GOD
Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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- 14 Jan 2006
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Dearly beloved , pilgrims ,
MAOIs do not potentiate Psilocybin mushrooms , or have any psychoactive / entheogen efects , other than psychological and / or toxicological ones , in the doses reportedly used by some people trying to potentiate Psilocybin mushrooms .
Mono Amine Oxydase is an enzyme found in our stomachs . Its function is to neutralise/destroy toxic diatry amines . Part of its action is to destroy substances that have a similar chemical structure to the neuro transmiter serotonine , wich is similar to that of psilocybin . Peganum Harmala , Banisteropsis Caapi and harmalin are not "halucinogenic" or psychoactive , at least in the doses reported to be taken to potentiate psilocybin .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toxicity of Peganum harmala: Review and a Case Report
Massoud Mahmoudian, Hossein Jalilpour, Pirooz Salehian
Iranian Journal Of Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 2002; 1:1-4
Case Report
A 35 years old male patient, who was under treatment for his addiction to opium, admitted to the clinic due to gastrointestinal distress. He explained that he had consumed 1 kg of sheep testicles in the belief that it would improve his well being, but resulted in emesis and vomiting. Then to his grandmother’s recommendation and according to the family tradition, he took around 150 g of seeds P. harmala. Due to her old age, the grandmother was not sure about the traditional dose. After that he experience gastrointestinal distress and vomited blood. On physical examination, he showed slight elevation in body temperature (37.5 °C), a pulse rate of 100 beats per minute and a low blood pressure (80/40 mmHg), convulsion, tremor (limbs and facial muscles) and visual hallucination as well as abdominal pain. Endoscopy showed a 2.5 cm gastric ulcer at the location of anteral region in oozing state. Laboratory tests showed a mild anemia (Hb of 12.9 g/dl) due to his internal bleeding. Other biochemical parameters have found to be normal.He was treated with infusion of 3 liters of NaCl/glucose solution and antacid (every three to four hours). After few hours, signs and symptoms of toxicity relieved and he left hospital in a stable condition. However, his treatment was continued for the peptic ulcer with omeprazol (20 mg daily) and ranitidine (150 mg bid).
EMESIS = the forceful expulsion of the contents of one's stomach through the mouth ,Other types of emesis or variations of the theme:
* Projectile vomiting: a sudden and particularly forceful vomiting action.
* Retching: a series of weaker and unproductive vomiting movements.
* Nausea: the sensation associated with anticipation of retching or vomiting.
This was the biggest recorded dose of P.Harmala i could find . Other reports of people taking amounts between 20 and 50 grams were not rare . The reported effects varied from person to person , experement for experement . There seems to be no conection between dose and experience . The reputable scientists , who have tried it in those doses , J.Ott and A.Shulgin , report about the same effects , the same effects a neutral person reports after taking - PLACEBO .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can not find an LD50 for humans only for animals
Table 1 . The toxic doses of various alkaloids of P. harmala.
Alkaloid Response Animal Dose (mg/kg)
Harmaline LD-sc rats 120
Harman LD-sc rabbits 200
Harmine LD50-iv mice 38
Harmine MLD-sc rats 200.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://msds.ourlib.org/Msds_Detail.asp? ... mine,%2098%&
cas=442-51-3&Synonym=7-Methoxy-1-methyl-9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole;%209H-
Pyrido(3,4-b)indole,%20%20%20%20%207-methoxy-1-methyl-;%20
Banisterine;%20Leucoharmine;%206-Methoxyharman;%20%20%20%20%201
-Methyl-7-methoxy-beta-carboline;%20Telepathine;%20Yageine;%20Yajeine&
page=606
Repeated or prolonged exposure to pure Harmine may cause CNS stimulation. Human systemic effects by intamuscular route include sleep disturbances,tremors, nausea or vomiting.
TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION ****
RTECS#:
CAS# 442-51-3: UV0175000
LD50/LC50: NOT AVAILABLE
Intramuscular, Human - man: TDLo = 3 mg/kg ( Sleep disturbances,tremors, nausea or
Carcinogenicity:
Harmine -
Not listed by ACGIH, IARC, or NTP.
