This Goddess and the Occultocracy

[zezt]

as much as I love Alan, it has to be said that he was an alcoholic

why does it need to be said? what are you bringing on the table by saying it? it's like you just disqualified all his teachings by casually mentioning that little factoid. I personally don't care that he indulged in drinking, because I, you and everyone else indulges in all kinds of stuff all the time. I can be called a pothead (as most of the members of this forum) and it's just a word.

read this, if you have the time.

No it's not just a 'word' it is an actuality. If you are having a habit that is life threatening and also effects those around you etc, it is not just a word but an actuality!

I love Alan. Alan Watts' book, Cloudhidden Whereabouts Unknown was THE book that helped me integrate my LSD experiences and the trials and tribulations that followed such powerful experiences for a young 15 year old kid who was struggling with the usual shit of adolescence. I found the book some years later, soon after Alan's death. hence the title of the book.

I searched and searched authors, gurus, but it was his book, which I found in a bookshop, that only made sense, and I went on to read many others of his books. So don't think I mentioned it lightly, or to put him down.

Listen. If he were alive, do you not think I wouldn't mention it....? Would I treat him as some guru (a role which Alan very much rejected, which I also love him for) where you turn a blind eye to contradictions etc? No, I would of course want to talk about it, because I would be concerned about his health. Because I love him.

Have you ever had a very close person in your life who had drink problem? I have. And I know what it can do, and all about it. AND I know what a blessing it is when they get help.

I remember in one of his books Alan was talking about 'spiritual beings' and how they have been said to shine forth a very bright light, and he was talking about what he'd do if an angel or Jesus appeared...? And he said he would first ask them if they'd turn the light down a bit so they could talk 8)

Cool. So in that spirit I relate to everyone. NOone is so 'superior' I feel I cannot ask them questions, especially about shit that disturbs me. And if I found out Alan was going through a bottle of alcohol a day do you not think I wouldn't want to talk about it. Especially since what he talked of contradicted such a dire need to escape though such a toxic liquer!

I would also ask YOU, why are you a 'pothead'?

And I speak from experience. I have given it up for just over 2 years from a LONG LONG habit of every day from 15 years old religiously. Sometimes putting my life at risk to buy it. Before that it was ciggies from being 10!! So you dont need to tell me about habit. I grew up not knowing being with people without some fukin drug!

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I didn't know about Alan's alcoholism. I'm now trying to read up about it, to see when it started etc.

This is what I found:

Watts lived his later years at times on a houseboat in Sausalito on San Francisco Bay and at times in a secluded cabin on Mount Tamalpais. Laden with social and financial responsibilities, he struggled increasingly with alcohol addiction, which probably shortened his life. In October 1973 he returned from an exhausting European lecture tour. Watts died of heart failure in his sleep at his home on Mt. Tamalpais the following month at the age of 58.

And:

Alan Watts was also an internally consistent individual. He lived on a houseboat in Sausalito and seemed content to indulge in alcohol and any women that his fame swept ashore. He did not start his own religion or hawk tapes and seminars during pledge breaks. He was a rascal and freely admitted it. He never promised happiness or anything concrete and repeatedly denied being any kind of guru. He offered a way of viewing the world and his audience was free to take it or leave it. He seemed at peace with the inherent futility of his actions, attempting to commit to words what was essentially wordless.

And:

Today Watts' writings and recorded talks still shimmer with an visionary lucidity. But though Watts took the Beatniks to task for their druggy, rebel Zen, he himself did not exactly behave like the sober spiritual master many took him for. A notorious womanizer and hardcore alcoholic, Watts embodied the full contradictions of the countercultural seeker, a boundless and excessive spirit who sailed beyond the boundaries of conventional morality. Though he wrote frankly about the need to balance mysticism and sensuality — to be "both angel and animal with equal devotion" — his hymns to spontaneity can sometimes seem like justifications for license and his own lax engagement with formal spiritual practice. When Stiles met him, the Brit was deeply in his cups, spouting obscene limericks. "I liked him immediately." But Stiles was also astonished at the amount of alcohol Watts consumed. "I asked myself how can anyone consume a fifth of vodka every day and live." When the middle-aged Watts died in the Mandala in 1973, Stiles had his answer: you can't.

