Money should be discontinued.

[Apeiron]

Every ones exchange would be to society as a whole. People would get what ever they require, no question. No one would starve, that's asinine. And even if they did it would still be much less that starve today.

How would this be acheived in your view?

To continue with my analogy of the corn farmer and the teacher. By your theory I assume (I assume because you haven't actually offered a pragmatic solution you have merely uttered a dogmatic edict) that I would set up a school and people who want to be taught would come and pay me with the fruits of their labour. So the real estate agent would offer me his services in exchange for my teaching and I don't want to sell my house so I'd then have to transfer my real estate credit to someone who does need it in exchange for a service or good that I did need, all of this would need to be documented somehow so that when a complete stranger turns up on the doorstep of the real estate agent's doorstep saying, "you owe me real estate services" the real estate agent could know that the person had validly acquired the right to the service.

You have offered no pratical solutions at all and you have the audacity to call me asinine. You clearly live in a fantasy world of make believe and you have the audacity to call me asinine. You sit at a computer paid for with money to spout this childish dribble and you have the audacity to call me asinine!

I'll tell you the value of money - it is a creation designed to easily facilitate trade such that all people can have the ability to acquire things that they need or find useful or neither need nor find useful but want anyway. I live in a country that doesn't manufacture computers or electronic parts - money enables me to acquire a computer so that I can engage in increasingly asinine debates with a completely asinine person such as yourself.

Money used to be made of gold and silver to give it an inherent value. The inherent value was derived from the scarcity of the metal and the human effort required to produce that metal. Evolution of the human race saw that slowly the value of a currency became less linked to the value of precious metals and more to the value of the country that issued the currency based on ideas such a gross domestic product, national debt etc.

One downside of money is that enables people like you to have access to a computer and the internet so that you can spread your asinine ideas around so freely and with so little actual thought into the subjects you are writing about.

You seem to think that "society" is some sort of sentient being when you say "everyone's exchange would be to society as a whole". How would society then ensure that a person who lived hundreds of kilometres away from me would then get the commodity or service that I have produced, I guess magical pixies would come and carry it on clouds of faery dust to them - the pixies of course would work for and live on love.

And you have the audacity to call me asinine! You have the audacity to tell others that they are not offering solutions when you have offered none.

Sorry sir. Never said YOU were asinine..
"no one would starve, that's asinine."
-Meaning starvation-
Apology accepted.
Now I just wrote this short explanation on the fly. So bare with me and keep in mind I'm clearly not an economist.

Youre a citizen.
You work your normal job. 
You work your normal hours.
You're hungry you eat a free balanced diet.
School is free.
You pay no bills.
Your gas is paid.
Goods you need would cost nothing.
Goods you want would cost nothing.
Goods you DONT want would cost nothing.
Governments keep track of production and reception of equal import and export trades. (clearly don't know the economic term for this)

No costs get passed on.
Nobody screws anybody.
If you want anything you get it for nothing. You can't sell it or barely trade the item or give it away because anyone can have it brand new if they really wanted it. 
Your "payment" for your services would be a free existence.
Citizenship and contribution to this society will assure it.

Did I miss anything?
Plausible or no?
Now I admit this system requires extremely honest people through and through. Marijuana legalization would probably help.
Dreamer? Yes
Full of shite? Not any more cuz I just took a dump. :lol:

 

[Apeiron]

Oh yea, I almost forgot.
Money? For what?
Money? What's that?
Money?! That was dumb.
Hey remember when people use to use money? That was asinine...

Substance and logic over material

Ignorance breeds ignorance
Greed breeds greed
Logic breeds logic
Killing breeds killing
Enlightenment... Well, you get the picture.

 

[Apeiron]

Amen to that too. I am open to alternative, progressive ideas. That's why I read this forum and ultimately joined it. But at some point it becomes diffifult to listen to utter stupidity and be told that you are the one who is foolish.

I will chalk this up as a learning experience and a lesson that I should have more patience for people's ignorance.

I know you think we are just not "enlightened" and don't have an open-mind. What we do have however is a sound mind and I am starting to question that about you. Maybe you need to lay off the psychadelics.

"A fool despises good counsel, but a wise man takes it to heart"

...... Excuse me while I regurgitate......

The Rome battles were...

