veganism, vegetarism, consiousness

[forest]

--- first i want to make clear that i do not think that you can say one way of life is better than the other, and thus i'm not trying to convince people of anything--

But, when i think of expanding your consiousness, i think of being aware of you actions, and that actions have concequences.

Are there any vegetarians or vegans here?
it is allready proven that abstaining from meat and deary isn't unhealthy, even in a lot of cases more healthy. and if not necessary, then why would you cause all this pain and bloodshed to all these animals?

i was very surprised not finding any topics about this here.
the bible says: thy shall not kill.
the Mazatec indians abstained from meat, dairy, alcohol and tabacco 4 days before a shroomtrip. to clean themselves. doesn't this mean anything according to you?

 

[forest]

next to that. if people would stop eating meat, there would be way more food for people in need of food. animals that are bred for meat eet loads and loads of vegetables and grains.

it's just not logical, eating meat. don't you get confronted with that aspect of life when you trip?

 

[HeartCore]

While I do completely agree with everything you say, it does not help me become a vegetarian. I have been thinking about it for a long time but somehow I never make it real.

Untill now, the shrooms did not bring it up. Maybe its because this is something I already know and choose to ignore.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention again. Maybe I will reconsider (again) and become a vegetarian because no doubt about it, eating meat is cruel.

 

[petfles]

What is your opinion about fish?
I started to hate synthetic food, fake sugar etc. Food should contain sunlight, fresh. Meat is something to debate about. I almost never eat it, it stays in your body for days and days, very hard to digest. But my brother always says meat stimulated our evolution as a human being we are now. He makes a point.
You know the feeling of seeking healthy food after a mushroom trip? It seems like you can suddenly see which food is glowing with energy. I trust this instinct and would like to adapt this lifestyle in the future. Maybe i'm wrong but it seems like wisdom comes with a clear understanding of nature and its reason. Not to think about our food, not to think about anything is what is best for our economy. Why question something if you are feeling well? Yes, we are just like pigs and cows condiotioned to be productive. Look at someones face if you ask them to think about what they are eating, it is the same downer as to tell someone they will die someday. 'I just do because i don't like to think about it.'

 

[Jakobien]

I once read that human beings are plant eaters. Our teeth are shaped for eating plant material, not meat. Second, our intestines are longer than those of any animal, this is for the (slow) digestion of vegs, while eating meat requires short intestines because it gets rotten sooner.

Then i knew why i feel better being a vegetarian. :D

I made up my mind about it definately in India...soooo much good vegetarian food. Unfortunately in many places in the world focus is on meat dishes :( :( Even a few friends of mine started eating meat again because of this. :shock:

How to make a change??

 

[Jakobien]

What is your opinion about fish?
I started to hate synthetic food, fake sugar etc. Food should contain sunlight, fresh. Meat is something to debate about. I almost never eat it, it stays in your body for days and days, very hard to digest. But my brother always says meat stimulated our evolution as a human being we are now. He makes a point.You know the feeling of seeking healthy food after a mushroom trip? It seems like you can suddenly see which food is glowing with energy. I trust this instinct and would like to adapt this lifestyle in the future. Maybe i'm wrong but it seems like wisdom comes with a clear understanding of nature and its reason. Not to think about our food, not to think about anything is what is best for our economy. Why question something if you are feeling well? Yes, we are just like pigs and cows condiotioned to be productive. Look at someones face if you ask them to think about what they are eating, it is the same downer as to tell someone they will die someday. 'I just do because i don't like to think about it.'

I think how we've developed has to do with the age of technological development we live in. There have been many ages before where other things were developing strongly. It was predicted by the maya's (and many others i suppose).

What else you are saying i almost totally agree. But i feel people start to think more and more about it. Synthetic foods, conservatives, the supermarket is not a godlike supplier anymore...

 

[hi]

I'm not a vegan, and if I had the choice, I'd rasie my own food so I knew where it was coming from. Sometimes buying from the shelf seems unsettling as I've worked in a meathouse and I know there is a small majority of people who handle it, uncorrectly.

My Grandma is a vegan though. She eats the tofu, and she is even making wine out of dandilions and eating the leaves in salad (I'm not kidding). Good for her, but not for me. She's all about organic living.

It's not for me though. I like my meat and if I stop, that still isn't going to stop the fact that 10,000 pigs and cows die in a single plant every day. Even if half the world stops, the prices will just go down, more available, and people will probably just get fatter. If anything, I'm helping the fat from becoming fatter. :D J/K

Good for you though.

 

[ararat]

I once read that human beings are plant eaters. Our teeth are shaped for eating plant material, not meat.

wrong, our teeth in the front rows are made for meat, so humans are both carnivores and herbivores.

she is even making wine out of dandilions and eating the leaves in salad (I'm not kidding).

many people here in austria do/did that. I don't know how it tastes, but it can't be that bad :)


I never really thought about becoming a vegetarian, but I don't like red meat anyway, but I like chicken and turkey (and fish). But I thought many times about making my own garden with tomatos, paprika, potatos etc., would be really cool :) I think I will do that when I have enough time for something like that

 

[alice]

I'm not a vegan, and if I had the choice, I'd rasie my own food so I knew where it was coming from. Sometimes buying from the shelf seems unsettling as I've worked in a meathouse and I know there is a small majority of people who handle it, uncorrectly.

