Money should be discontinued.

[Jerika_Rain]

I think you just worry too much about the world. Worry about yourself first. Look inwardly before you look outwardly. Do the things YOU need to do to be a completely honest person who lives a thoughtful life. Be mindful of what you are doing and how you are treating the environment and how are are treating other people.

Your scope always seems so broad. Focus on what you have control on and that is your own actions. We can keep money if we just become more accountable to ourselves. One good deed begets another so if you make those life changes, maybe someone else will follow your lead.

Look at it more like that...then MORE people might make positive changes. Stop looking for ALL.

I just think people want to always jump to the big picture without working on the small picture first.

 

[itsscience]

Money should not be discontinued nor can it be discontinued.

Trading as a means of replacing money is completely unworkable and unrealistic.

If I'm a teacher and I want some corn I would have to find a corn farmer who requires a teacher. In order to get to the corn farmer to trade my service for his product I would first have to find a car producer who needs a teacher in order to trade my services for his product. I would then need to find a petrol seller who needs a teacher to trade my services for his petrol. Hang on what does the petrol seller have to trade with an oil producer to get his petrol?

The hippie would then say you don't need a car you could ride a bike - same applies. Well you could always walk, my life would then become a routine of walking daily to get corn in exchange for teaching services. I would quickly die of malnutrition because there simply isn't enough hours in the day to walk around exchanging my teaching services for the wide variety of food stuffs I need for a balanced diet. We haven't yet touched on the other basics needs for survival, shelter and water.

I think we as a species are dying. We are coming to the end of our time. No species lasts for ever and in the context of our history, we don't have much time left. I seriously doubt we can go on like this for 10,000 more years.

 

[Apeiron]

Every ones exchange would be to society as a whole. People would get what ever they require, no question. No one would starve, that's asinine. And even if they did it would still be much less that starve today. Get real.
It's only unrealistic because you don't know nor trust any other possibilities. You're born and bred to use and believe in money. If you grew up on Titan, you would say "liquid water? Yuck!", and I can't blame you for that.
Money is only as valuable as we make it. It's a compressed wool sheet. A good incellator, yes, but what legitimate use does it really have, save perpetuating it's own necessity and making every one treat one another with disgust from the upper eschelon down because of perceived wealth or the lack there of?...
Give me a valid reason why we shouldn't place true value on substance and not material.
Does any one know why everyone in the world could never be rich even if they wanted to? because it's impossible to print enough money. It would create a paradox. If everyone had the same wealth there would be no rich. This doesn't mean people would start placing value on how many oranges or apples they have, poppycock. It just means every one would work in a free society for society, receiving everything they need to live and thrive creatively..
Might it make for a more washed out world than you're use to? No doubt.
But most people attach stress and struggle and conflict to excitement but I'd rather love in a relatively boring world than live in an exciting one.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

You formulate your "solutions" using the narrowest scope possible. You are trying to push what you want, not necessarily what is best and rest assure those are two completely different things.

From other posts your solultions always sound similar. Well instead of babies, if women started birthing lemons with zebra legs, everything would be perfect. And maybe it would. Except women don't have lemons for kids, or zebras, or a combination of the two. So your "solution" is basically null and void.

And it makes it difficult to take you seriously or respect your theories when they are coming from a place of personal desires and literally a dreamer's fantasy without any consideration for anything factual. Presenting something as a "fix" without even considering all the holes in the theory doesn't give you much credibility.

I don't know what happened in your life to make you cast off all sense of practicality and logistics, but it might help you to revist those.

 

[Apeiron]

You formulate your "solutions" using the narrowest scope possible. You are trying to push what you want, not necessarily what is best and rest assure those are two completely different things.

From other posts your solultions always sound similar. Well instead of babies, if women started birthing lemons with zebra legs, everything would be perfect. And maybe it would. Except women don't have lemons for kids, or zebras, or a combination of the two. So your "solution" is basically null and void.

