have adapted - and are now at a stage of life, capable of reflecting and pondering such things; but never capable of comprehending the unfathomable depths of our own universe. In the blink of an eye, our existence will have passed on, and millions of other 'fluke occurrences' will have popped up, all over the universe, to start fresh and create their own false gods and depressing theories….....
IJesusChrist
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I agree except there universe is about 14 billion years old, not 60.
... The chance for life is the chance for water in great quantity on a planet, multiplied by the chance for that planet to be near the sun enough for liquid water.
the probability is small however...
... The chance for life is the chance for water in great quantity on a planet, multiplied by the chance for that planet to be near the sun enough for liquid water.
the probability is small however...
Ahh, thanks for the correction.
I knew I should have doublechecked before posting :roll: . I remember hearing the figure '60 billion years' sometime during high school and always wondered if it was accurate, but it reaaally couldn't be bothered last night haha.
I knew I should have doublechecked before posting :roll: . I remember hearing the figure '60 billion years' sometime during high school and always wondered if it was accurate, but it reaaally couldn't be bothered last night haha.
waygie
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i cant really answer why we are as smart as we are but we are definitely the smartest thing on the planet. theres a reason why we rule the world without being the strongest/naturally deadliest species
when it comes to our growth i think we are far beyond genetic evoltuion. we aint dying. survival of the fittest is nothing compared to the animal kingdom
i think we are now to the point of mental evolution. we changed so much becoming adults (consciousness/conscious control wise) but we just stopped growing
i can make myself feel like i'm on valium naturally. it's a hassle to do it (and hard to find motivation) but it's a hassle for a baby to walk at fist. but society demands it and they eventually do
society doesnt demand that we learn to control the chemicals in my body, so we dont. thats why evoltuion will no longer be a subconscious process
we need controlling ourselves second handedly and get to the source. the second hand path is a lot easier though so we dont
when it comes to our growth i think we are far beyond genetic evoltuion. we aint dying. survival of the fittest is nothing compared to the animal kingdom
i think we are now to the point of mental evolution. we changed so much becoming adults (consciousness/conscious control wise) but we just stopped growing
i can make myself feel like i'm on valium naturally. it's a hassle to do it (and hard to find motivation) but it's a hassle for a baby to walk at fist. but society demands it and they eventually do
society doesnt demand that we learn to control the chemicals in my body, so we dont. thats why evoltuion will no longer be a subconscious process
we need controlling ourselves second handedly and get to the source. the second hand path is a lot easier though so we dont
IJesusChrist
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We still do not grasp fully evolution, so you to say we are going to control it in some way, I must disagree.
I think you are also putting us on a pedestal. We are not evolving ourselves, even though it may seem like we are consciously changing our ways of life - evolution is always above and beyond us. We cannot control evolution, it will always be pulling the strings. If you cannot see that now, you will eventually (hopefully).
I think you are also putting us on a pedestal. We are not evolving ourselves, even though it may seem like we are consciously changing our ways of life - evolution is always above and beyond us. We cannot control evolution, it will always be pulling the strings. If you cannot see that now, you will eventually (hopefully).
waygie
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yeah we're definitely not evolving ourselves. i said we are passed genetic evoltion (survival of the fittest isnt literal anymore) and the next stage would be conscious mental evolution...and i also said that no one is doing the mental evolution. we're not evolving ourselves... doesnt mean we cant
we have limited self awareness. our self awareness has so many roots in the outside world it can barely be called "self" (one, non freudian, version of the word ego. we get the 'ego' from outside sources) we're too focused on the outside world. (not saying people should go live in solitude for the rest of their lives. people are very usefull) when we want to make ourselves feel better, we watch tv, we do drugs, we gain that feeling secondhandedly through the outside world
if i want to dialate my eyes i do the stomach feeling. i do it secondhandedly. if i had a higher sensitivity to my inner senses i'd be able to find out how it feels to directly make my pupils bigger. if i pay attention to how i feel when i'm on certain drugs(or just when i'm especially happy) i can recreate a mild version the feeling. i can make it stronger within 30 mins. now what if i did it daily for 6 months? how strong do you think i'd be able to get it? thizz my face of while being sober lol
i think thats what a 'demigod' is
i'm about to go to practice then i'll reply to the equations thread. i think i know what i'll say
we have limited self awareness. our self awareness has so many roots in the outside world it can barely be called "self" (one, non freudian, version of the word ego. we get the 'ego' from outside sources) we're too focused on the outside world. (not saying people should go live in solitude for the rest of their lives. people are very usefull) when we want to make ourselves feel better, we watch tv, we do drugs, we gain that feeling secondhandedly through the outside world
if i want to dialate my eyes i do the stomach feeling. i do it secondhandedly. if i had a higher sensitivity to my inner senses i'd be able to find out how it feels to directly make my pupils bigger. if i pay attention to how i feel when i'm on certain drugs(or just when i'm especially happy) i can recreate a mild version the feeling. i can make it stronger within 30 mins. now what if i did it daily for 6 months? how strong do you think i'd be able to get it? thizz my face of while being sober lol
i think thats what a 'demigod' is
i'm about to go to practice then i'll reply to the equations thread. i think i know what i'll say
IJesusChrist
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Your environment does not evolve you, like you are suggesting. Living in a world where intellectuals and mental capacities reign does not mean people will become smarter and smarter. Your children, your children's children and so on, will not be smarter than you because they have evolved that way. Your children will have a better chance of living if they are intelligent. If they aren't, which has some probability (not basing this on you, just probability), then they will have less a chance to thrive in the future environment.