My Grandma is a vegan though. She eats the tofu, and she is even making wine out of dandilions and eating the leaves in salad (I'm not kidding). Good for her, but not for me. She's all about organic living.

It's not for me though. I like my meat and if I stop, that still isn't going to stop the fact that 10,000 pigs and cows die in a single plant every day. Even if half the world stops, the prices will just go down, more available, and people will probably just get fatter. If anything, I'm helping the fat from becoming fatter. :D J/K

Good for you though.

you can't expect to change the world with one did, you can only do your little bit. if everybody thinks like you then nothing will ever change, but if everyone is busy with changing himself and more and more people start doing it then things might change.

alice :wink:

 

[alice]

i guess when each of us had to kill the animals we eat we would eat less meat because we would be confronted with the suffering of the animals.
like this is too easy, there are people doing the dirty work for us.

i normally eat fish in the summer when i go to portugal, i do it because i'm selfish and think it's good for my brain.
i rarely eat meat (be it chicken, or cow or pig) only very seldom i do so, when my body says"hey! stop now with the vegetarian bullshit! i need some other form of substance here!!", then i eat some meat, and my apetite awakes again, and i eat vegetables and tofu again with a lot more pleasure.

i guess we're all different, i tried soja milk, and no meat for years, no egs, and then i decided that i was too skinny and needed to find my own diet, doing my best to respect the animals, and feeling guilty everytime i eat some chicken. i love chicken, they are beautiful sensitive animals, i love visiting them in the farms, not to mention cows, who are great too! i could never kill a cow myself.

also, i think different types of blood have different needs, and some people can really not stand vegetables , and i hate fruit, for example.

as for the teath, with millions of years of meat eating, i think they developed by now to adapt to what we eat. i also heard that our intestins (long) are not proper for getting rid of meat, and that's why over the years people develop a big belly, full of indigested meat.

:wink:
alice

 

[alice]

--- first i want to make clear that i do not think that you can say one way of life is better than the other, and thus i'm not trying to convince people of anything--

But, when i think of expanding your consiousness, i think of being aware of you actions, and that actions have concequences.

Are there any vegetarians or vegans here?
it is allready proven that abstaining from meat and deary isn't unhealthy, even in a lot of cases more healthy. and if not necessary, then why would you cause all this pain and bloodshed to all these animals?

i was very surprised not finding any topics about this here.
the bible says: thy shall not kill.
the Mazatec indians abstained from meat, dairy, alcohol and tabacco 4 days before a shroomtrip. to clean themselves. doesn't this mean anything according to you?

yes i have read that you get into a higher state of awareness when you stop eating meat, witches do it when they need to do great magic, you get more spiritual when you don't eat animals.

i felt very light and calm when i stopped eating meat (about 10 years ago).

also there's the karma thing, it's bad karma to eat animals that suffered during their lifes and deaths. not only were they suffering when they were alive because they were not free (oh my god, the chicken are products these days, in the factories, they're not beings anymore!!) as well as when they are physically abused and killed with the inflict of pain. then we eat this unhappy and contracted meat... huuuummm!! that should do us a lot of good!!

alice :wink:

 

[tryptonaut]

I hardly eat meat anymore, almost nothing, especially not pig meat - it was directly influenced by a strong shroom trip where I had a pig look into my eyes and from that moment on I knew I can't be supporting the industrial meat production anymore.
I am not a vegetarian, I still eat fish (which I know isn't exactly environmentally friendly either with all what's going on on the big fishing-ships who empty the seas of everything). I feel my body needs some meat-like substance from time to time (humans are NOT herbivores, we are omnivores, like pigs and bears, for example).
Sometimes I do eat meat (like once a month at most) but only chicken. It just doesn't feel that bad to me like pig or cow.
I very rarely eat some pig or cow meat when I "have to" - let's say somebody cooked a nice meal and invites me and I feel it would be kind of offensive to say "no thanks" (it's hard to explain my spiritual reasons for not eating meat to say my girlfriend's grandma - she'd just think I was weird or something...)

The most important thing for me is to reduce the amount of meat I eat to very very little and, if I eat meat once in a while, support bio-meat production where the animals are allowed to lead a normal life without pain until they are killed.

The industrial production of meat and the accompanying pain and suffering is just plain wrong, I can't be supporting that! However I think it doesn't hurt my karma when I know that the living conditions of an animal were fair and it led a happy life until it was quickly killed - I have to be thankful for this meat, enjoy it as a special gift once in a while, then it's ok.


By the way I got these pictures haunting me recently from a documentary about Sri Lanka (I'm not exactly sure it was Sri Lanka, I didn't see the whole thing) where those people were killing dogs to sell them on the market - they slowly beat them to death with clubs (the meat is supposed to taste better because of the adrenaline released) and then, even when they were still living, fried their hair away with fire. How can people do that? I get nightmares from only watching it on television.

