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Our brains make decisions 10 seconds before we realize

Psychoid

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London, April 14 : A study has revealed that the brain makes decisions about 10 seconds prior to a person realises it. Experts involved in the study said that looking at brain activity while making a decision, they could predict the choices the subjects would make, before they realised that they had made a decision. Lead researcher John-Dylan Haynes, a neuroscientist at the Max Planck Institute for Human Cognitive and Brain Sciences in Leipzig, said that the new findings called into question the "consciousness" of decisions that people make, and might even challenge ideas as to how "free" people are to make a choice at a particular moment. "We think our decisions are conscious, but these data show that consciousness is just the tip of the iceberg," Nature magazine quoted him as saying. Terming the results "quite dramatic", Frank Tong of Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, said that 10 seconds is "a lifetime" in terms of brain activity. During the study, the brains of 14 volunteers were imaged as they performed a decision-making task. The subjects had two buttons before them, each to be operated by a different hand, which they could press when they felt the urge to. They were simultaneously shown a stream of letters, which appeared on a screen at half-second intervals. The volunteers had to remember which letter was showing when they decided to press their button. Upon analysis of the data, the researchers realised that the earliest signal they could catch started seven seconds before the volunteers reported having made their decision. Given the delay of a few seconds in the imaging, they reckoned that the brain activity could have begun about ten seconds before the conscious decision. The researchers revealed that the signals were picked up from a region called the frontopolar cortex, which is located at the front of the brain, immediately behind the forehead. While writing about the observations made during the research in his study report, Haynes said that the front polar cortex might be the brain region where decisions are initiated. He also revealed that the next step in the research would be to speed up the data analysis so as to enable his team to predict people's choices as their brains would make them.
The London News.Net


From this page:
http://www.misterseed.com/2008NEWLONDONLATEST.htm
 

IJesusChrist

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When I read this a while ago, it only strengthened the arguement that consciousness is actually a very interesting mechanism that allows the for the observation of time, and really that is the only function it has.

I haven't met too many people who agree with me on this - or even understand it.
 

BrainEater

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what about instant decisions?? do they have the 10 second brain time lags too?? :shock:
 

IJesusChrist

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there is no such thing as instant decisions, but most quick ones occur somewhere in the few micro seconds before you preceive them... Impulses like pulling your hand away from a hot stove takes no cognitive ability, and isn't a decision.
 

tryptonaut

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I have seen a docu on this (I think it was a BBC docu) and they didn't say it was 10 seconds, it was like some milliseconds, even in quick decisions. The test subjects had to press buttons as quick as they could after they were given a choice and the brain pattern always showed a definite decision some few hundred milliseconds before any signal was sent to the muscles and before the brain pattern showed a cognitive decision.
If you think about it, how many times have you done things that you didn't want to do in the first place but ended up doing anyways? And how many times have you succeeded doing something important, but you really couldn't tell why?

Like one time you tried to stop smoking but you didn't last a day, and the other time you just stopped and quit forever? Where was the difference? It wasn't your conscious thinking of wanting to quit - that has been absolutely the same both times!
 

BrainEater

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pulling your hand away from a hot stove can be a decision, if you are not already sure before that you will react impulsively at conditions like threatening temperature, so if you wanted could you decide to not pull away your hand from a hot stove??
 

BrainEater

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+100 points for the candidate and you win absolutely nothing!!!

just kidding... :mrgreen: but so it is proven that there don't exist instant decisions for humans??? always a tiny fraction of time behind actual reality or were the decisions before actual reality??? and does everyone has the same time lags with fast decisions?? or does it depend on the type of decision how much the lag is??? i dont know :D
 

Psychoid

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I thought the brain wasn't involved in reflexes? That's why I say moving your hand when it burns can't be considered a decision.

I think 10 seconds is a lot.
 

BrainEater

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i think they use this in movies etc... because i think 10 seconds is nothing but as you say it can be a lot and a lot of information can be filled into a 10 seconds film. i think decisions depend on choices and choices are sorted out constantly by the brain so it'd be obvious that the process of sorting choices comes before the process of decision making and therefore takes time.

reflexes are wired to the brain but act independently obviously, thats why you have no choice in reflexes.

apart of that by the way our brains also do decisions that we don't even realize AT ALL............
 

BrainEater

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i bet that's only when you attach enough to the decision or the idea of the decision. because i somehow can't accept that i inhabit a device, which is smarter than i am and it appears that it also knows the future??? or how could it know of decisions 10 seconds in advance?? hmm really confusing!! :D
 

OutThisLife

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BrainEater a dit:
i bet that's only when you attach enough to the decision or the idea of the decision. because i somehow can't accept that i inhabit a device, which is smarter than i am and it appears that it also knows the future??? or how could it know of decisions 10 seconds in advance?? hmm really confusing!! :D

That's because, quite simply, free will is an illusion.
 

doticeman

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Free will is not so much an illusion as a way of dealing with time. To go about your day to day business assuming that whatever happens is completely out of your control would be futile. Our minds instead see that we do make choices, and depending on those choices our paths will continue.

It is a more pleasing more can-do attitude taken by one who believes in free will....
 

BrainEater

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i heard nothing happens coincidentally. what you think? and does believing in free will equal believing in god? sorry for using the g-word, just trying to keep it general. :lol:
 

IJesusChrist

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Right, nothing happens coincidentally, everything happens the only way it [can/will/has to].
 

BrainEater

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everything without nothing is still everything. but is nothing without everything still nothing?
 

IJesusChrist

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:roll:
 

BrainEater

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alright you don't get it. anyway it's everything that happens coincidentally. but also nothing. well who cares anyway? just stupoid words....
 

IJesusChrist

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You use the words nothing and everything in the same sentance often, but it gets us no where! What am I suppose to take away from that?
 
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