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Legalization Strategy

druglessdouglas

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i think some people should collect the info and supply others so they can sort it and enter it in the thread. the people collecting the info (papers, tv, internet or whatever) shouldnt be able to see the whole thread at first.
this would stop bickering and unscientific editing. keep it objective.
all info goes in, good or bad, as long as it is relevant.
the people making the entries should put it ALL in as well. make it valid

i dont mind not seeing the whole thread in the intertest of objectivity
 

GOD

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Good one Drugy , but i`m against you or any other member not being able to see everything . I said it should be 3 threads = one with the bare facts , written as easily to understand and as short as posible so that even i could understand . Then an open brainstorming thread that was strictly edited so it stayed on the subject . And then anotherone for the bits that didnt realy fit in the brainstorming thread so we can all see them and maybe they find their place in the other threads later as i`m against censorship . But i`m against idiots and trolls sabotaging things to so we would have to be strict and stay on the subject or get beamed over to the third thread .

YOO HOOO !!! Caduceus . We need a final decision .
 

????????

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This is a very good idea, lots of good and reliable info gets pushed back in the various pages of topics. I just dug some info for the 2012 enthusiasts in another thread... But how nice would it be if things like these were organized by substance and more!

Isn't it possible to make sticky threads? that way every forum would have their appropriate topic(s) for the articles..
 

Forkbender

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Should we restrict ourselves to drug laws?
 

GOD

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In the end it comes down to our lord and saviour jesus words "If you are not for us you are against us" = Either we are part of the answer or we are part of the problem . I`m part of the answer , the people who dont help are armchair philosiphers . In my opinion arnchair philosiphers are people who talk about legalisation , could help and dont do anything . People who dont help must have motives and the only ones i can think of are either because they are to dumb to understand , to egoistic to help or because they have financial interests in illegality/the situation as it is now .

No one thinks that there is a single silver bullet answer . Or that its going to be easy but we must start somewhere and have patience . At the moment most people are doing inefective things or unrealistic things that have never got us anywhere and never will . Like talk about churches , demos that dont work . petitions and referendums . We need to refine our tactics and get the optimal out of them . Its exactly like driving cars . At first there were no rules / no generaly agreed upon way to do it and that resulted in many acidents . Then some people sat down and talked about it and came up with a simple book with a sensible strategy in it so everyone could understand it , learn it and avoid acidents . When they were writing it they took the sensible bits from every existing strategy and united them , then they published it . We all use it now all over the world and when we stick to it there are very few acidents . How do groups like the hindus , the moslems , the christians , the jews , the british nation and the united states of america sucede and stay together for hundreds to thousands of years ? The hindus have the vedas , the muslims have the koran , the christians have the bile , the jews have the thora , the british nation had the magna carta , the usa has the bill of rights .



Another part of the info archive would be to collect legal verdicts and expert witness statements . Thats the ones that judges and people who are being tried apply for to prove evidence . So expert witnesses evidence . Theses can all be used to try to prove things in courts .

I think organising things like 2012 info and info on other subjects is a very good idea , but this thread should concentrate on what its about first . Lateral thinking is good but we dont want to come of the subject here , and thats solving drug problems .
 

Forkbender

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^I wasn't referring to esotericism, but to oppressive government measures in a more general sense, like the law which requires people to carry some form of ID all the time. Because to me they are part of one big problem.
 

GOD

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I wasnt refering to you .
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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But to me. :wink:

Thanks for writing that here GOD, I forgot where I had written my post last night.
At the moment most people are doing inefective things or unrealistic things that have never got us anywhere and never will . Like talk about churches , demos that dont work . petitions and referendums .
Yes, that is a good point. Will comment more later.
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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In what sense will/should this archive be different from the archives at MAPS, Erowid, Leda, the Lyceum, Norml etc.?
 

GOD

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It would be a complete one , an international one that can be easily acessed by everyone and have legal expert witness evidence , and not be full of dogma and/or hard to use/find . If those archives are so good or complete why arent they having any noticeable effect . Because thats only part of the plan , another part is how to use the information .

You said that you have no control of the structure of the site . I didnt know that . You said that only the owner could decide . Does he read the site ? Does he know what i am talking about ? Do you mean i should ask him personaly ? I am not trying to stear you into a dificult position with your boss . And my last post wasnt just aimed at you .
 

Bastiaan

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14 Sept 2007
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@GOD
have patience
:roll:

Its exactly like driving cars . At first there were no rules / no generaly agreed upon way to do it and that resulted in many acidents . Then some people sat down and talked about it and came up with a simple book with a sensible strategy in it so everyone could understand it , learn it and avoid acidents .
Great explanation by example

Lateral thinking is good but we dont want to come of the subject here , and thats solving drug problems .
Word!

