GODbye

[magickmumu]

Regarding conditions, I do know that both GOD and I were requested by Dr.Leospace to avoid (personal) discussion with eachother. Hence I'll keep it short and say bye for now.

Remember I said "I'm on my way out." That statement was actually independent of the dynamics of the forum and had more to do with my personal situation. Eventually I'll be leaving again, maybe sooner and more peacefully than some had anticipated.

The last couple of months I have been thinking of leaving as well.
But I decided not to leave jet, because I met a lot of cool people on this place.

CM I hope that if you do leave us, we could still keep in contact by other means.
The meetings at your place where a lot of fun.
Mysticwarrior was thinking about organising a meeting. And I could do a meeting in Rotterdam if there is any need for it. It would be cool to see you again at a future meeting.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I hope that when CM leaves ( I think I understood he was leaving soon) you will come back...

I didn't say it will be soon, but that it may be soon. It has to do with the circumstances of my life, which are only partially within my control.

But my leaving in itself won't make it possible for GOD to return in all his glory, unless the moderators exempt him from the forum rules, or adjust/delete some of the rules in order to facilitate his presence. If he's willing to abide by the rules and accept being moderated, he could start posting right away. I guess when I'm gone it will be easier for him to make a come-back though. So please be patient, I'm working on it.

We don't have to, he said himself several time during the last months (years) that he intended to leave.

Not years. The first time (as far as I can remember) was January this year.

Technicly i`ve been un-"banned" but the conditions put on me and the threats made against me prevernt me from takeing part in the forum .

Those conditions are the same for everyone and they are the forum rules. The threat of getting a temporary or permanent ban is also the same for everyone.

So I put it to you now. Please, both of you stay But rather then cause all this drama when you have a difference of opinion. Accept you are different and are living completely different lives full of various unique influences and you should take this moments to learn from one another.

Well said, but this 'drama' isn't about a difference of opinion. It's about how certain opinions are expressed or disagreed with.

 

[Bastiaan]

I second Brugs' point of view.
Please don't take this personal because I don't judge anyone and it's not meant this way, just my honest and possibly very flawed point of view
I was always quite confused by the contradiction of arrogance and sometimes seemingly egotripping and on point knowledgde/consciousness you displayed
You came off hypocritical or as if you had very violent moodswings
My bet was it was either frustration and a bit of despair so few listen or perhaps a tactic to actually get people to pay attention (which in my limited point of view doesn't work or perhaps on a few, but is counterproductive when taking into consideration the sum of results).
No reason for a ban and some would argue one is not responsible for the reaction of others. I don't agree here. The more knowledgable person carries more responsibility which is at times perhaps inconvenient and is very easy to bypass utilising your environment. Yet this is of course how it is. If 90% of the world agrees on something that just isn't true, well.. that's a big piece of the puzzle
I kind of stayed out of this ban thing (I hope/think?).
Kind of hard as it's always (too) easy to just be neutral.
I didn't think this was nescessary but the emotions of people were strong and it happened.
The forum is different without you, more dull.
Bye

 

[mysticwarrior]

Technicly i`ve been un-"banned" but the conditions put on me and the threats made against me prevernt me from takeing part in the forum .

GODbye .

Don't complain, join us again or leave, do what ever you like.

 

[restin]

witchhunt's over.

 

[Forkbender]

But my leaving in itself won't make it possible for GOD to return in all his glory, unless the moderators exempt him from the forum rules, or adjust/delete some of the rules in order to facilitate his presence. If he's willing to abide by the rules and accept being moderated, he could start posting right away.

I guess you are referring mostly to the 'Mutual Respect and Peace' rule? Exactly how did GOD break this rule? By disagreeing with someone? By calling someone out on his statements? By saying that what somebody said was bullshit? By using words to tease someone about their statements? You say (which provides a clue to what you mean):

It's about how certain opinions are expressed or disagreed with.

All you have done is saying that you don't agree with how GOD has put things in the past, not what it was about his way of putting things that got you angry. I'm guessing you think that his way of disagreeing was disrespectful, but at the same time you (and others) continually told GOD to stay out of discussions about things he didn't like. You have shown just as much intolerance to GOD as you read in his posts regarding esotericism. I certainly didn't agree with how you treated him, while the forum rules were clear about how to deal with such issues (i.e. contact a mod/admin).

Those conditions are the same for everyone and they are the forum rules. The threat of getting a temporary or permanent ban is also the same for everyone.

yet you said earlier:

Regarding conditions, I do know that both GOD and I were requested by Dr.Leospace to avoid (personal) discussion with eachother.

So there are some extra conditions put on him (and you, for that matter). As I said before in the moderatorsection, I don't think these restrictions solve the issue, they rather put it away safely where it can rot and start to stink. At the first post GOD made (which was pretty straightforward, not attacking anyone, not using harsh words, etc.), you immediately get involved in a discussion about his personality again, which puts you in clear violation with the 'conditions' put on you by Dr. Leospace. Obviously the issue isn't solved at all, we just go on pretending it isn't there. Not a very psychonautic way of dealing with it, kind of like having a bad trip and blaming it on the drugs. I'd say: forget about the conditions, go all out in one great mega-discussion where everyone can say anything, especially you and GOD and discuss things in an open manner, because that hasn't happened. Questions were raised by him that you didn't answer and I imagine it is the other way around as well.