Rome's diabolical plan to spread Christianity as a weapon via the bible that hypnotizes and pacifies any race of people that the Roman's conquered. Through continued and perpetual war throughout since history from the crusades to these recent oil wars they have amassed a virtual relative infinitesimal amount of wealth. The economic worlds capital of capatalistic, western, Christian based, socalled democracy, being exactly where it was three thousand years ago. In Rome, and more specifically, Vatican city. With help of the Roman wars and groups like Templar knights, and their groups and derivatives like the original Free Masons all the way down to Skull and Bones. The Romans have systematic prediction and manipulation of nearly every occurance that happens on their grid of influence and manipulation. THEY are/ they ARE the reason why every citizen of that grid thinks the way they think predicted by their systems almost down to every single thought that we think to form opinions of things that we will never question. This is the reason churches don't pay taxes EVER, ensuring their continued existence in our communities to further brainwash us in times of feared revelations and milk us dry the world dry. 

Jesus Christ is fictitious. Using genocide in murderous rampages to and across the holy lands the Romans stole and hid away a vast knowledge of technology and human history. effectively killing, exchanging or replacing from surrounding villages, every person that would have actually known the real story of manipulation through Christianity to this day. 

They are the reason "diamonds are forever" or "..a girls best friend."(all that money for a pebble? Get real.). They are the reason we get tax breaks when we get married and have a tons of kids that we think we want but don't need in this shrinking choking poluted environment and responsibilities so us and ours rely on their products, the proceeds of which go towards fueling their capitalistic war mongering hamster-wheel. These products, being but not limited to, utilities for hire, food that makes us sick and "medicines" that always seem to have a side effect but scarcely cure. These wheels being countries like Spain during inquisition and conquistadors(hint), the United Stats (yes I meant stats..) and most recently Israel. Which will be the catalyst in the next world war toward Roman world domination and oblivious servitude...

... Oh yea. The Persian empire did the same thing...

I'm sorry what were you saying?..

 

[Apeiron]

Hence the necessity for human mental evolution before self destruction..

Idol worship. Ancient to antiquity.
God/Allah worship. Ancient to present
Hero worship... Jesus. Mohamed. Antiquity to present.
Celebrity and Material worship. Present

Substance and finally logic worship. Future

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Regurgitate is certainly the right description for the word vomit you just spewed forth.

I am reaching for the words to accurately describe how inexplicably stupid you sound in this thread. I hope that your thoughts and opinions you've shared here are not completely indicative of your intelligence, because if they are...watch out, Darwinism will catch up to you fast.

Your arguments are completely unfounded on this topic and your lack of a pragmatic solution as itsscience pointed out makes this not even worth discussing at this point.

You obsession with logic grows tiresome. Continue on with your person agenda and desires but stop trying to pawn them off as revolutionary ideas that are going to benefit society.

You literally just try to string "fancy" words together that you think makes you sound smart or credible....neither appear to be true.

Logic tells me that when talking to a foolish person, i will get foolish responses and you have confirmed that for me. It was my mistake for expecting anything different.

 

[Crimzen]

Its ingrained in us that payment for service is absolutely necessary
its not, everything can be had for free with no one giving or accepting payment of any kind
how? by everyone simply continuing to do whatever job it is they are doing now, where workers are needed an agency can allocate the unemployed to where their skills are most useful, if unemployment rates rise too high then there should be some kind of mandatory work system put in place (but im not exactly going to draft up a governmental document on the spot)
remembering that education and training would be free as some people are educated to teach
basic services of electricity and water etc. would be covered as people are already working these jobs..
Food can easily be allocated to a household based upon amount of people living there, just bring your ID down to the shop and fill your basket with what you need
Other items like TVs computers mp3 players etc. can also be allocated in a similar manner, so that no one hoards hundreds of TVs in their basement for any odd reason
this way actual work and actual useful productive action is what drives a nation rather than greed for more

Housing causes a bit more trouble i think, because people are very picky about where they want to live (as they are entitiled to be) for example a bachelor living in a 3 bedroom house opposed to a family of 5 living in a similar sized home, if the bachelor inherited this house or had it built to accommodate the family he one day hopes to have, he shouldnt have it taken from him
However i think you could handle real estate just as it is now only with certain limits, if for example mr bachelor wants to live in a 16 room mansion he shouldnt be allowed as its simply a decadent waste, if he eventually has 16 children then he should be given the option

there are simple ways to get around the smaller problems

 

[Apeiron]

Regurgitate is certainly the right description for the word vomit you just spewed forth.

I am reaching for the words to accurately describe how inexplicably stupid you sound in this thread. I hope that your thoughts and opinions you've shared here are not completely indicative of your intelligence, because if they are...watch out, Darwinism will catch up to you fast.

