What to do when someone goes bad?

[Faust]

Hi! I did some mexican mushrooms last tuesday with a bunch of my friends. We used 3 smartshop portions (no idea how much that is, but defenitly not alot) fresh ones for 4 people.

I figured because mexicans don't seem that strong to me this would be fine for 1 guy cause he hadn't used them before.

This 4th guy called Ali showed up later then the rest of us so we decided to take our portions around 6:15 PM, i think he came round an hour later or so.

We tripped quite nicely altough i didn't really get into it, i was quite restless and couldn't just sit still and enjoy the music. Instead i started wandering around in my building (i live in a bigass empty complex) so I decided to go to the fourth floor and sit in the stairway looking outside, this was quite nice cause of the funny environment I was in. It was fairly dark and well mainly just 'strange' but I liked it.

Anyway, this other guy showed up by this time and I tried to look and act normal and warm up his nice mushroom-soup. I gave him the stuff and wandered off again but by this time my effects started to wear off bigtime. The other 2 guy's were still very much tripping and being fairly chaotic and acting silly etc.

I decided to smoke some weed and relax in my own room. Very soon the 2 friends walk into my room looking quite panicked and they try to tell me Ali is tripping quite bad. I walk into the living room and I see him standing there having a hard time walking and having these massive black eyes staring into nothing. He seems really lost at this time so I walk him back to the couch and make him sit down.

He's really confused at this time and doesn't know what is happening to him. I tell him to relax and enjoy the music etc. but it's not working. He's getting quite scary now and even though I don't know the guy that well (he's a friend of a friend) he desperately wants me to stay with him.
The other 2 guys wandered off to other rooms and aren't really enjoying their trip anymore.

I keep telling Ali to relax but he really can't do that anymore. He soon starts vomiting and after that I give him some water with sugar. I have no idea if this actually works to make the trip wear off sooner but maybe he'll believe it's true and it'll work like a placebo.

He lies down and still can't relax untill the effects really start to wear off, then he more or less wakes up and soberes up.

Anyway! After all this i realised I have no idea what to do when someone goes bad. I felt I really couldn't calm him down or do anything for him. We didn't use that much so I wasn't really worried about him thát much and I knew he would just sober up after a while and the problem would be solved. So my question: What can one do when someone goes bad on mushrooms (or anything else for that matter), are there any tricks hints or tips to get someone to enjoy his trip? or to have benefit from it in any way?

 

[Brewmaster]

Xanax, xanex (however you spell it) "Zanny Bars"

Sometimes there's nothing you can do for someone to enjoy their trip, and sometimes that person is being so damn loud at 3am that you just know the cops are on the way and you have to knock em out.

Back in the day, I was with so many friends during their bad trips and all I could do was try and talk them down, then once you think their fine and calm, they start screaming/ getting naked again. Now, if you start ruining my buzz by screaming obscenities, trashing my house or getting naked; I'm just giving you a pill so I don't start flipping out.

Sounds harsh but I'm done with baby-sitting for people that can't handle their drugs. (not saying this was the case with your friend) You did the right thing, though.

 

[Faust]

Xanax, xanex (however you spell it) "Zanny Bars"

Sometimes there's nothing you can do for someone to enjoy their trip, and sometimes that person is being so damn loud at 3am that you just know the cops are on the way and you have to knock em out.

Back in the day, I was with so many friends during their bad trips and all I could do was try and talk them down, then once you think their fine and calm, they start screaming/ getting naked again. Now, if you start ruining my buzz by screaming obscenities, trashing my house or getting naked; I'm just giving you a pill so I don't start flipping out.

Sounds harsh but I'm done with baby-sitting for people that can't handle their drugs. (not saying this was the case with your friend) You did the right thing, though.

Doesn't sound that harsch to me. This time it was quite alright cause I was already sobered up and didn't panic myself but if I was still tripping it would've been worse.
Where does one get those pills though?

 

[Hyperion1980]

view movie:

http://www.maps.org/wwpe_vid/

It elaborates on the four basic principles of psychedelic therapy:

1) Create a safe space
2) Sitting, not guiding
3) Talk through, don't talk down
4) "Difficult" is not necessarily "bad."


have a nice trip

 

[DevXavier]

You probably did the right thing.

The thing you did wrong is, he was alone in his coming on, nobody to talk to, because the other 2 were tripping their faces off. Probably that induced his bad-trip.

 

[Faust]

You probably did the right thing.

The thing you did wrong is, he was alone in his coming on, nobody to talk to, because the other 2 were tripping their faces off. Probably that induced his bad-trip.