@Caduceus
In what sense will/should this archive be different from the archives at MAPS, Erowid, Leda, the Lyceum, Norml etc.?
It'll be a sum up!
1. It would be an archive with the goal to offer insight to the world that alteration of drug-laws are ethically correct, in respect to personal freedom and responsibility I am not a sheep having some delusioned other sheep that thinks he is a sheppard tell me what is good for me 2.That it will be beneficial in many ways healthwise to society, not just biological but also psyhcological, also that many psychoactives may prove revolutionary tools in treating disorders (even though MAPS is doing pretty much the best job possible at this, it's the alltogetherness that I think is not yet existent) 3. Demonstrating that psychoactives are a large part of the human history and culture and how they have their place 4. Convincing the world of the reason why there is a war on drugs, why authorities want us to think psychoactives are harmful and dangerous to society and showing them how they go about to make them all take the bait
Stuff like this! I suppose :)
 

Caduceus Mercurius

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I sent him a message, asking him to check this thread out.
 

GOD

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Bastiaan , thanks .

Having patience , i have i`m still here inspite of people not helping , and not getting anoyed at nothing happening because people are to buisy arguing dont have to rule eachother out . I am very frustrated . Yes there are lots of information sites and ones "talking" about legalisation ..... but nothing is happening , its not being used . As i said big brother is doing more for legalisation than we and all those sites are doing . We need unity , unity of perpous and unity of action .


Caduceus thanks . I`m sure that the owner has good intentions and i see how much effort hes putting into our cause . I and i think all the other people here are very gratefull for the unique posibilitys this site offers .
 

BrainEater

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21 Juil 2007
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I don't know ... Maybe there should be a division in the sort of forum like dedicated to experiences or dedicated to the substance...

But then... Maybe for every part of forum that deals with a drug there could be a subforum which could provide a place to discuss scientific/legal issues or maybe both of 'em separate in a sub-category.

I don't care though, but maybe it would serve the "separating the wheat from the chaff", speaking metaphorically and taking a german proverb translated.

But maybe somebody has better ideas???

@GOD i understand that you are frustrated, but i am not sure if psychonaut.com IS a site that fights for legal issues like legalisation??
I agree though that it serves the purpose on educating people about the subject. I agree, too, that that's in general good, because educated people have a more open-minded approach and this is beneficial for everyone i guess.

The problem then would be when someone gave somebody a wrong advice..... but in fact didn't want to cause any trouble, yet himself didn't know the risks the other guy was taking (or took), because he himself wasn't aware that he would give the other guy an advice which would confront him with a risky situation at all.
 

GOD

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The site is about psychonautics so its got to be about our psychonautic problems to , as you said we should be trying to help and solve problems . Divideing up scientific/legalissues would...... divide them up !!!!

The saying is exactly the same in English as in German . English people are Anglo Sachsen . Angeln and Sachsen are/were parts of Germany , thats why both cultures , languages and ways of thinking are so similar .
 

Forkbender

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don't mention the war

I agree that dividing things up even more wouldn't make any sense.
 

BrainEater

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Yeah sorry i went kind of offtopic... it was just an idea...

So how should the information be bundled ??
Should we provide ebooks or can't we do that, because of copyright or somethin?? Or just put it on the main-site as a whole section, where the information "that cannabis can be healthy" is bundled in an easy accessable and understandable way.??

peace
 

Forkbender

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Scientific articles usually have public abstracts (summary) which we can use. That's basically enough to get an impression. Usually one can access full text from universities and sometimes even from public libraries. I don't think it is legal to publish the full text, but I don't think that it is necessary. People can still access the full text, just not from this site. Evaluation is still possible.
 

druglessdouglas

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legally we can copy 5% of most texts. i think a summary, and reference to the original article/study will be enough. as long as a route back to the original text can be recorded it will always be possible to refer to it.
 

GOD

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Agree . But i`m not realy interested in me doing loads of paper work right from the start . I`m a lazy bastard . I would like to talk about possible stategys , the pros and cons and do a brainstorming about it . Then when the plan has been defined and written down as shortly and easily to read and understand as possible open it up to all the people who could help and get them to do alot of the finding things . That they feel that they are being usefull and have a part in it . I think that very many people would / will want to get involved if its not forced labour . Most people dont get involved at the moment because all our "leaders" / the legalise it elite want is for them to give money . Then the money goes to middle class , profesional activists to go on holiday to the G8 and masterbate their egos in public , thereby achieving nothing .
 
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