what is your prefered form of ritual magick?

[BrainEater]

He saw your statement as a religious statement and wanted to tell you that there is no such thing as religion. But because you didn't know that he maybe saw your statement as a religious statement you missed the point and he thought you were offended.

peace :weedman:

 

[Lion]

"There is no such thing as religion."

Dont be childish .

You're clearly missing the point, and I'm sorry I seem to have offended you somehow.

why be sorry?
you clearly didn't know wether you offended him or not. Not your fault.. So don't be sorry.

 

[st.bot.32]

"You're clearly missing the point, and I'm sorry I seem to have offended you somehow."

Please explain your point and no you didnt ofend me .

Well not quite that religion doesn't exist, after all billions of people practice it.. but I can understand how I gave that impression.

More two different points, one short and one long: Religion, magic, and belief systems are practiced in many different forms and paths. At their heart they are all about the experience, the perception of the participant. When enough people join into the practice it becomes a consensual reality in that they have similar shared experiences.

I've had this discussion with people whom I know who practice magic (I don't) and for myself I would define it as a way of perceiving how the world works through a mixture of metaphor, belief and ritual that is used to achieve some sort of perceptual outcome. It isn't as simple as believing the I Ching works. I don't believe in divination per se but I can still bring something out of the experience. Hence if you can't get into the mindset, it won't work for you anyway.

Let's pretend Capitalism is black magic. Think of someone locked into the mindset of capitalism and the American dream, very much a mass consensual reality, a sprawling perceptual self-reinforcing feedback system, with the believers not possessing the lexicon, or even the perception to comprehend other possibilities. Their world is the suburb, the local wal-mart, their boys who are off to war, and that is the way reality has always been as far as they are concerned. And because reality is this way, and their beliefs are as they are, it self-reinforces. Nothing challenges their way of life because they are "right" and everything else is "weird, strage or wrong".

Now lets take this a step further, and imagine being able to move through different belief systems.

Being able to explain the experience by various psychological processes really doesn't ruin the "magic", at least for me, it would just increase the intrigue and I would welcome research though I'm not sure how you test shared subjective reality

Anyway I'm no expert on the subject, this is just what I have garnished from reading on the subject and being around those who delve into these sorts of things for the past couple years. I'm sure someone who knows more of the subject can put it more eloquently or correct me where I am mistaken...

 

[GOD]

I didnt understand the point of what you said and why you said it . Maybe i was projecting my being pissed off at the moment on to you , because i keep getting the feeling that some people just come here to argue and cause trouble . For example legalisation with sensible controls seems to me to be an obvious thing and all the people here seem to do is to , almost profesionaly , dissagree with eachother . I`m pissed of with some peoples empty talking and talking for talkings sake , as i said :- Talk talked about it , thought thought about it and did did it . Big brother seems to me to be doing more for legalisation than we are , for example the ban on tobaco in Holland but not on cannabis . Think of the message that that sends to the world .

If i get anoyed or offended i usualy tell people to fuck off and die , if i dont say that then usualy i`m not hurt more than normal life hurts me . I want you all to think about your opinions and have the strength to talk about them . Its hard living in a world seemingly full of goldfish who just swim in small circles all their lives . So please dont feel intimidated by me just be yourself .


Magic does not exist , if you or anyone else thinks it does please prove it . The magic you are talking about is pure bored housewives fantasy .

 

[st.bot.32]

If i get anoyed or offended i usualy tell people to fuck off and die , if i dont say that then usualy i`m not hurt more than normal life hurts me . I want you all to think about your opinions and have the strength to talk about them . Its hard living in a world seemingly full of goldfish who just swim in small circles all their lives . So please dont feel intimidated by me just be yourself .
Magic does not exist , if you or anyone else thinks it does please prove it . The magic you are talking about is pure bored housewives fantasy .

No worries, GOD. Understood.

As with most belief systems it isn't something you can prove in objective reality, as that isn't the nature of it. Just a way of perceiving the world.

I find looking at how the nature of belief filters the world, and being able to change those filters to be at the very heart of psychonautism, it certainly isn't boring to me, hence my interest in the subject!

 

[Lion]

if we were able to prove magic excists... it wouldn't be magic anymore... right?

 

[GOD]

"if we were able to prove magic excists... it wouldn't be magic anymore... right?"

= magic is science that people dont understand .