Your arguments are completely unfounded on this topic and your lack of a pragmatic solution as itsscience pointed out makes this not even worth discussing at this point.

You obsession with logic grows tiresome. Continue on with your person agenda and desires but stop trying to pawn them off as revolutionary ideas that are going to benefit society.

You literally just try to string "fancy" words together that you think makes you sound smart or credible....neither appear to be true.

Logic tells me that when talking to a foolish person, i will get foolish responses and you have confirmed that for me. It was my mistake for expecting anything different.

Um.. Cool?

 

[Apeiron]

Its ingrained in us that payment for service is absolutely necessary
its not, everything can be had for free with no one giving or accepting payment of any kind
how? by everyone simply continuing to do whatever job it is they are doing now, where workers are needed an agency can allocate the unemployed to where their skills are most useful, if unemployment rates rise too high then there should be some kind of mandatory work system put in place (but im not exactly going to draft up a governmental document on the spot)
remembering that education and training would be free as some people are educated to teach
basic services of electricity and water etc. would be covered as people are already working these jobs..
Food can easily be allocated to a household based upon amount of people living there, just bring your ID down to the shop and fill your basket with what you need
Other items like TVs computers mp3 players etc. can also be allocated in a similar manner, so that no one hoards hundreds of TVs in their basement for any odd reason
this way actual work and actual useful productive action is what drives a nation rather than greed for more

Housing causes a bit more trouble i think, because people are very picky about where they want to live (as they are entitiled to be) for example a bachelor living in a 3 bedroom house opposed to a family of 5 living in a similar sized home, if the bachelor inherited this house or had it built to accommodate the family he one day hopes to have, he shouldnt have it taken from him
However i think you could handle real estate just as it is now only with certain limits, if for example mr bachelor wants to live in a 16 room mansion he shouldnt be allowed as its simply a decadent waste, if he eventually has 16 children then he should be given the option

there are simple ways to get around the smaller problems

Thank you. You are a phenom.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Crimzen, Why should a cardiac surgeon reap the same benefits as a grocery bagger? I agree that people should be judged on their character....but how can you justify not rewarding hard work and a more significant role?

 

[Apeiron]

Crimzen, Why should a cardiac surgeon reap the same benefits as a grocery bagger? I agree that people should be judged on their character....but how can you justify not rewarding hard work and a more significant role?

Im certain that six American babies were born with a higher capacity of comprhension than you in the time it took me to read your ego display, reassess and reaffirm your ignorance.

That remark also considering any born with cerebral palsy, down syndrome and autism, Astonishing when you note distinctions.... How you don't struggle to remember to breathe, much less wrap your mind around things we discuss here, ironically, sends me into a fit of convulsions.

 

[Apeiron]

To put it shortly everyone contributes to society in their own way hopefully because of an interest in the field and not simply a paycheck.
People in this world that do tasks for a simple paycheck and not enjoyment of practice are the reason most cesarian sections are performed on expecting mothers on a Friday as opposed to, say, any other day of the week...

A contribution is a contribution, and while doctors deserve the praise of society for fulfilling their graceful duties, every single duty in a society is equally important to keep it viable.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Well hot damn I missed you changing your name to crimson!

Every "job" in society is NOT as important as the next. Cardiac surgery > grocery bagger. The actual person is not necessarily a better person but the role is. You could bag your own groceries but likely could not replace your own heart valve.

What if that bagger had the mental capacity to be the best cardiac surgeon but he didn't like doing homework so he didn't go to college. He was "lazy" in a sense. But the cardiac surgeon spend years of labor intensive schooling. Those two people should reap the same rewards?

 

[Apeiron]

Um. Yea. About schools. Most schools are nothing but businesses themselves. They only give educations to those who either come out of pocket, teaching extra crap that you'll never need for the field you wish to enter to justify the bill. Or giving away scholarships to over privileged or exceptionally sharp minds (future EXEC$ and minions) to all in one be reciprocally validated and endorsed, effectively perpetuating the institutions use in it's present, greed driven form, because of man made requirements created by alumni in a chosen field to attend and graduate from such institutions to land a higher paying job.