Nah it wasn't really like that. At first it was just the 3 of them having a laugh with their tripping. I left the room because i was quite bored and being among 3 people tripping and laughing their asses of wasn't alot of fun for me so then I left to my own room to watch some tv and smoke a little weed.
The other 2 left him when he went bad and came to me. I stayed with him untill he sobered up. The other 2 came back when they were down to earth again aswell.
They did quite see me as their 'chief' (they actaully said this, as a joke but nevertheless they did kinda see me as the experienced one).

He seemed to enjoy the beginning of the trip so I didnt expect it to end up the way it did.

 

[Brewmaster]

Faust, you may have already looked this up yourself but, Xanax is in a class of drugs called benzodiazepines, it affects chemicals in the brain that may become unbalanced and cause anxiety. Same class as valium and librium. It is a prescribed med used to relieve anxiety, nervousness, and tension associated with anxiety disorders. Xanax is also used to treat panic disorders.

They're kinda popular with some circles in these parts, so I can pick them up from a friend, but I'm sure there are hundreds of online places that sell Rx meds without a prescription. :D

 

[Faust]

view movie:

http://www.maps.org/wwpe_vid/

It elaborates on the four basic principles of psychedelic therapy:

1) Create a safe space
2) Sitting, not guiding
3) Talk through, don't talk down
4) "Difficult" is not necessarily "bad."


have a nice trip

Altough a slight cliché it's a nice movie, thanks.

 

[Faust]

Faust, you may have already looked this up yourself but, Xanax is in a class of drugs called benzodiazepines, it affects chemicals in the brain that may become unbalanced and cause anxiety. Same class as valium and librium. It is a prescribed med used to relieve anxiety, nervousness, and tension associated with anxiety disorders. Xanax is also used to treat panic disorders.

They're kinda popular with some circles in these parts, so I can pick them up from a friend, but I'm sure there are hundreds of online places that sell Rx meds without a prescription. :D

Ah yes it rings a bell now. I actually study psychology so I should know this stuff ;). Sounds like the easy way out for me. I don't consider myself an experienced tripper and even though i can usually manage my own trip pretty well I don't want the responsibility of having to 'save' inexperienced trippers going bad. I think this feeling spoilt my own trip in the first place and sobered me up.

 

[marc]

Sounds harsh but I'm done with baby-sitting for people that can't handle their drugs.

Same here ! That's the reason my girlfriend is not allowed to do psychedelics anymore !

I think this feeling spoilt my own trip in the first place and sobered me up.

Happened to me a couple of times, because I was to occupied taking care of people I could not enjoy my own trip. No more trips with unexperienced trippers, or it has to be with other people who can take car eof them...[/quote]

 

[tryptonaut]

That's why I do all my tripping alone. No other people to care about. No other people having to care about me. I just can't stand the burdens of social interaction during a strong trip.
There's other drugs for socializing but not psychedelics!

 

[Jahvisions]

In 'the psychidelic experience' (guide for trippers) they write that only when their is an emergency, so not when someone is scared, thorazine and other tranquilizers from the phenothiazine-type will stop the psychedelic effects.

 

[Jahvisions]

In 'the psychidelic experience' (guide for trippers) they write that only when there is an emergency, so not when someone is scared, thorazine and other tranquilizers from the phenothiazine-type will stop the psychedelic effects.
thei r= there(shame on me)

 

[Jahvisions]

In 'the psychidelic experience' (guide for trippers) they write that only when there is an emergency, so not when someone is scared, thorazine and other tranquilizers from the phenothiazine-type will stop the psychedelic effects.
thei r= there(shame on me)

 

[HeartCore]

I dont sit anymore as well and I trip alone or, with my girlfriend. In my group of friends, I've been the appointed expert since years and that translates to the trips we make together where I feel more or less too responsible for everybody else to enjoy the trip myself.

Besides that, I can't go as deep with people around me, not even with my girlfriend, as I can go alone.

As for sitting, sit not guide, thats a very good one.

 

[Jahvisions]

My opinion is also to trip alone, sometimes with friends but in lower doses. The preparation and environment is still most important. I also grew grudualy with higher doses. When it get difficult I talk myself through. For other people a list from erowid:

Antidotes

This section is for discussing substances which are used to treat psychedelic crises. The most well known drug used by emergency professionals is Thorazine, although its use has dropped somewhat because it seems to be extremely psychologically hard on the recipient.

Most acute crisis which land someone in the care of an emergency professional are the result of intense anxiety. Psychedelics can and do precipitate uncontrollable feelings of anxiety, fear, paranoia, and other agitated states. According to medical professionals who have experience dealing with psychedelics, the primary pharmaceuticals used to treat these acute agitated states are the benzodiazapenes such as Valium or Xanax.


