Horrible problem(s)

[GOD]

Yes , its mostly the people who need one themselves and are in self denyal .

My dead friend riedy the psychiatrist told me that about 1/3 of students of psychiatry break off their studys because of mental problems and that the profesion with the bigest rate of people who get psychiatric problems are psychiatrists .

 

[maxfreakout]

I think free will is nothing but something like a digital yes or no impulse, like an input output, and just like computer circuitery generates a lot of what we communicate with, so too can electric signals in the brain probably make a computer and AI, but still it seems a very complex thing and doesn't really explain consciousness. I feel like I have been/am dealing with AI though.

i think the assumption that AI is possible is based on the assumption that free-will is true

in other words i think that 'artificial intelligence' could also be called 'artificial freewill', what it means to make an 'intelligent machine' is to make a machine that is capable of acting independantly, rationally for its own reasons

what do you mean when you say you are 'dealing with' AI?

 

[Vlad]

I have the impression the beings, if they can be called that way, are not conscious or sentient, but some form of intelligence though, hence artificial.
One day though I saw them copying something I did in normal life, my acts towards my brother. They just copied that. So they knew what I was doing. Doesn't mean they're conscious or sentient, but intelligent yes.

 

[maxfreakout]

I have the impression the beings, if they can be called that way, are not conscious or sentient, but some form of intelligence though, hence artificial.
One day though I saw them copying something I did in normal life, my acts towards my brother. They just copied that. So they knew what I was doing. Doesn't mean they're conscious or sentient, but intelligent yes.

that is very interesting i have experienced something very similar, some crazy entity i encountered in a trip did an impersonation of me, certain strange habits i have towards other people. But i never thought about whether or not the entity was conscious or not. But it had a major effect on my life because i had never been conscious of this habit until it did this impersonation of me, and in that way it had the effect of expanding my consciousness

i think 'unconscious intelligence' sounds a bit like a self-contradiction, ie how can it be intelligent if it isnt conscious? isnt consciousness a pre-requisite of intelligence?

 

[Vlad]

Yes , its mostly the people who need one themselves and are in self denyal

Don't recommend pseudo science to people who could really use it. The medicines psychiatrists inject you with are pure poison that has been 'tested' on volunteers (or not) to see how they react. They understand mostly JACK SHIT about how the brain works. It's not an exact science, and you recommend such a dubious experimental science to heal someone?

When I was in the ward, there was a guy there who was really off his rocker. He believed everyone was his family, talked funny sounds believing he spoke a foreign language, believed he was from somewhere else, and so on.

His condition didn't get better because of the medicines. If anything his mother when she came there said he had become worse, more like demented at his age (22 or so).

These psychiatric drugs are DANGEROUS because they are not based on exact but experimental science, and they are even the more so dangerous because they bind to receptors that 'hallucinogens' bind to and nobody really understands well HOW it works. It's gambling when they inject you these poisons. It's experimental science that found a substance that modifies behaviour and stops, in some cases, hallucinations, and has been approved by authorities, nothing more. Pseudoscience crap.

 

[maxfreakout]

they give you drugs with nasty side-effects, then they give you more drugs to treat the side-effects of the first drugs, which have their own side effects, and then more drugs for THOSE side-effects, etc etc you end up taking shitloads of medication which doesnt even help with the original problem

and they dont even want to listen to their patients in many cases, all they want to do is prescribe drugs

and one really bad aspect of many of the psychiatric drugs, is that they stop psychedelic drugs from working :evil:

 

[Vlad]

that is very interesting i have experienced something very similar, some crazy entity i encountered in a trip did an impersonation of me, certain strange habits i have towards other people. But i never thought about whether or not the entity was conscious or not. But it had a major effect on my life because i had never been conscious of this habit until it did this impersonation of me, and in that way it had the effect of expanding my consciousness

i think 'unconscious intelligence' sounds a bit like a self-contradiction, ie how can it be intelligent if it isnt conscious? isnt consciousness a pre-requisite of intelligence?

Well if they are conscious then it demands a real examination, because these things are really intelligent. What do they live and feed off then, how do they exist, and so on. What's even more strange is why many seem humanoid in appearance and have faces. Except for the talking triangles I saw most were humanoid beings.

 

[Vlad]

they give you drugs with nasty side-effects, then they give you more drugs to treat the side-effects of the first drugs, which have their own side effects, and then more drugs for THOSE side-effects, etc etc you end up taking shitloads of medication which doesnt even help with the original problem

and they dont even want to listen to their patients in many cases, all they want to do is prescribe drugs

Exactly. They consider you inferior because you are 'sick' and deduce from that mostly that you seem to be unable to reason. That's my experience.

and one really bad aspect of many of the psychiatric drugs, is that they stop psychedelic drugs from working :evil:

They turned my trips electronic. And DMT stopped working yes.

 

[maxfreakout]

They consider you inferior because you are 'sick' and deduce from that mostly that you seem to be unable to reason.