 

[zezt]

In a 1930 New York Times article,[60] Einstein distinguished three styles which are usually intermixed in actual religion. The first is motivated by fear and poor understanding of causality, and hence invents supernatural beings. The second is social and moral, motivated by desire for love and support. Einstein noted that both have an anthropomorphic concept of God. The third style, which Einstein deemed most mature, is motivated by a deep sense of awe and mystery. He said, "The individual feels ... the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves in nature ... and he wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole." Einstein saw science as an antagonist of the first two styles of religion, but as a partner of the third style.

This is all very complex! For a start, Einstein is not the speaker for 'truth. Even his scientific theories are being challenged by some sources now.
I want to number the points you made so I can try and answer them clearly:

1) "The first is motivated by fear and poor understanding of causality, and hence invents supernatural beings."

Yes it is true that many religionists have anthromorphisized 'God' and 'gods', and the 'Devil' and 'demons'. In doing so this has caused much conflict. Ie., 'my God' versus ' your God' and so on. But we also have Islam that doesn't allow images of 'God' but is just as dogmatic and oppressive as those that do. And in the East we have abstract concepts of 'Oneness' vs the 'many'. And in science we have theories which are myths!

Now listen up. Just because all that above can be negative does not mean that Imagination is somehow wrong. Let me explain:

Science, like orthodox religion, will not take seriously a reality we may call 'Daimonic Reality' (Patrick Harpur). This is a reality where one can experience UFOs, ETs, being 'abducted', seeing faeries, ghosts, spirits, having OBEs, NDEs, etc etc. All of this people have reported experiencing. Including me. And it is very 'real'.
But what both orthodox science and orthodox religion share is dismissal of this dimension of experience.

For religion it can be demonizing it, and for official science it can include dismissal, ridicule, and pathologizing such experience. But crucial to understand is that both orthodox religion and science suppress it! And such suppression fostering repression can bring dire consequences, and it is doing!! because it is suppressing natural reality.

2) "The second is social and moral, motivated by desire for love and support. Einstein noted that both have an anthropomorphic concept of God."

It is more manipulated by an elite that opportunistically uses this deep need we have for love and support which nature gives, and abstracts this need to mean a patriarchal god, and/or saviour invented by mythmaking elites.

3) "The third style, which Einstein deemed most mature, is motivated by a deep sense of awe and mystery. He said, "The individual feels ... the sublimity and marvelous order which reveal themselves in nature ... and he wants to experience the universe as a single significant whole." Einstein saw science as an antagonist of the first two styles of religion, but as a partner of the third style."

I agree that a deep sense of awe and mystery is vital. But what Einstein fails to see is that science is antagonistic to what he claims from the start off! As I have explained brielfy in point 1. IF 'science' does not include anomalies of experience as described in an understand way and in the spirit of awe and mystery then it is an oppressor as was its predecessor, orthodox religion.


[quote:3rc2henq]now with this occult symbolism theory of new world order taken over by sorcerers and enmy's and such, a very dogmatic view which i will clearly dismiss imediatley. here a perfect site for such view's and conspericies. http://www.thewatcherfiles.com

OK, what first hits the eye from that garish site is 'ETs' isn't it. And with that most likely will be included David Ickian theories of Draconian reptiles who are in a kind of hybrid shapeshifting relationship with the global elite.
Well, if you pay attention to this thread, I have made it very clear that I do not share those notions at all. In fact all that myth is coming from the New Age agenda which is part and parcel with the global elite, and their plans for a New World Order.
So I need to make a clear distinction between that, and my understanding of a proper investigation of the Occultocracy, because as said that is their myth they are playing us with. So not to get caught up. But to closely examine it.