 

[forest]

yes, it is proved, in the beginning we didn't eeat meat, but our teeth adapted.

''YOU MUST BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE WORLD''

- GHANDI

 

[BooYa]

i still eat meat but i'm thinking about it to become a vegetarian (im too young and my body can endure much more unhealthy food so i enjoy meat now for as long as i can:) )
i don't drink any alcohol or cafeine drinks anymore and i stopped eating microwave dinner and it really improved my life
body and mind working together strangely enough
food and drinks change dramaticly

 

[forest]

about the fish, i understand that some people think/or it is so, that it is good for your brain. but a life is a life, fish or cow. if you want to kill some fish to make yourself smarter, it's your choice.

but i believe strongly in karma, the law of this world, to my opinion. i kill muskitoes sometimes, but i make a difference in the consciousness of a creature.
some creatures have way more consciousness than others, with a human being, the karma you make, when killing one, is huge. with a muscito it is small. but still also the ''lower'' life forms should be appreciated and respected i think.

some people try to be vegetarian or vegan, after a few years they start eating meat again, because of physical wellcare. this is logical and reasonable.

but there are allso people who's doctor tells them to stop eating deary or a lot less meat, for they're wellbeing. and a lot of people feel better when stopping. it depends on how one is made i guess.

ah tryptonaut, you talk about pig meat, you are right. pig meat is really bad i think, i read a lot about it that said it helps creating a lot of diseases.

 

[BooYa]

well you eat vegetables too and you even smoke weed and salvia just to make you high or you eat shrooms to make you trip but don't plants live too? aren't they a lower lifeform (maybe even bigger lifeform)?
best thing should be to eat what we catch and need to eat so we can function but you know different times different lives i guess

 

[patilan420]

To be or not to be vegetarian
is a matter of choice, yes .
But eating meat is unnatural for the humans,
even cow or pig can be forced to eat meat,
but this will make it live worse and shorter.

All the thing we realy nead for the suplementation of our body
we can get from plant sources like polen, hemseed, olives and avocados.
from the meat we can get some things which we do not nead like some extra animal fat some more acidity in the blood and other dirty things.


I stoped eating meat from mammels 5 years ago, chiken meat 3 years ago and fish I have not eaten from more than a year.
I still use milk and cheese,
indeed all the mammels, from cows to tigers drink milk if they have a chance to find some.


Since becoming a vegetarian I feel more happy ,and I stoped getting sick in the winter, which aloud me to stop using not only antibiotics but all the pharmacological shit.

besides, fruits and mushrooms are reproductive organs of the plants and the fungi and are produced specialy to been EATEN.

 

[tryptonaut]

The point is - we need to eat living things in order to live, be it plants or animals. Where you draw the line is your own decision, but you can't eat stones...

What is most important I think is to eat consciously, that means you have to be thankful for the animals which gave their lives to support yours just as you have to be thankful for a mushroom which gave his life to make you see more. This is obviously not possible with industrially produced meat which is why I try to cut out on it.

Many tribal folks see the animals they hunt as their spiritual brothers or even deities, they praise and thank them. I think this is the right way: make eating meat something special and be aware of the animal that gave their life for you - and this only works if you are sure the animals were treated right while they were alive.

 

[forest]

but don't you think there is no way you can compare the awareness of suffering when killing an animal or a plant?
sure i believe a plant has a spirit with a consciousness, but that works on a different level.

if you kill a person, wich was treated right in life, and (to your words) you make something special about killing him, and being aware of the human that ''gave'' his/her life for you. does this make it right?

i understand/agree what you are saying is a better way of eating meat, but still, just as with a person, it is unnassesary, and doesn't make the fact that you killed a creauture anny better.

 

[HeartCore]

well you eat vegetables too and you even smoke weed and salvia just to make you high or you eat shrooms to make you trip but don't plants live too? aren't they a lower lifeform (maybe even bigger lifeform)?
best thing should be to eat what we catch and need to eat so we can function but you know different times different lives i guess

Well plants developed a certain strategy related to how they multiply. Very often, animals carry plant seeds in or on their bodies, this way helping the plants survive. If I am correct, there even is a very interesting theory about consiousness and plants stating that animals are invented by plants to help them colonize the planet.

So its in the strategy of a lof of plants to be eaten in order to survive.

But there's more, plants and fungi containing alkaloids that have a profound effect on primates. If those plants dont want to be eaten, why evolve and keep such a compound?

Plants only have advantages when they are eaten, if they are poisonous, they will be left alone, if they are nutritious (physically or mentally), chances are that some lifeform will pick them up and put energy in their continuation.

Makes pefect sense and I'm not stoned yet ;)

just as you have to be thankful for a mushroom which gave his life to make you see more.

I dont agree with this. The mushroom doesnt give its life. You are eating its fruiting body which is easily replaced in a few days. The organism below (mycelium network) stays intact. That doesnt mean you shouldnt be thankful though ;)