And it makes it difficult to take you seriously or respect your theories when they are coming from a place of personal desires and literally a dreamer's fantasy without any consideration for anything factual. Presenting something as a "fix" without even considering all the holes in the theory doesn't give you much credibility.

I don't know what happened in your life to make you cast off all sense of practicality and logistics, but it might help you to revist those.

I noticed you answered neither of my questions...

 

[Jerika_Rain]

what are the questions? they were hard to identify in that diatribe.

"Give me a valid reason why we shouldn't place true value on substance and not material."

This one? Pretty sure this isn't the argument friend. I'm all for people being judged by their character and their actions and for who they are not what they have. I think the vast majority of people would agree with this.

The argument is that your solutions are borderline ridiculous and sound like projections of your personal ideals...not well thought through, conceivable ones.

I'm just a proponent of viable solutions not ones based on one person's whimsy.

 

[Apeiron]

"..what legitimate use does it really have, save perpetuating it's own necessity and making every one treat one another with disgust from the upper eschelon down because of perceived wealth or the lack there of?..."

 

[Jerika_Rain]

We all see how well socialism has worked in the past haven't we...but ANYWAY

all classes of people have exactly the same wealth. no one has more than their neighbor. What this does is create a sense of security and comfort. When someone works harder than another person, the exact same profit is earned (in whatever capacity we call "profit"). Therefore, there is really no need to work harder than another. If one person carries more of the burden, or more responsibility - like a manager of a plant, or the head of a business - there is really no incentive to carry the needs of that particular position to its peak level. You have thus created a plateau for achievement.

welcome to underachieving, stagnant society. then someone steps up and becomes leader, decides how to distribute wealth, systematically turns it into a dictatorship. soviet union, cuba, north korea, vietman...worked out really well for all of them.

thousands of people die, citizens starve.

the day your "solution" happens is the day that people hand over that which gives them the right to believe what they believe; that which gives them the right to be what they want to be; that which gives them the right to decide for themselves how far they wish to succeed in life; that which gives them the right to practice whatever religion, notion, or idea comes to their mind.

 

[Apeiron]

We all see how well socialism has worked in the past haven't we...but ANYWAY

all classes of people have exactly the same wealth. no one has more than their neighbor. What this does is create a sense of security and comfort. When someone works harder than another person, the exact same profit is earned (in whatever capacity we call "profit"). Therefore, there is really no need to work harder than another. If one person carries more of the burden, or more responsibility - like a manager of a plant, or the head of a business - there is really no incentive to carry the needs of that particular position to its peak level. You have thus created a plateau for achievement.

welcome to underachieving, stagnant society. then someone steps up and becomes leader, decides how to distribute wealth, systematically turns it into a dictatorship. soviet union, cuba, north korea, vietman...worked out really well for all of them.

thousands of people die, citizens starve.

the day your "solution" happens is the day that people hand over that which gives them the right to believe what they believe; that which gives them the right to be what they want to be; that which gives them the right to decide for themselves how far they wish to succeed in life; that which gives them the right to practice whatever religion, notion, or idea comes to their mind.

............... Nope? Didn't think so................

 

[Jerika_Rain]

no clue what that means. what i do know is that myself and everyone else that posted on this thread seem to see the error in your narrow minded thinking. not sure why you can't. probably because you are one of those charming blokes not willing to just admit when they are wrong or when they didn't think something through before speaking.

 

[Apeiron]

Not at all.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

That's the reponse I would expect from someone who doesn't admit flaws in their thoughts, words, and actions.

It's fine to be progressive but don't be ludicrous in trying to be.

 

[Apeiron]

No thats my response because your words and ideas are so weak, it's barely worth the energy it takes to read your messages let alone respond to them. 
I find it truly phenomenal that your thoughts don't collapse from exhaustion in your mind before they manifest through your fingers to type these messages. That, in and of itself, is exceptional but has made it apparent that you are one of numerous broken toys. 
I accept this and regrettably and respectfully decline to engage in further debate with you on the subject...