Now, this doesn't mean to say that experiences with UFOs and 'ETs' might not happen in daimonic reality! As can be so experiencing faeries and whatnot. But not to literalize it.
I am also no claiming that the powers that be do not possess extraordinary advanced technology!

Also most of us here should already know that symbolism is the language of the subconscious mind, i can vouch that there is no cult/sorcerer or any bad witch or pagan doing any kind of mind control or NLP, once again modern myth turned into conspiricy although i do agree sheeple can be very easily manipulated for their lack of knowledge not only of themselves, but of also the world and things alike. as a pagan myself and my studies in the occult i say there is no "enemy" or such childish dogmatic view of such a deceiving conspiricy agaisnt the human race.

It is one thing to 'vouch' and another thing to provide proof for the assertions you make.
We are not saying that symbolism isn't language for the subconscious mind. That is the point. That there exist a group that know very well about manipulating the subconscious mind and are doing so on different levels. So for example, have you heard of Edward Bernays? You must watch this video about him if you haven't! http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=t ... e+century#
Because it shows how they have sought to manipulate the 'masses' without their knowledge, subconsciously. And what I am exploring in this thread is another level of mindcontrol the Occultocracy use.

To make things simple, "if" there was an enemy, it would be the government, not just the us, but other allied nations that gained such an ego after ww2, for governments hold power/control/ give and take restrictions? rules? law? and even limit freedom, ofcourse the last thing any government wants is to lose control of its sheeple as long as it promisses to take away all the scary's, the death fearing unknown of human potential in all sects of mind, i have talked to quite a few ppl who find such subjects boring, useless, and most often say at the end of their dismissive statement, ignorance is bliss.

You are kind of agreeing with me now :) As for so-called apathetic people who like nothing better than sticking their heads in sand? More fool them. SOME of us have to do the work of unraveling this mess. Whilst they dissapear up their hedonistic arses. But doing so doesn't make the crises go anywhere. And they should think of their children, or all children, and all species, and earth, and not wallow in selfishness. otherwise next breath they may let their beloved child go off to one of the elite's wars!

At the moment the only thing that comes to mind of an impiring image of occult symbolism in history and in our modern culture is the post of i beleive snips from the Prometheus comic and the explanation of the tarot representing the major changes in history and predictions of future change, by CaduceusMercurius . I forget which thread it was in but if you read it, i will provide you with a more posivtive view point of the occult integrated in the past and present.

[/quote:3rc2henq]

I have not seen it. But I do not trust so-called prophecies whose intent it sems is to make us accept what is going on. One has to know who is advertizing such messages and for what purpose. Better to keep very aware what is actually going on, and respect your feelings. And freedom of investigation.[/b]

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I posted those images of Promethea in the Tarot & entheogens thread. It wasn't really a prophesy though.

For religion it can be demonizing it, and for official science it can include dismissal, ridicule, and pathologizing such experience. But crucial to understand is that both orthodox religion and science suppress it! And such suppression fostering repression can bring dire consequences, and it is doing!! because it is suppressing natural reality.

Indeed!

Well, if you pay attention to this thread, I have made it very clear that I do not share those notions at all. In fact all that myth is coming from the New Age agenda which is part and parcel with the global elite, and their plans for a New World Order.

I think the New Age is pretty much self-generated and self-maintained. "They" may try to direct it in certain directions, but to me New Age is simply the result of East meeting West because of improved means of transportation in the 20th century. Indian gurus were eager to spread their methods and ideas in the UK and USA, which some did with great success. Likewise British and American celebrities and numerous hippies were very eager to travel to the East and become converted. Similarly LSD-25 had a major influence on the New Age movement which cannot be attributed to intent of a certain elite. Stories of aliens and spaceships were bound to develop with the invention of airplanes and our increasing understanding of the solar system and planets in other solar systems. In fact there were already numerous stories like that in ancient texts such as the Veda's, which describe ancient airplanes, spaceships and extensive interplanetary travel, with many types of beings, including shapeshifting reptilian humanoids, like Ravana and other rakshasas in the Ramayana epic.