Other:
See actual entry in RTECS for complete information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/communion/v ... .php?t=171
The 4-sub position is actually quite important, even if it's not unique. Ever wonder why you can take psilocybin orally and it's active without an MAOI unlike, say DMT, or 5MEO? It's because the NNdimethyl "tail" can swing around and form a complex with the "O" at the 4 position, making it impervious to MAO in the gut. That's from a Dennis McKenna talk by the way. So if you don't chuck the whole idea, you might say something like the 4-subbed position makes it active orally all by itself, allowing mind expansion with simple ingestion, unlike its parent structure, DMT which has to be combined with an MAOI to be effective through the gut. When you think about how humans evolved via the hunter gatherer route,a DMT analogue that works via simple ingestion becomes very important.
on 1/18/05 11:52 AM, Dennis McKenna wrote:
Jan,
Regarding Icono's comments above, he has it exactly right. It’s true that apparently Psilocin is orally active is because, in the charged, physiological state you get a weak hydrogen bonding between the indole HO- (which is deproteinated) and the side-chain nitrogen (which is protonated). So you do get that steric hindrance happening that protects it from MAO. This is not from me, by the way, this is straight from the guru of chemistry himself, Dave Nichols!
And, icono is further correct in that a single-ingredient psychedelic, active with little or no processing (and what needs less processing than a cluster of fresh, succulent Psilocybes?) suggests itself as a more likely catalyst of hominid consciousness; especially as they would tend to migrate with the populations as they dragged their cattle along with them. It’s probable that some tropical mushroom, probably Ps. Cubensis, could have been widespread in hotter, wetter paleolithic times.
I also think it’s possible that people could have accidentally stumbled on the DMT/MAO combinations pretty early. After all, tryptamines are pretty widespread in plants, and so are B-carbolines. So I think it’s entirely possible that you could have foraging hominids, calmly munching on DMT containing plants, and suspecting nothing because it’s not orally active. But one day somebody decides to add something new to the salad, maybe that little sprig of Peganum harmala that she found on the path, and viola! The lights come on, at least for a little while. Now whether they are pharmacologists enough to figure out that it was the combination of the two plants is another matter; but eventually they did, obviously, because we now have ayahuasca and numerous analogs.
So I think probably both scenarios may be correct. The pastoral, mushroom eating semi-nomads on the plains, while the forest dwelling populations may have been more likely to encounter (or invent) ayahuasca-like combinations.
Best
Dennis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J.Ott says the same thing in "Pharmacotheeon" And so does A.Shulgin in "Tihkal" .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathon Ott , Alexander Shulgin , Dennis Mckenna and Dave Nicols are not wrong = The only things that happen are psychelogical ( PLACEBO ) and / or POISONING .
LOVE GOD
MAOIs do not potentiate Psilocybin mushrooms , or have any psychoactive / entheogen efects , other than psychological and / or toxicological ones , in the doses reportedly used by some people trying to potentiate Psilocybin mushrooms .
Mono Amine Oxydase is an enzyme found in our stomachs . Its function is to neutralise/destroy toxic diatry amines . Part of its action is to destroy substances that have a similar chemical structure to the neuro transmiter serotonine , wich is similar to that of psilocybin . Peganum Harmala , Banisteropsis Caapi and harmalin are not "halucinogenic" or psychoactive , at least in the doses reported to be taken to potentiate psilocybin .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toxicity of Peganum harmala: Review and a Case Report
Massoud Mahmoudian, Hossein Jalilpour, Pirooz Salehian
Iranian Journal Of Pharmacology & Therapeutics, 2002; 1:1-4
Case Report
A 35 years old male patient, who was under treatment for his addiction to opium, admitted to the clinic due to gastrointestinal distress. He explained that he had consumed 1 kg of sheep testicles in the belief that it would improve his well being, but resulted in emesis and vomiting. Then to his grandmother’s recommendation and according to the family tradition, he took around 150 g of seeds P. harmala. Due to her old age, the grandmother was not sure about the traditional dose. After that he experience gastrointestinal distress and vomited blood. On physical examination, he showed slight elevation in body temperature (37.5 °C), a pulse rate of 100 beats per minute and a low blood pressure (80/40 mmHg), convulsion, tremor (limbs and facial muscles) and visual hallucination as well as abdominal pain. Endoscopy showed a 2.5 cm gastric ulcer at the location of anteral region in oozing state. Laboratory tests showed a mild anemia (Hb of 12.9 g/dl) due to his internal bleeding. Other biochemical parameters have found to be normal.He was treated with infusion of 3 liters of NaCl/glucose solution and antacid (every three to four hours). After few hours, signs and symptoms of toxicity relieved and he left hospital in a stable condition. However, his treatment was continued for the peptic ulcer with omeprazol (20 mg daily) and ranitidine (150 mg bid).
EMESIS = the forceful expulsion of the contents of one's stomach through the mouth ,Other types of emesis or variations of the theme:
* Projectile vomiting: a sudden and particularly forceful vomiting action.