 

[Jerika_Rain]

sounds like a smashing idea as your foolish pride makes it impossible to discuss all the reasons this is just ridiculous.

maybe someone else can take up the torch to try to enlighten you...it exhausts me and my daughter is hungry...I'm sure she and I can have a much more intelligent conversation.

 

[Apeiron]

Your daughter? perhaps.
You? It'll be a stretch.

 

[itsscience]

Every ones exchange would be to society as a whole. People would get what ever they require, no question. No one would starve, that's asinine. And even if they did it would still be much less that starve today.

How would this be acheived in your view?

To continue with my analogy of the corn farmer and the teacher. By your theory I assume (I assume because you haven't actually offered a pragmatic solution you have merely uttered a dogmatic edict) that I would set up a school and people who want to be taught would come and pay me with the fruits of their labour. So the real estate agent would offer me his services in exchange for my teaching and I don't want to sell my house so I'd then have to transfer my real estate credit to someone who does need it in exchange for a service or good that I did need, all of this would need to be documented somehow so that when a complete stranger turns up on the doorstep of the real estate agent's doorstep saying, "you owe me real estate services" the real estate agent could know that the person had validly acquired the right to the service.

You have offered no pratical solutions at all and you have the audacity to call me asinine. You clearly live in a fantasy world of make believe and you have the audacity to call me asinine. You sit at a computer paid for with money to spout this childish dribble and you have the audacity to call me asinine!

I'll tell you the value of money - it is a creation designed to easily facilitate trade such that all people can have the ability to acquire things that they need or find useful or neither need nor find useful but want anyway. I live in a country that doesn't manufacture computers or electronic parts - money enables me to acquire a computer so that I can engage in increasingly asinine debates with a completely asinine person such as yourself.

Money used to be made of gold and silver to give it an inherent value. The inherent value was derived from the scarcity of the metal and the human effort required to produce that metal. Evolution of the human race saw that slowly the value of a currency became less linked to the value of precious metals and more to the value of the country that issued the currency based on ideas such a gross domestic product, national debt etc.

One downside of money is that enables people like you to have access to a computer and the internet so that you can spread your asinine ideas around so freely and with so little actual thought into the subjects you are writing about.

You seem to think that "society" is some sort of sentient being when you say "everyone's exchange would be to society as a whole". How would society then ensure that a person who lived hundreds of kilometres away from me would then get the commodity or service that I have produced, I guess magical pixies would come and carry it on clouds of faery dust to them - the pixies of course would work for and live on love.

And you have the audacity to call me asinine! You have the audacity to tell others that they are not offering solutions when you have offered none.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Oh man everybody, I can't see real good, is that apeiron or is that Carrot Top?? I should have paid admission when I logged in for this comedy show.

In case you forgot, I'm not the only one to think that this idea should be flushed :toimonster:

But I'm sure you're right and everyone else is always wrong in your world so it's ok.

A-FUCKING-MEN itsscience!!!!!!!

 

[Jerika_Rain]

"the pixies of course would work for and live on love"

LMAO....

 

[itsscience]

To everyone else, I apologise for posting such a heated and angry post because this is supposed to be an exchange between enlightened individuals or at least individuals who are seeking some sort of enlightenment. I just don't suffer fools lightly.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Amen to that too. I am open to alternative, progressive ideas. That's why I read this forum and ultimately joined it. But at some point it becomes diffifult to listen to utter stupidity and be told that you are the one who is foolish.

I will chalk this up as a learning experience and a lesson that I should have more patience for people's ignorance.

I know you think we are just not "enlightened" and don't have an open-mind. What we do have however is a sound mind and I am starting to question that about you. Maybe you need to lay off the psychadelics.

"A fool despises good counsel, but a wise man takes it to heart"