 

[Lion]

"if we were able to prove magic excists... it wouldn't be magic anymore... right?"

= magic is science that people dont understand .

i thought you said it doesn't excist?

 

[GOD]

"i thought you said it doesn't excist?"

Dont be childish , magic does not exist ecept in some missguided peoples fantasys . What people call magic is science that they dont understand .

 

[st.bot.32]

"if we were able to prove magic excists... it wouldn't be magic anymore... right?"

= magic is science that people dont understand .

i thought you said it doesn't excist?

To most people, most science and technology pretty much IS magic. Try working as a technician, you might as well be Merlin in the court of Camelot, making things work that most people don't have a clue about.

And if you can't get things working... off with your head! so sayeth the king. We call it a pink slip.

:lol:

 

[Lion]

fact you're saying it is science.. it clearly means something to you

 

[GOD]

Stopping hokus pokus means something to me . Swimming in stupid crap wont get us out of the hole we are in will it ?

 

[Lion]

Swimming in stupid crap wont get us out of the hole we are in will it ?

explain, plz

 

[st.bot.32]

This thread very much reminds me of a discussion between a mythologist and a zoologist.

Mythologist (just read The Hobbit): "Dragons don't exist!"

Zoologist (just back from Komodo Island): "Well, I saw one yesterday!"

Interestingly both parties are more or less correct...

 

[HeartCore]

Swimming in stupid crap wont get us out of the hole we are in will it ?

explain, plz

He means if you keep swimming in a pond of crap, you won't get out since keeping swimming, implies you are not climbing out, you just keep swimming.

What I think he really means, is that if we believe that hocus pocus will fix our culture, we won't get any further but we will most likely drown at some point.

 

[GOD]

Thanks HC .


Dragons dont exist , Komodo dragons (Varanus komodoensis) arent dragons .

 

[st.bot.32]

What I think he really means, is that if we believe that hocus pocus will fix our culture, we won't get any further but we will most likely drown at some point.

I used to feel the same way, then realized at some point that respecting other people's beliefs and even taking a mild curiosity in them is a far more amiable way to live. You can't force others to adopt your belief system, a great deal of human history testifies to this very point. You can challenge their beliefs only if they are open to doing so, and in the process better be ready to have your own belief system challenged as well. Also if you are going to challenge their beliefs you had better actually understand what it is you are challenging.

There is plenty of room in this world for multiple viewpoints. There are more than enough scientists exploring the larger consensual reality, figuring out how to save us from the next epidemic or massive asteroid strike. There is room for people in the amazon to drop massive quantities of DMT and believe they are evoking gods and spirits.

 

[GOD]

So you mean if some people want to swim in shit and drag us down to their level we should alow them , tolerate it and even help them . No lets get out of the darkness and come into the light . History has proved what happens when we alow idiots to dictate that their fantasys are the truth . Stop trying to justify the unjustifyable . If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem . Mental illness is not nesecerily about what a person believes but a lot about when people try to convince other people that their irational beliefs/fantasys are fact .

 

[st.bot.32]

So you mean if some people want to swim in shit and drag us down to their level we should alow them , tolerate it and even help them . No lets get out of the darkness and come into the light . History has proved what happens when we alow idiots to dictate that their fantasys are the truth . Stop trying to justify the unjustifyable . If your not part of the solution you are part of the problem . Mental illness is not nesecerily about what a person believes but a lot about when people try to convince other people that their irational beliefs/fantasys are fact .

This isn't a do one thing or the other, black and white, do or don't situation.

I totally respect you and all GOD, but you keep arguing by using a straw man.. an entirely different definition of magic than what the OP was, yet you keep arguing that this is the definition of the original post when it clearly is not. Nobody here was talking about waving wands/hocus pocus!

The OP started a very fascinating post on meta-belief and self-programming, rituals involved in Buddhism, etc ... stuff very much of interest to psychonautism. Nobody was dictating to others what they are supposed to believe. It is a shame to see a perfectly fascinating thread such as wasted over differing semantics.

 

[GOD]

Opinions and facts are different things .

Magic doesnt exist and what Drugless defined as Magick is simple repetition . I can and i will , every day in every way i am getting better and better exercises . Just like a child chanting his times tables to learn them .

Its all so simple why complicate it or mystify it . Talk talked about it , thought thought about it and the boat sank in the mean time .

It doesnt matter what colour a sinking boat is .

Stop chasing your own tail .