* Retching: a series of weaker and unproductive vomiting movements.
* Nausea: the sensation associated with anticipation of retching or vomiting.
This was the biggest recorded dose of P.Harmala i could find . Other reports of people taking amounts between 20 and 50 grams were not rare . The reported effects varied from person to person , experement for experement . There seems to be no conection between dose and experience . The reputable scientists , who have tried it in those doses , J.Ott and A.Shulgin , report about the same effects , the same effects a neutral person reports after taking - PLACEBO .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can not find an LD50 for humans only for animals
Table 1 . The toxic doses of various alkaloids of P. harmala.
Alkaloid Response Animal Dose (mg/kg)
Harmaline LD-sc rats 120
Harman LD-sc rabbits 200
Harmine LD50-iv mice 38
Harmine MLD-sc rats 200.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://msds.ourlib.org/Msds_Detail.asp? ... mine,%2098%&
cas=442-51-3&Synonym=7-Methoxy-1-methyl-9H-pyrido[3,4-b]indole;%209H-
Pyrido(3,4-b)indole,%20%20%20%20%207-methoxy-1-methyl-;%20
Banisterine;%20Leucoharmine;%206-Methoxyharman;%20%20%20%20%201
-Methyl-7-methoxy-beta-carboline;%20Telepathine;%20Yageine;%20Yajeine&
page=606
Repeated or prolonged exposure to pure Harmine may cause CNS stimulation. Human systemic effects by intamuscular route include sleep disturbances,tremors, nausea or vomiting.
TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION ****
RTECS#:
CAS# 442-51-3: UV0175000
LD50/LC50: NOT AVAILABLE
Intramuscular, Human - man: TDLo = 3 mg/kg ( Sleep disturbances,tremors, nausea or
Carcinogenicity:
Harmine -
Not listed by ACGIH, IARC, or NTP.
Other:
See actual entry in RTECS for complete information.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.gnosticmedia.com/communion/v ... .php?t=171
The 4-sub position is actually quite important, even if it's not unique. Ever wonder why you can take psilocybin orally and it's active without an MAOI unlike, say DMT, or 5MEO? It's because the NNdimethyl "tail" can swing around and form a complex with the "O" at the 4 position, making it impervious to MAO in the gut. That's from a Dennis McKenna talk by the way. So if you don't chuck the whole idea, you might say something like the 4-subbed position makes it active orally all by itself, allowing mind expansion with simple ingestion, unlike its parent structure, DMT which has to be combined with an MAOI to be effective through the gut. When you think about how humans evolved via the hunter gatherer route,a DMT analogue that works via simple ingestion becomes very important.
on 1/18/05 11:52 AM, Dennis McKenna wrote:
Jan,
Regarding Icono's comments above, he has it exactly right. It’s true that apparently Psilocin is orally active is because, in the charged, physiological state you get a weak hydrogen bonding between the indole HO- (which is deproteinated) and the side-chain nitrogen (which is protonated). So you do get that steric hindrance happening that protects it from MAO. This is not from me, by the way, this is straight from the guru of chemistry himself, Dave Nichols!
And, icono is further correct in that a single-ingredient psychedelic, active with little or no processing (and what needs less processing than a cluster of fresh, succulent Psilocybes?) suggests itself as a more likely catalyst of hominid consciousness; especially as they would tend to migrate with the populations as they dragged their cattle along with them. It’s probable that some tropical mushroom, probably Ps. Cubensis, could have been widespread in hotter, wetter paleolithic times.
I also think it’s possible that people could have accidentally stumbled on the DMT/MAO combinations pretty early. After all, tryptamines are pretty widespread in plants, and so are B-carbolines. So I think it’s entirely possible that you could have foraging hominids, calmly munching on DMT containing plants, and suspecting nothing because it’s not orally active. But one day somebody decides to add something new to the salad, maybe that little sprig of Peganum harmala that she found on the path, and viola! The lights come on, at least for a little while. Now whether they are pharmacologists enough to figure out that it was the combination of the two plants is another matter; but eventually they did, obviously, because we now have ayahuasca and numerous analogs.
So I think probably both scenarios may be correct. The pastoral, mushroom eating semi-nomads on the plains, while the forest dwelling populations may have been more likely to encounter (or invent) ayahuasca-like combinations.
Best
Dennis
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J.Ott says the same thing in "Pharmacotheeon" And so does A.Shulgin in "Tihkal" .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jonathon Ott , Alexander Shulgin , Dennis Mckenna and Dave Nicols are not wrong = The only things that happen are psychelogical ( PLACEBO ) and / or POISONING .
LOVE GOD