So no, I'm quite certain David Icke is genuinely deluded about this particular matter, and no one deluded him but himself. Unless one knows the purpose of myth, there is a tendency to take such stories as historical accounts.

 

[magickmumu]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor :idea:

 

[magickmumu]

The tree gods of the so called Occultocratcy . Money, Power, Control.

 

[????????]

well zest, now I know were you're coming from. It's just the way you said it that irked me a bit.

I don't consider myself a "pothead" --well, not with the pejorative connotation. I made the argument I can be called one in a kind of ad hominem trick, to belittle my claims.

hey CM did you read that link I posted? I'm going to just post it here again:

http://alanwatts.tribe.net/thread/4748b ... 1182732d32

 

[zezt]

I posted those images of Promethea in the Tarot & entheogens thread. It wasn't really a prophesy though.

For religion it can be demonizing it, and for official science it can include dismissal, ridicule, and pathologizing such experience. But crucial to understand is that both orthodox religion and science suppress it! And such suppression fostering repression can bring dire consequences, and it is doing!! because it is suppressing natural reality.

Indeed!

[quote:3iwo8zem]Well, if you pay attention to this thread, I have made it very clear that I do not share those notions at all. In fact all that myth is coming from the New Age agenda which is part and parcel with the global elite, and their plans for a New World Order.

I think the New Age is pretty much self-generated and self-maintained. "They" may try to direct it in certain directions, but to me New Age is simply the result of East meeting West because of improved means of transportation in the 20th century. Indian gurus were eager to spread their methods and ideas in the UK and USA, which some did with great success. Likewise British and American celebrities and numerous hippies were very eager to travel to the East and become converted. Similarly LSD-25 had a major influence on the New Age movement which cannot be attributed to intent of a certain elite. Stories of aliens and spaceships were bound to develop with the invention of airplanes and our increasing understanding of the solar system and planets in other solar systems. In fact there were already numerous stories like that in ancient texts such as the Veda's, which describe ancient airplanes, spaceships and extensive interplanetary travel, with many types of beings, including shapeshifting reptilian humanoids, like Ravana and other rakshasas in the Ramayana epic.

So no, I'm quite certain David Icke is genuinely deluded about this particular matter, and no one deluded him but himself. Unless one knows the purpose of myth, there is a tendency to take such stories as historical accounts.[/quote:3iwo8zem]

I understand the the so-called New Age mainly derives from the Theosophical
Movement :

" The Racist Legacy of Alice Bailey

The New Age movement has inherited many of its reactionary notions from the Theosophists. The Theosophical movement, founded by the Russian aristocrat Helena Blavatsky in the USA in 1875, was THE New Age movement of its time and was very influential. Alice Bailey and Rudolf Steiner, both of whose thinking has reached deep into the New Age psyche, started out as Theosophists.

Madame Blavatsky first channeled the so-called Hierarchy of Masters, occult adepts, Mahatmas or the White Brotherhood, who are said to be immortal, and to materialise and dematerialise anywhere at will. More recently New Age channeler Phyllis Schlemmer, for instance, has stated that her "Council of 9" are the same Secret Masters that Blavatsky and Alice Bailey channeled. These Masters are said to rule the world by occult means." Sinister New Age Channelings
Who or What is speaking? http://www.monicasjoo.org/artic/channel ... lings1.htm

Already, in Indian culture we have a caste system which believes in karma and 'transmigration', and that if you are poor you are working out your 'karma' (which will include literally shovelling the shit of the rich ones who believe that is their karma!).
And this dodgy concept translates into New Age thinking as the further dodgy concept of " you create your own reality", meaning that if you are poor, abused, oppressed, raped, vulnerable, 'mentally ill', etc that that is your own fault because you are creating your misfortune by how you think! And this idea is great for the ruling classes, because then they can blame the people they are screwing left right and centre and not feel any guilt for lack of compassion and empathy and understanding and abuse and oppression and genocide!

