Suicide

[ophiuchus]

I don't know what's the point with the old testament...

an eye for an eye...

But... isn't it better that the person that is going to kill people in the future dies before he does it?
I just said that it wouldn't pose me a consciousness problem (yes, I should have been more specific). Because, although I would have killed someone, this act would have saved lives which were probably much more valuable.

Well, supposing you could predict that someone will kill in the future, I still think there are other ways to deal with the problem than to do the same. Preventing murder by killing is not going to solve the problem, because the problem isn't the killer, but our society in which killing happens. Haven't you noticed that countries that use death penalties have higher murder rates?

i somewhat agree. that's one sided as well though.. think maybe they have death penalties instituted now is BECAUSE they have higher murder rates? floppy attempt at ethical purging if you ask me

 

[ophiuchus]

life is a cycle, with every color of the spectrum along the circle

 

[Psychoid]

I don't know what's the point with the old testament...

an eye for an eye...

But... isn't it better that the person that is going to kill people in the future dies before he does it?
I just said that it wouldn't pose me a consciousness problem (yes, I should have been more specific). Because, although I would have killed someone, this act would have saved lives which were probably much more valuable.

Well, supposing you could predict that someone will kill in the future, I still think there are other ways to deal with the problem than to do the same. Preventing murder by killing is not going to solve the problem, because the problem isn't the killer, but our society in which killing happens. Haven't you noticed that countries that use death penalties have higher murder rates?

I'm not talking about an eye for an eye, or solving the problem. I'm talking about minimizing the damage while the problem is still present. And of course there are other ways to do it, and we are using it: jails.

 

[IJesusChrist]

If you believe in killing [for any reason], I don't see how you can ever object to suicide, [for any reason].

Don't embrace death as the answer to anything.

 

[Forkbender]

i somewhat agree. that's one sided as well though.. think maybe they have death penalties instituted now is BECAUSE they have higher murder rates? floppy attempt at ethical purging if you ask me

Well, that is not true. States that have abolished the death penalty actually had lower murder rates after a few years.

 

[magickmumu]

I think a plan to kill of the mentally ill is ghoulish. It reminds me of the Nazi,s who started killing psychiatric patient and alcoholics.

 

[Psychoid]

I think a plan to kill of the mentally ill is ghoulish. It reminds me of the Nazi,s who started killing psychiatric patient and alcoholics.

When did we talk about such a plan?
Fork asked a question, and after reflection I came with an idea. I even specified that I didn't actually think it, that it wasn't my opinion. And it didn't even imply a plan to kill the mentally ill people.

If you believe in killing [for any reason], I don't see how you can ever object to suicide, [for any reason].

Don't embrace death as the answer to anything.

YOU DON'T SEE MY POINT.
Killing is only a solution if the consequence of not killing is death of another person.
If there has to be a choice, I prefer the killer killed than the victim.
Of course, those situations are extremely rare. In the 20 years I've been living I've never met one, and don't wish to in the future.
I can't even come up with an example...

EDIT: What about killing for self defence? If a robber enters you house and has a gun, you wake up, take a weapon (lets say a gun), and you meet the robber face to face, and he raises his gun to shoot, wouldn't you try to shoot before him? And don't tell me "well you just shoot him in the leg/arm" or I'll call you stupid.

 

[magickmumu]

A killer is only a killer if he kills someone. You don't get the victim back by killing the killer. :?:
I don't get it.

 

[Psychoid]

I mean killing the killer before he kills... after he killed just put him in a hole for the rest of his life, no use killing him.

EDIT: see my edit in my last post.

EDIT2: In case you haven't understood yet, I think killing is not a choice, and is a solution only when you don't have the choice... If there is another solution then no use killing.

EDIT3: Please quit twisting everything I say in a way that makes me seem like a crazy nazi mumu...

 

[BrainEater]

killing for vengeance or killing every potential killer à la drawing faster and aiming better and catch 'em all??
and killing is never a solution but an option??

 

[Psychoid]

Nobody understands what I'm saying...

 

[BrainEater]

damn..........

 

[magickmumu]

How can you kill a killer before he kills. :?:
This doesn't make sense.

 

[BrainEater]

of course it makes sense if you know "the killer" is goin to kill someone

 

[Psychoid]

of course it makes sense if you know "the killer" is goin to kill someone

Yes, and remember I said it's extremely rare. And that is because even when you know someone is going to kill someone, usually you can stop it by other means than killing him. You can just neutralize him, if you are good at fighting. Or if you have enough time to call the police. Or to get some help. But in situations where you have only a second to react, killing may be acceptable I think. Especially when it's in a self-defence situation. Survival instincts and protection instincts are within (almost) each of us.

But I realize at first when I talked about killing serial killers or serial rapers, I should have taken more time to think before posting...

 

[BrainEater]

thinking before saying something is often beneficial!

peace :weedman:

 

[IJesusChrist]

To be honest psychoid I don't think your opening your mind enough to invision what a killer is thinking, first of all, second, killing is never an answer to anything...

In the end, I don't think one person is more special than another, embrace difference, the 'innocent' in society, are never innocent in reality.

I think you're approaching this subject to bluntly, and no offense intended.

 

[Psychoid]

To be honest psychoid I don't think your opening your mind enough to invision what a killer is thinking

Please explain me what a killer can be thinking? I'm no killer. And unless you are, I don't think you know better than me.

Didn't you know some people actually kill because they like it?
Some people kill because they feel the urge to, for no apparent reason.
Some people kill because they hear voices badgering him to kill someone.
Some people kill to save their family's honor.
Some people kill to steal.
Some people kill for money. It's their job.

I think you're the one putting your head in the sand.

killing is never an answer to anything...

When did I say the opposite?

Seems you missed my point... please reread my last posts.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I have tried to put myself in every persons shoes.

I could kill someone, I can see the path upon which to enter that, but of course I choose not to. These people are still human, and just like all of us, they have ideas and beliefs that don't fit in our society. Killing for fun is a drug addiction, are you going to go around killing people who want to do drugs because they are addicted?

People who hear voices, I of course can't understand - I've never heard voices, but are they still uncurable?

You are looking at killers as inhuman, the people in the movies who are the 'bad guys'. And I know you don't see every killer like this - but really, NO killer is like this. Take this label off...

 

[????????]

^as i see it, this does not matter in psychoid's argument, because it is not that one thinks of another person as an inhuman or "bad guy" but that said person is going to kill you, right now (or someone very close to you), and you happen to have a gun in your hand. then the question is, if you were in this particular scenario, would you pull the trigger? would you choose not to, to not pull the trigger, and then die or watch your mom die, would you really?