Shrooms to be banned in the Netherlands

[Forkbender]

One sentence of Hirish Ballin (responsible minister) was: Shrooms may cause risks that can take one's life.

Where's the fundamental ground for this diagnose? It's yet again the bible that overpowers science.

First of all, I've never seen a risk taking someone's life. That's bullshit.

Second, I don't think it's the bible speaking, but a false sense of responsibility and an idea about risks that we should or should not be taking. The Christian government sees itself as responsible for the health of the population. It might be pastoral, but I wouldn't say that it is biblical.

Third, it is not the bible that overpowers science in this case. The scientific report said that there were some risks. I guess it is the evaluation of that risk that is the basis of the decision to ban mushrooms. Minister Ab Klink evaluates the risks in another way than the scientists. In my opinion both sides did not look at the experience itself, but only to the extreme possibilities. It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

@HC's point about the dangers of religion:
Fish don't know that they are in water. It is always easier to see the dangers of something that you yourself stay away from. Since these leaders are somewhat immersed in religious beliefs, they would never consider these dangerous. It would be like considering oxygen dangerous. They have never, however, used psychedelics (as far as I know), so they will form an opinion on these things more easily. In other words: people generally find it easier to judge something on which their life (in a broad sense, including beliefs) doesn't depend.

 

[Telico]

In other words: people generally find it easier to judge something on which their life (in a broad sense, including beliefs) doesn't depend.

Indeed. I actually tried to convince some friends of mine that shrooms aren't so harmful, but they are so embedded in their beliefs (bogus facts that they've learned about drugs) that they consistently don't want to think about it or read something about it; they just continue to believe that "drugs are bad" and then talk about something else. It's amazing how people are reluctant about drugs and do not want to think about it or read scientific reports about it. Education is a wonderful thing, but in some cases it makes people incredibly narrow-minded...

 

[Rutger]

Apart from the whole discussion, am I the only one who has doubts about this internet news ? Didn't we learn from experience not to believe everything that (internet) news has to say about this subject.

I cannot find anything else than these smaller websites that post this news. Don't you think its strange that bigger sites like Nu.nl did not post anything about this ? Also nothing can be found on the ANP website.

Furthermore I though that putting mushrooms on list II would be a legal problem that required a law change that took some time. This because the dried mushrooms are already on list I.

Don't get me wrong I think the bann will be there but not this soon. I estimate it to be implemented in about 2-3 months or so.

But then again maybe its just me ....

 

[maxfreakout]

there's still shrooms all over Amsterdam

 

[Pariah]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008 ... 228084.htm

Although I'm not so sure abc counts as a reliable source of information, but if I'm reading correctly, they say its not in effect yet...


didn't this get raised in october last year? im sure I can remeber something from the bbc about it

 

[Brugmansia]

It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

It has. These Christians who're now the majority of our government talk about norms & values and functioning well. Without giving detailed nuances. And now they haven't looked further, so it totally makes the circle complete.

The whole Christian tradition is build on controlling others. Especially parents who're in unable to control their childeren are taking benefits from this.

Despite the fact that D66 en VVD used to be part of our government with members who rejected shrooms, they never took actual action to supress shrooms.

It is kind of scary that if you get caught at home with your growbox, you're getting a penalty and visit from the police.

 

[GOD]

"Quote:Basically the argument is that the effects can be dangerous and unexpectedly terrifying, causing harm to the user and people around them."

"And this is something that should be taken seriously by both sides".

Dr.mengele turns over in his grave !!! What ???? We should take our own responsibilitys seriously ?................................. Why not just wait for 2012 ?

" I don't think it's the bible speaking,"

No its satan talking from behind bibles , korans , the internet , the fashist press and cheap and nasty provocative Dutch racist propoganda "films" .


"The scientific report said that there were some risks"

And most of those risks come because we were buisy playing Dr.mengele . To start a religeon you dont have to ask permision , you just meet and have sessions like the native American churches and the Ayahuasca churches . You start a traditon .

The people who are doing this claim to be christians but i dont think that anyone can be certain if that is their only motivation .

 

[HeartCore]

It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

Why don't you keep protecting the nazi's.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Apart from the whole discussion, am I the only one who has doubts about this internet news ? Didn't we learn from experience not to believe everything that (internet) news has to say about this subject.

I totally agree Rutger, and have been searching for a better source of information, but couldn't find it. This morning I found this however:
www.regering.nl

Seems to be pretty reliable.

For those who read Dutch, this item is pretty funny: http://sargasso.nl/archief/2008/04/26/jan-peter-en-de-paddos

 

[Forkbender]

The whole Christian tradition is build on controlling others.

I disagree.

 

[Rutger]

Hmm that is pretty reliable, unfortunately. Also seeing my boss on AT5 talking about the ban on shrooms was a good indication that it was for real.

The "Persbericht" says that its being recommended to be in effect in about 4 weeks. Maybe a good idea to do some last Red de paddo demo/ something.

Ok we lost (which was obvious from the beginning) but at least we should go out with a bang!

 

[Forkbender]

It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

Why don't you keep protecting the nazi's.

?!?

 

[Forkbender]

And most of those risks come because we were buisy playing Dr.mengele . To start a religeon you dont have to ask permision , you just meet and have sessions like the native American churches and the Ayahuasca churches . You start a traditon .

The people who are doing this claim to be christians but i dont think that anyone can be certain if that is their only motivation .

I agree.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Ok we lost (which was obvious from the beginning) but at least we should go out with a bang!

We didn't lose just now. We lost when these retards won the elections.

 

[adoma]

You know what we should do? all psychonauts in the netherlands should unite and create our own political party to beat the hell out of these autistic, ass-kissing harry potter figures :twisted:

I mean it only costs 100.000 euro to start a political party!
the solution is simple! :idea:

 

[Mycophile]

It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

Why don't you keep protecting the nazi's.

Forkbender might be wrong or right; I don't care. But your comparison to protecting the nazis is f*ckin' ridiculous.

Might be nice if you made your apologies about this one...

 

[Lion]

It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

Why don't you keep protecting the nazi's.

Forkbender might be wrong or right; I don't care. But your comparison to protecting the nazis is f*ckin' ridiculous.

Might be nice if you made your apologies about this one...

Second that. Nazi's are irrelevant..

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

uh-oh he said the n-word...

 

[BrainEater]

It is prejudiced in many ways, but I don't think this has a lot to do with their being Christian. I know a couple of atheists, for example, who think that psychedelics are dangerous and should be avoided or even forbidden.

Why don't you keep protecting the nazi's.

Forkbender might be wrong or right; I don't care. But your comparison to protecting the nazis is f*ckin' ridiculous.

Might be nice if you made your apologies about this one...

Second that. Nazi's are irrelevant..

that's wrong! the influence of the communist-nazis and the fascist-christians is almost everywhere to be seen!

 

[Lion]

hmm, didn't saw it that way..