As for LSD. It would be naive to imagine that the Ocultocracy did not try and infiltrate the psychedelic generation of the 1960s. Of course they did. For example, MK ULTRA and their desire to use LSD for mindcontrol. The fact that it was the CIA who made sure vast quantities of LSD made it to the streets. And the mass promotion of Eastern idealistic beliefs, and New Age beliefs.

Now some investigators like of course, the Christians, who are rabidly anti any psychedelics which they demonize, but even Alan Watt, who believes that psychedelic experience is wrong.
Here is a good critique of Alan Watt. Let me say though that although I agree with the authors views regarding Watts' anit-psychedelic stance, I dont agree where he believes Watt is anti New Age, bcause I am anti-New Age. I believe Watt plays into the hands of the New Age, maybe unknowingly. I also am not a fan of Ken Wilbur, nor his Integral theory, but here's a taste of what Watt believes about the New Age and psychedelics:

" "psychedelics were released to induce mass psychosis and fragmented personalities which are easier to control"

""Some of these drugs make permanent physical changes within the brain itself"

""leary took a paycheck from the CIA to tell people to take LSD"

""crowley was sent out to make psychedelics interesting to youth"

"crowley wasn't so dumb to take psychedelics from a shaman himself but he popularized it" http://dedroidify.blogspot.com/2007/12/ ... nsion.html

So you can see Alan Watt is just a bit more than confused regarding the vast significance of psychedelic experience. Although we share a critique for the New Age, he tends to throw big baby out with the bathwater by affording the occultocracy such vast power that they even are in control of our psychedelic experience . Feel me?

Anyone who understands how cults work know that when people ecstacize they can become highly suggestive. Because their bodyminds are very flluid. But what many critics of ecstatic movements fail to dig is that it is not ecstasy -- a natural human/animal right, and experience at fault -- it is who is being allowed to manipulate this experience. And who is allowing themselves to BE manipulated.
If ecstasy is intelligently understood. And the intent of an ecstatic sacred experience is deep insight and bonding with nature, and animals, and community, then that can only be a beneficial experience.

 

[restin]

Already, in Indian culture we have a caste system which believes in karma and 'transmigration', and that if you are poor you are working out your 'karma' (which will include literally shovelling the shit of the rich ones who believe that is their karma!).
And this dodgy concept translates into New Age thinking as the further dodgy concept of " you create your own reality", meaning that if you are poor, abused, oppressed, raped, vulnerable, 'mentally ill', etc that that is your own fault because you are creating your misfortune by how you think! And this idea is great for the ruling classes, because then they can blame the people they are screwing left right and centre and not feel any guilt for lack of compassion and empathy and understanding and abuse and oppression and genocide!

mhm, you don't show any cultural understanding or respect, sorry. You argue against any culture, Christian, Hindu or whatever else but also attack the new age. What the hell do you want? Anarchy on a global scale? Technocracy? Communism? Or are you just attacking anyone you can blame?

 

[zezt]

Already, in Indian culture we have a caste system which believes in karma and 'transmigration', and that if you are poor you are working out your 'karma' (which will include literally shovelling the shit of the rich ones who believe that is their karma!).
And this dodgy concept translates into New Age thinking as the further dodgy concept of " you create your own reality", meaning that if you are poor, abused, oppressed, raped, vulnerable, 'mentally ill', etc that that is your own fault because you are creating your misfortune by how you think! And this idea is great for the ruling classes, because then they can blame the people they are screwing left right and centre and not feel any guilt for lack of compassion and empathy and understanding and abuse and oppression and genocide!

mhm, you don't show any cultural understanding or respect, sorry. You argue against any culture, Christian, Hindu or whatever else but also attack the new age. What the hell do you want? Anarchy on a global scale? Technocracy? Communism? Or are you just attacking anyone you can blame?