Offspring do not change due to the environment, the environment just decides and permits offspring to live.
We may become more intelligent but this is not due to the fact of consciously evolving due to the future's possibilties.
BEYOND that...
When we change our DNA - genetic manipulation - we are not controlling evolution... I hope you can see that.
Offspring do not change due to the environment, the environment just decides and permits offspring to live.
We may become more intelligent but this is not due to the fact of consciously evolving due to the future's possibilties.
BEYOND that...
When we change our DNA - genetic manipulation - we are not controlling evolution... I hope you can see that.
waygie
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For some reason my post didn't postbut here's a short version
you change your genes subconsciously(that is a fact) your environment greatly effects your subconscious (another fact) so your environment effects your DNA. and your DNA effects your child
Simple logic that textbooks don't teach you. One reason why I should be getting paid for this
you change your genes subconsciously(that is a fact) your environment greatly effects your subconscious (another fact) so your environment effects your DNA. and your DNA effects your child
Simple logic that textbooks don't teach you. One reason why I should be getting paid for this
BrainEater
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i think we have this intelligence because we are here to learn. so we can use it as a tool for accomplishing that mission.
IJesusChrist
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Please, if you could link me to some proof that you can subconsciously change your DNA I would be very appreciative. I have always wondered that.
But again, you are still not seeing evolution. Even if you can change your DNA CONSCIOUSLY, you are not controlling evolution.
But again, you are still not seeing evolution. Even if you can change your DNA CONSCIOUSLY, you are not controlling evolution.
waygie
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I'm not on my computer right now so I don't feel like looking but it'd what explains the difference between identical twins (such as one gay and one straight)IJesusChrist a dit:
why the fuck do I have yo repete myself a 1000 times? What does your DNA effect? It effects your gametes, it effects the 23 chromosomes you give your kid, and the 23 he gives his kid. IT EFFECTS EVOLUTION
IJesusChrist
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Waygie, if you believe you control evolution, you are not seeing the big picture.
Evolution is what drives you to change your genes. Evolution is what drives you to get on this computer. Evolution will ALWAYS be above you. YOU CANNOT CONTROL EVOLUTION.
Your attempt to CONTROL evolution simply shows your IGNORANCE to what evolution is. By you wanting to CONTROL evolution, evolution has thusly taken that path - to benefit those who want to CHANGE their genes.
Evolution is ALOT more complex than you fucking learned in 8th grade. It is survival of the fittest, if the fittest are genetically engineered, evolution favors the genetically engineered - You are not controlling evolution. Do not be so naïve.
Evolution is what drives you to change your genes. Evolution is what drives you to get on this computer. Evolution will ALWAYS be above you. YOU CANNOT CONTROL EVOLUTION.
Your attempt to CONTROL evolution simply shows your IGNORANCE to what evolution is. By you wanting to CONTROL evolution, evolution has thusly taken that path - to benefit those who want to CHANGE their genes.
Evolution is ALOT more complex than you fucking learned in 8th grade. It is survival of the fittest, if the fittest are genetically engineered, evolution favors the genetically engineered - You are not controlling evolution. Do not be so naïve.
EndlessEntity
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i agree with Ijesus' view of evolution but idk about bein so condescending about it lol
waygie
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wow. i'm getting tired of repeating myself. if you are genetically engineering your children, guess fucking what? you are directing evolution. it doesn't matter if it was always "meant to be" that way, the fact is it's changing from a genetic thing to a conscious thing...like i said before
i love how you morph what i say than look at half of it with a magnifying glass. i said we are at the point where survival of the fittest doesn't exist and we are at the point where we will evolve ourselves or not. it'll be up to you and your kids
i love how you morph what i say than look at half of it with a magnifying glass. i said we are at the point where survival of the fittest doesn't exist and we are at the point where we will evolve ourselves or not. it'll be up to you and your kids
IJesusChrist
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You are not open to my discussion.
If you are genetically engineering your babies the reason you are doing that is because of evolution, not the other way around!
There is NO way I can explain this in words to be honest, you will just have to learn on your own, or stay in your half lit room. You will either SEE the big picture in this or you won't. I cannot explain it, atleast not now in this present state.
Evolution is deterministic. If you understand that, atleast, you will be close.
If you are genetically engineering your babies the reason you are doing that is because of evolution, not the other way around!
There is NO way I can explain this in words to be honest, you will just have to learn on your own, or stay in your half lit room. You will either SEE the big picture in this or you won't. I cannot explain it, atleast not now in this present state.
Evolution is deterministic. If you understand that, atleast, you will be close.