But I guess that won't happen. It's a nice illusion of peace after all.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I'd say: forget about the conditions, go all out in one great mega-discussion where everyone can say anything

Again? We've had several mega-discussions.

especially you and GOD and discuss things in an open manner because that hasn't happened. Questions were raised by him that you didn't answer and I imagine it is the other way around as well.

No, it's not the other way around. Not anymore. I'd rather go for the illusion of peace.

 

[Forkbender]

Again? We've had several mega-discussions.

Again. You only read parts of sentences or only respond to parts of it. You always pretended to be on moral high ground and avoided discussion by saying you didn't want to listen to someone talk if he said it in a way that you don't agree with. That is imposing your terms on others, implicitly saying that the other is inferior because he doesn't accept your standards. That is not the basis of a good mega-discussion, because you don't take the other seriously.

 

[Forkbender]

Ivar,

I like you and I think you are doing a lot of good by your activism. I appreciate your enthusiasm and I think you are a very nice person. I feel compassion when you talk about personal issues on here and like many of the links to interesting articles you post.

We have our disagreements, but I think we can look past that, that's why I think we can talk about this and that's why I think you can handle what seem to be harsh words.

(other side of the coin, for completeness' sake.).

 

[Brugmansia]

It may seem a grisly path to pour out the actual struggle without triggering unwanted inner sensation, but on the other hand that's what happens as well when undergoing a trip. Accomodate incoming notions with acceptance to work them out. Rather than bending them in order to remain ignorant for the sake of being oblivious. That sets in an act to put on a face maintained through calculated efforts.

I'd say any verbal dagger won't hurt as long as it is honestly examined by one self's, whether it is a valid statement with fundaments or not will be told by the self, no need to convince another in order to get your answer. One may rest assured.

 

[infinitetransistor]

If god cant survive here how can i hope too?
i think that makes this place hell
but wheres the devil?
must be me

have fun man live long

 

[Psychoid]

I'd say: forget about the conditions, go all out in one great mega-discussion where everyone can say anything

Again? We've had several mega-discussions.

especially you and GOD and discuss things in an open manner because that hasn't happened. Questions were raised by him that you didn't answer and I imagine it is the other way around as well.

No, it's not the other way around. Not anymore. I'd rather go for the illusion of peace.

The fact is, you never really listened to what GOD tried to tell you. You always dodged or ignored the most important things he said and questions he asked you.

Can't you, for once, be honest with yourself and with all of us, especially GOD?

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Again. You only read parts of sentences or only respond to parts of it.

That's true if you're referring to the final stages of the conflict, but we had many heated and unheated discussions before that, during which many questions were answered. GOD and I also had some private correspondances, which clarified things at the time. We've both privately and publicly expressed what we DO appreciate in eachother, and which issues we agree upon. Another megadiscussion would simply be a rehash of things already said in the past.

In the end I no longer saw GOD, myself or our interaction as the problem, but the lack of moderation on this forum, which I felt might be the result of a vagueness of forum rules. Give me an example of someone with GOD's choice of words tolerated at any of the other psychonautical forums out there, and I might let it rest. I don't think we have to pride ourselves on being the most permissive entheogen forum in the world. I'm all for freedom of speech, and I love discussions and most certainly disagreement, but I also think that every space in real life (office, lecture hall, dojo) and cyberspace needs to set certain limits when it comes to things like name-calling and ridicule, and that of course there must be fair play. That's all I've been saying.

 

[spice]

Caduceus, I must disagree.....you are using the very argument against GOD that others have used against *certain* people that YOU like and YOU agree with and YOU listen to.......


and you brushed those arguments aside, because YOU....YOU....not anyone else,
were in agreement.


Two sides.

 

[magickmumu]

I don't care if God comes back or stays away.
I always had the feeling being here was like a game for him.
Personaly i don't like to play along, so this is it.

:lol:

 

[Guest]

and you brushed those arguments aside, because YOU....YOU....not anyone else,
were in agreement.

Not to mention that the whole freakin' community was in disagreement on this matter.

 

[spice]

magickmumu- It goes beyond GOD leaving, it's about much bigger issues, such as *freedom of speech* and censorship......as well as cronyism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism

and favoritism.


Seriously.

 

[magickmumu]

seriously :lol:

I don't take this serious. It is sad to see the community being divided by this situation.

If you ask me we should all take this not so seriously.
If I understand correctly God has the ability to come back.
CM did something wrong, but it's not permanent and he did apologize for it in the end.

 

[Psyolopher]

Good point magickmumu.
Maybe he's just fuckin with ya'll.
Well goodbye God, if not.

 

[pooz321]

do you feel a need to tell everyone your going or a need for their attention?