"If all psychological approaches fail and tranquillizers have to be used, it is much better to start with Librium (30-60 milligrams) or Valium (10-30 milligrams), which seem to alleviate painful emotions without interfering with the course of the session. As soon as possible, the patient should resume a reclining position with eyeshades and headphones, to continue the introspective approach to the experience."
-- Stan Grof, LSD Psychotherapy
Haloperidol - An antipsychotic drug used to treat acute and chronic psychosis and is "considered particularly effective in the management of hyperactivity, agitation, and mania."
[mentalhealth.com]

Risperdal (risperidine / risperidone) - A somewhat newer antipsychotic often considered the first choice among the anti-psychotics for treating extreme acute hallucinogen-induced psychotic episodes because of its high affinity for 5HT2a receptors. Anti-psychotics are not generally used to treat panic reactions or other psychedelic crisis which do not involve acting out.
[TrauamSurvival.org]

Thorazine (chlorpromazine) - An antipsychotic with a large number of unpleasant side effects, a distant third or fourth choice when treating most psychosis or anxiety. "Thorazine and Mellaril are antipsychotic agents in a class called phenothiazines. They are excluded for use in the elderly because they do not have a very favorable side effect profile. If an agent is needed to control acute episodes of threatening behaviors or aggression, newer antipsychotic drugs like Risperdal or Haldol are preferred. "
[Geriatric Drug Review]

"Thorazine and other major tranquillizers are not specific neutralizers of the LSD effect. Used in high dosages, they have a general inhibiting effect that overrides and masks the psychedelic action of LSD. Detailed retrospective analysis of this situation usually shows that the patient experiences the action of both drugs simultaneously, and that the combined effect is rather unpleasant."
-- Stan Grof, LSD Psychotherapy

Treating a psychedelic crisis with Thorazine is to be avoided and is considered a form of extreme mental torture and has been known to result in weeks or months of psychological trauma for the person treated with this "mental straightjacket" while in the middle of a psychedelic crisis.
[Thorazine Vault]

Valium (diazepam) - is used to treat anxiety and muscle spasms, as well as generally calming people down. Dosage used is between 2 and 10mg for low level anxiety and 10-30mg for acute, extreme attacks. Valium is schedule IV in the US partially because some people find the effects pleasant enough to use them recreationally. Valium, Xanax, and other equivalent benzodiazepines are considered by some members of the psychedelic community to be the best chemical treatment for extreme psychedelic crises.
[Valium Vault]

Xanax (alprazolam) - Another benzodiazepine (like Valium) used to treat anxiety, muscle spasms, and to calm people down. Xanax comes on more quickly than valium and is considered more useful for treating acute episodes. Xanax pills are sometimes chewed to speed onset, although the taste can be unpleasant and soda, water, or fruit may be necessary to reduce the bitterness. Dosage for Xanax is .25-1mg for low anxiety, and 1-3mg for extreme acute attacks. See Valium. Xanax may be somewhat more sedating than Valium.

 

[GOD]

I lke what brew master said . Ive had to fight with people in bad trip refuges at festivals , 6 people sitting on someone having a bad trip while on a trip themselves is strange . Throwing my girlfriend into a bath full of warm water worked and ended in a realy interesting fuck . I went to my doctor and told him i am an amateure astronaut and i need a parachute for bad times . He smiled and gave me 50 valium , 10mg . This works realy good , 4 solve even the nastiest situations.....But try getting someone whos paranoid to take anything .

Thorazin is for hard core psychotics not for confused space people .

Try to change the situation , take them for a walk , do a castaneda and start barking like a dog or acting strange , my mate ralf starts singing . Talk to them , show them trust , be warm . Its easy to tell them to fuck off , hit them , leave them alone or do other sick ego things . Its better not to do things with the wrong people in the first place . On the other side maybe its a personal test , something for you to learn from , to develop your charakter . It happens to every one , we all have to learn to cope with it if we want to be serious psychonauts . When every i go to ceremonys there is always a baby sitter there who takes them into another room , so we dont get bothered by them .


DO NOT RING THE POLICE OR DOCTORS OR AMBULANCES.......A STOMACH PUMP IN A HOSPITAL ON A BAD TRIP WHILE HANDCUFFED IS NOT FUNNY . NOR IS BEING TIED TO A BED IN A HIGH SECURITY PSYCHIATRIC WARD .



AMEN

LOVE GOD

 

[tryptonaut]

Besides that, I can't go as deep with people around me, not even with my girlfriend, as I can go alone.

That's my opinion as well. When I'm tripping really hard even the presence of my neighbours next door can be disturbing. While tripping I'm so sensitive that I can feel them breathing even they're separated by at least one thick brick wall. I think the perfect trip setting would be a lonely mountain hut together with a really serious trip sitter. There's not many people I would trust to be a good trip sitter, probably an experienced shaman would be good (other people can fuck you up more than if you were alone!)

 

[acareheni]

Anyone else thinking of re-financing the mortgage at the new low rates this morning? I'm seeing some 5.30 APRs for 30yr fixed w/ 0 points.