 

[Apeiron]

And perhaps the bagger does have a greater mental capacity. Great enough to come to the realization that all the years of school compounded by the cost of schooling, doctors licenses and malpractice insurrance isn't worth all the trouble to just lose it all in a flagrant lawsuit. A lawsuit orchestrated by a scum-of-the-earth lawyer, who the likes of which we owe this great system of "freedoms" to. Get real. I'd say that bagger a is sharp lad/lass indeed.
Judging people by what they do is a big mistake. If everyone was a doctor who would clean the toilets?

Don't get me started on insurance though. AKA the biggest scam E-V-E-R

 

[Jerika_Rain]

If everyone doesn't want the hassle and cleans toilets, no one will be the doctor and fill a valuable role.

All the "important" roles are gone because you refuse to fairly reward them.

Indeed scholarships are given to sharp minds....it is those sharp minds that are often able to create and to revolutionize the world with their intelligence. I kind of suspect you didn't make it far in school.

PS financial aid exists for those who can't afford college.

 

[Apeiron]

If everyone doesn't want the hassle and cleans toilets, no one will be the doctor and fill a valuable role.

All the "important" roles are gone because you refuse to fairly reward them.

Indeed scholarships are given to sharp minds....it is those sharp minds that are often able to create and to revolutionize the world with their intelligence. I kind of suspect you didn't make it far in school.

PS financial aid exists for those who can't afford college.

Um really? They're reward would be the sense of fulfillment of duties they actually love performing and praise they receive from satisfied customers. Why do you insist on believing that every one has to have a institutions on their backs hitching a ride from us by dangling a dollar bill from a stick in front of us??? You must really have so little faith in your own humanity to believe that.. Pitty

Not to mention some people love to clean and some people like bloody things. I dont know what impression you have but individuality wouldn't disappear with the dollar signs like greed and immorality would.

Lol just read that bit about financial aid. Lol! Who do you think pays the financial aid!?
I'll give you hint, they're reading this right now...
Too slow again.
It's us!
We get stuck with the bill through taxation or donations that get skimmed off of by the organizations.
This applies to government grants as well.
Wow. You amaze me.
Any more questions?
Please say yes.......

 

[Apeiron]

I kind of suspect you didn't make it far in school.

I must admit that's the most astute observation you've made thus far in the week.
Keep that up and you might get a gold star sticker next to your name...
If you're implying anything other than the fact that I've only achieved completion of a high school eduction, yet and still, rocking the foundation of your obvious core values to the core, then you missed me with that comment. Sorry.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

You aren't rocking anything...while I thought it was impossible, i disagree with you more than when I started.

"Um really? They're reward would be the sense of fulfillment of duties they actually love performing and praise they receive from satisfied customers. Why do you insist on believing that every one has to have a institutions on their backs hitching a ride from us by dangling a dollar bill from a stick in front of us??? You must really have so little faith in your own humanity to believe that.. Pitty"

This is seriously retarded. The vast majority of people don't work because they love it. They work because they have to. In your scenario they still have to work so people will just do what they have to for the most part. Most people in this world do the babe minimum. They work not to get fired...not to do the best job.

I believe that people need to focus ON THEMSELVES. It's about self improvement...not one guy (like you for instance) thinking they have the solution for everyone.

 

[Apeiron]

You aren't rocking anything...while I thought it was impossible, i disagree with you more than when I started.

"Um really? They're reward would be the sense of fulfillment of duties they actually love performing and praise they receive from satisfied customers. Why do you insist on believing that every one has to have a institutions on their backs hitching a ride from us by dangling a dollar bill from a stick in front of us??? You must really have so little faith in your own humanity to believe that.. Pitty"

This is seriously retarded. The vast majority of people don't work because they love it. They work because they have to. In your scenario they still have to work so people will just do what they have to for the most part. Most people in this world do the babe minimum. They work not to get fired...not to do the best job.

I believe that people need to focus ON THEMSELVES. It's about self improvement...not one guy (like you for instance) thinking they have the solution for everyone.

You just proved my point. "they work because they have to" they work to live instead of living to work...
I don't know about you but I don't want a doctor who became one just to peddle poison and collect a check. I would opt for a doctor that does it because he loves his job.

 

[Apeiron]

Let's think about this. When your good at whatever job you do and you like your coworkers and your coworkers like you. Some people would like their job still if they were shoveling horse shit all day.

Another thing. A doctors job isn't any more relatively difficult for them any more than it's difficult for a less intelligent individual to deliver a pizza. We do jobs were efficient at because we've been trained for it. It would be just as difficult for you to do what I do for a living as it would be for me to do what you do. People are going to do what they want to do and prosper in this society or change job titles or careers as often and easily as what's available.