Foucault wrote about this in his excellent book 'madness and civilisation'

he said that sometime after the renaissance, madness (characterised as 'unreason') was SILENCED, ie people stopped listening to what mad people were saying, and stopped placing any importance in it. And it has remained that way right up to the present day

it was interesting to hear Humphrey Osmond (psychiatrist in the 1960s) saying that before he first took LSD, he only used to think that the things his schizophrenic patients were saying was purely delirious nonsense, then AFTER he experienced LSD, he said he started actually listening to them, and empathising with what they were saying

psychedelics are the true tools of a genuine psychiatry, not all this poisoinous shit they deal with nowadays

 

[IJesusChrist]

I hope you read this one, and again I'd rather talk to you over a messanger-

When I took a heavy dose of mushrooms, I did have experiences where I thought things were happening before I even though of them. The FEELING is the same, you just extroverted it on to something else - "electronic jews".

The same process is going on, the 'paranoia' that something knows your thoughts before they happen - I had this, I know exactly what you feel when this happens. The thing is, this isn't happening. It's a paradox. Your mind is a lot more complicated than we think, especially the subconcious, but most likely what is happening in your mind is an extreme case of deja-vu.

After taking my large trip, I used to get my dreams confused with reality, I couldn't remember if what happened the day before was a dream, or if it actually happened. There were many occurences where I would say to myself or my friends "Holy shit that really happened?" Or "Dude, you don't remember doing that...... oh... was a dream..."

In actuality, I started to realize I was only having a very weird deja-vu, I would see things happen before they happened, and I would have feelings from the future, or even predict my past. It all sounds very weird, but I think you should understand what I'm talking about.

The difference is your projecting it onto something else, you're mind is wiring these feelings to an entity, the entity existed in your trip, but really didn't after. Unfortunatly your wirings probably were strong enough to remember the entity vividly, enough to bring it into the sober world again.

What you're seeing is the remnants of your trip, the paths that were connected in your neurons during your DMT trip.

I'm not a psychologist or a neurologist and I could be full of shit, but since I recently recovered from some nasty form of psychoticness I feel like I should atleast put my 2 cents in.

The biggest thing is, you yourself have to realize, not DENY, but realize these things aren't real.

Oh, and don't go to any doctors, they don't humanize schizophrenics. They treat them as vegetables.

 

[restin]

just because you have made experience with bad psychiatrists that doesn't mean that the science and profession of psychiatry is bad. Meds are not the only part of a therapy.

 

[maxfreakout]

Well if they are conscious then it demands a real examination, because these things are really intelligent. What do they live and feed off then, how do they exist, and so on. What's even more strange is why many seem humanoid in appearance and have faces. Except for the talking triangles I saw most were humanoid beings.

well i think that they are 'non-physical' so they neednt be bound by the same kind of rules that we physical beings are bound by, 'asking what do they eat?' is like asking what do dream characters eat?

'How do they exist' is otoh a very important and interesting question, where are they when you arent experiencing them? Are they secondary to your own existence? etc

But above all, i think that the central question is WHAT DO THEY DO? Specifically, what do they reveal to you, the perceiving human subject. And it seems from much of what you have been saying, that what they are doing, is offering transcendental insights into the nature of cybernetics, determinism and self-controllership

 

[Vlad]

When I took a heavy dose of mushrooms, I did have experiences where I thought things were happening before I even though of them. The FEELING is the same, you just extroverted it on to something else - "electronic jews".

The same process is going on, the 'paranoia' that something knows your thoughts before they happen - I had this, I know exactly what you feel when this happens. The thing is, this isn't happening. It's a paradox. Your mind is a lot more complicated than we think, especially the subconcious, but most likely what is happening in your mind is an extreme case of deja-vu.

No it's not like that. I get what you're saying, but I always was, am, and even during trips, hyper conscious and sharp. I never daze out (anymore). Not even on weed.
I noticed it's not myself thinking it happens before I thought or at the same time and so on. It's like an independent intelligence dealing with me. I saw these beings when crystal clear sober and sharp and not under influence of anything. Weeks on end.

After taking my large trip, I used to get my dreams confused with reality, I couldn't remember if what happened the day before was a dream, or if it actually happened. There were many occurences where I would say to myself or my friends "Holy shit that really happened?" Or "Dude, you don't remember doing that...... oh... was a dream..."

In actuality, I started to realize I was only having a very weird deja-vu, I would see things happen before they happened, and I would have feelings from the future, or even predict my past. It all sounds very weird, but I think you should understand what I'm talking about.

The difference is your projecting it onto something else, you're mind is wiring these feelings to an entity, the entity existed in your trip, but really didn't after. Unfortunatly your wirings probably were strong enough to remember the entity vividly, enough to bring it into the sober world again.

What you're seeing is the remnants of your trip, the paths that were connected in your neurons during your DMT trip.