I am challenging beliefs/myths which I consider toxic, and not benevolent for community, animals, and earth.

If you want to follow them then you are free to, but I choose to question them in deep ways.

 

[????????]

who the hell is Alan Watt?

 

[zezt]

who the hell is Alan Watt?

see that thing in front of you? It is a revolutionary device connected to the 'Internet'. When you type on it a name etc you get LOADS of info. Hey...why not try it? :roll:

 

[restin]

I am challenging beliefs/myths which I consider toxic, and not benevolent for community, animals, and earth.

And YOU think that your value system came from nowhere? It just fell before your feet?

You are not challenging them, you are only projecting one way of thinking onto other cultures, which is wrong. You cannot just say "some people invited the caste system because they were greedy for money and power. ...the hell? That's absolutely wrong and shows no respect,knowledge for the culture there. Even today, greed is only a part of some, few people in this world. Every culture has its own value system. A lot of people think that Chinese are brain-washed and stupid because Europeans don't understand why they think that society is more important then themselves. They just don't understand their value sysetm. You say you know Watts, he also tried to explain to us the values of the East.

 

[Meduzz]

I am challenging beliefs/myths which I consider toxic, and not benevolent for community, animals, and earth.

All of them are. The dose makes the poison. Be critical to whatever system especially your own.

 

[zezt]

I am challenging beliefs/myths which I consider toxic, and not benevolent for community, animals, and earth.

And YOU think that your value system came from nowhere? It just fell before your feet?

You are not challenging them, you are only projecting one way of thinking onto other cultures, which is wrong. You cannot just say "some people invited the caste system because they were greedy for money and power. ...the hell? That's absolutely wrong and shows no respect,knowledge for the culture there. Even today, greed is only a part of some, few people in this world. Every culture has its own value system. A lot of people think that Chinese are brain-washed and stupid because Europeans don't understand why they think that society is more important then themselves. They just don't understand their value sysetm. You say you know Watts, he also tried to explain to us the values of the East.

And I repeat to you. IF you so love these oppressive cultures you are supporting well go and live in them. Not to say that our very own culture aint oppressive, but at least I know I AM oppressed. You seem not to, and act as an apologist for oppresive regimes and belief systems. I do not, and challenge them.
If I dont agree in slavery I speak out. Why do you find this so impossible to understand?

 

[zezt]

I am challenging beliefs/myths which I consider toxic, and not benevolent for community, animals, and earth.

All of them are. The dose makes the poison. Be critical to whatever system especially your own.

I am being

 

[zezt]

If you live in a culture that mutilates women as some kind of 'religious' law, then you stand up against that.

If you live in a culture that hangs males for being in a gay relationship, you stand up. Or else it goes on doesn't it?

People here in the 'west' imagine they are living (if they are unconscious) in a free society. OBVIOUSLY that is not so. So you stand up and speak out!

 

[Forkbender]

Society is never free. The idea that society should be free is the biggest cage of them all. On a personal level you can experience freedom, but you need to cultivate yourself in order to do so.

 

[zezt]

Society is never free. The idea that society should be free is the biggest cage of them all. On a personal level you can experience freedom, but you need to cultivate yourself in order to do so.

And that idea and apathy, and elitism, I feel, is the danger of Eastern forms of religious indoctrination, including Buddhism!

One time America had no fences, not even for animals. Imagine that! Native peoples will let you know this was real. And then gradually fences were put up by the whiteman, and native peoples were herded into smaller and smaller cages, and of course wanted natural return to freedom.

But belief systems like Christianity, and Islam, and Judaism, and Hinduism, and Buddhism deny this right, and pretend you can be free in a hostile oppressive space. Why? Because they dream of eventual escape from the prison their belief systems create! They have lost contact with the land.

 

[GOD]

Wow !!! So many people with the bored housewife syndrom ?