What you describe is more like what I experienced during trips. Trips sedate me to a degree. But I saw these entities mainly AFTER trips. During trips I felt mostly normal. This is a very important point I forgot to mention in fact. During mushrooms trips I felt normal. When the trip was over, I saw these beings again.

Oh, and don't go to any doctors, they don't humanize schizophrenics. They treat them as vegetables.

Haha, lol. True.

 

[IJesusChrist]

just because you have made experience with bad psychiatrists that doesn't mean that the science and profession of psychiatry is bad. Meds are not the only part of a therapy.

I just don't see how a man or woman who has been relatively sober their entire life can help with a person of schizophrenia. That's like having a guide for mt.everest who has never left his house.

Vlad - since I don't believe in communicating with aliens through the mind, I'd have to say you're schizophrenic.
Others may this shamanic.
It's up to you if you want them to go away or to listen to them.

And by the way, everything I said was months after my trip, I was always sober. - I didn't want to realize it was fake either, I liked the feeling that I had something special, that I was smarter than everyone, even when experiencing the "flashbacks" were extremely depressing, for some reason, I wanted it back... like a drug.

(pretty sure it was just an imbalance, but who's to say)

 

[Vlad]

But above all, i think that the central question is WHAT DO THEY DO? Specifically, what do they reveal to you, the perceiving human subject. And it seems from much of what you have been saying, that what they are doing, is offering transcendental insights into the nature of cybernetics, determinism and self-controllership

I have been thinking that these beings are nothing but images in the mind, showing you what is happening on a hyper plane. Like, there could be parts of our being, my being, that exist in another plane of existence, normally connected to the body, and it could be I experience things there, maybe contact with beings, and my brain shows me that as images and sounds.

 

[Vlad]

Vlad - since I don't believe in communicating with aliens through the mind, I'd have to say you're schizophrenic.
Others may this shamanic.
It's up to you if you want them to go away or to listen to them.

I don't believe in anything. I test and experiment. I noticed beings/entities that communicate. You don't believe it like doctors apparently and label it as a disease. I don't think there is proof to say such a thing. The proof is on the claimant.

 

[maxfreakout]

I have been thinking that these beings are nothing but images in the mind, showing you what is happening on a hyper plane. Like, there could be parts of our being, my being, that exist in another plane of existence, normally connected to the body, and it could be I experience things there, maybe contact with beings, and my brain shows me that as images and sounds.

Do you think that your brain has any kind of purpose in showing you this? ie apart from freaking you out

 

[restin]

I just don't see how a man or woman who has been relatively sober their entire life can help with a person of schizophrenia. That's like having a guide for mt.everest who has never left his house.

So the job of psychiatrist should be given to schizos and suiciders? Fine. A doc that makes a heart OP doesn't need having had one as well, a judge that judges a murderer doesn't need to commit a crime. Do you think noone was helped with a psychiatrist? WRONG. If a person dies on the bed of a surgeon, shall we eliminate medicine?

 

[Maru]

Good point IJesusChrist (btw, what a pseudo !)

Besides, I don't trust most doctors.

And you're right, don't *totally* trust doctors but listen to them. Most do knows what they does based on their experience. They saw many people with harsh problems. Each one is unique but thru the vision of the doctor you can have some hints about your problem. If you do not feel good with a psy, find another (althougth there are not enough).

I'd like to see real science instead of 'psychiatry'.

There' no 'real' science about brain and consciousness. Dot. You have to do with.

not those of the 'doctors'. Before you recommend them, show me that psychiatrists 'cure' these 'diseases'.

They do not cure. That's not their job. Their job is to help you to cure by yourself or in the worst case, to accept a certain level of disease helped by neuroleptics (when they help). And yes, drugs are dangerous and have side effects. But feeling very bad also :?

I don't believe in schizophrenia.

I said that your symptoms 'look liked' the main symptoms of what is called schizophrenia. It's not a diagnosis. Many mental illness may share such symptoms. Anyway, do you really care if your problem is called schizo, bi-polar,paranoaic or just tired and used to do too much drugs ?

So you're saying that the entities I see and show SUPER Intelligence is my own brain tricking me?

YES !!

Are you claiming my consciousness is splitting, that my self splits into a part that talks to my self?

YES !! :idea: (except that your self can not be splitted, you confuse between brain process and self).
Such thing happens to my friend almost every time he smoke DMT. He find it's quite fun and enjoy the spectacle.

If so, where is the proof?

Where is the proof that there are intelligent geometric beeings that want to control you ? Because they tell you intelligent things ?
But you are intelligent (and I believe it), so do not be surprised if your brain 'tell' you intelligent things.

 

[Vlad]

I have been thinking that these beings are nothing but images in the mind, showing you what is happening on a hyper plane. Like, there could be parts of our being, my being, that exist in another plane of existence, normally connected to the body, and it could be I experience things there, maybe contact with beings, and my brain shows me that as images and sounds.

Do you think that your brain has any kind of purpose in showing you this? ie apart from freaking you out

Self-protection.