How to extract DMT (The Easy & low-cost way)

[IJesusChrist]

emulsions are beat with more NaOH added... you should have added this to the DMT section though, but thanks anyways.

 

[ararat]

moved it.


thanks for the instructions, sounds like a technique worth trying.

 

[vibrancy3]

Silly swim, thought it would belong in ''extraction and research'' section.

And yeah swim did forget to mention add more caustic soda (NaOH) if do emulsions occur!

BananahPancake is right, it's worth a try as it simple, low cost and really gr8 tek 4 1st timers..............

 

[sidefx]

was wondering if this extraction would work with p.viridis leaves

 

[madprossor]

Yo, I think 10g of NaOH is more appropriate than 5g per 20g MHRB.

Also I think you want some kind of step to reduce the amount of lye in your nonpolar to give a less irritating smoke. Either wash the nonpolar with bicarb, or dry it with MgSO4, or perhaps wash your freebase with cold 10% ammonia. Or recrystallize.

This tek is very similar to mine- except I use less water, more base, more salt, and tap or well-water is fine. Also I don't get up from the couch unless I'm going to make a QP'er. What's wrong with making a year's supply of dmt in 8 hours labor?

STB extraction is probably less suitable than a traditional A/B for P. Viridis leaves because they have lots of chlorophyll which is usually removed by a defatting step. If you have to purchase P. Viridis this is not the best candidate for chemical extraction. The higher cost per dose of P. Viridis is usually paid because it is more suitable for direct brewing into ayahuasca than Jurema (which causes so much nausea that it's hard to hold down long enough to absorb.)

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yo, I think 10g of NaOH is more appropriate than 5g per 20g MHRB.

Also I think you want some kind of step to reduce the amount of lye in your nonpolar to give a less irritating smoke. Either wash the nonpolar with bicarb, or dry it with MgSO4, or perhaps wash your freebase with cold 10% ammonia. Or recrystallize.

This tek is very similar to mine- except I use less water, more base, more salt, and tap or well-water is fine. Also I don't get up from the couch unless I'm going to make a QP'er. What's wrong with making a year's supply of dmt in 8 hours labor?

STB extraction is probably less suitable than a traditional A/B for P. Viridis leaves because they have lots of chlorophyll which is usually removed by a defatting step. If you have to purchase P. Viridis this is not the best candidate for chemical extraction. The higher cost per dose of P. Viridis is usually paid because it is more suitable for direct brewing into ayahuasca than Jurema (which causes so much nausea that it's hard to hold down long enough to absorb.)

for less irratating smoke couldn't you just wash your crystals with water to get rid of naoh?

 

[endlessness]

dont wash crystals, its a very inneficient way of cleaning and might result in loss of yield.

better wash the non-polar solvent where the dmt is dissolved in. Just make a sodium carb solution, mix with solvent and separate, and then evap or freeze the solvent with dmt

btw, lye doesnt vaporize at temperatures reached by your lighter. If its harsh, its not NaOH, but maybe some other impurities like remains of the mimosa mix or other more polar impurities that came across during separation of solvent from mimosa soup

 

[IJesusChrist]

if you washed with ice cold water you couldn't lose a damn thing, but you're right harsh smoke wouldn't be from naoh, probably just some fats or something..

dmt smoke IS harsh though

 

[madprossor]

Man, i have been over this again&again&again...

Why wash your nonpolar with Sodium Carbonate solution, except that this is highly effective in removing residual lye?

Have you noticed a difference in the harshness of the dmt produced with and without this wash? Have you licked your lips after smoking dmt which was not washed in this way? Have you measured the pH of the shit coating your lips after smoking unwashed dmt?

I've made pounds and pounds of dmt. Brown, orange, yellow, and creamy white. (No red...)

I have noticed that when the nonpolar is dried with MgSO4 or when the freebase is freezer-precipitated from naptha- in both of these cases the smoke is very much less harsh than it would be otherwise.

I have prepared yellow dmt powder with residual lye in it (from evaporation of naptha) which was much more harsh to smoke than orange sticky dmt which has had the lye removed. I shared this evaporated-yellow-dmt once with an experienced traveler and he complained that the amount of residual lye was excessive. Since then MgSO4 has been used and further complaints have not occurred. I have a very hard time believing that this significant improvement in quality is due to the MgSO4 removing some component other than base... what possible component could it be?

Marsofold spoke of this lye contamination issue and he had his own way to solve it. He was a skilled researcher.

Freebase dmt is indeed soluble in water at pH 7. I don't know the exact solubility, but it will dissolve to some extent. This is determined by its pKa i believe.

Look, the melting point and boiling point of NaOH are irrelevant. The scientific term for a solid suspended below it's melting point by a vaporizing liquid is called a "MIST."

A "mist" is a real thing observed by scientists in labs. It is not imaginary.

And white dmt smoked out of a nice long pipe with lots of twists and turns is in fact not very harsh at all...

Enough about this. I've put it to a taste test many, many times and I'd rather not have my throat coated with lye when I go way far out on a fat dmt rip. If your dmt smokes harshly, perhaps it's because you haven't been paying attention to the real masters...

In fact water is soluble in naptha at least 0.1%. Let's do some rough math. It takes me about 3 liters of naptha to pull a half ounce of dmt. 3000 grams naptha * .1% water = 3 grams of water. i use 25% base, so if I evaporate I will get .75 grams of LYE mixed in my half ounce of dmt. this is NO JOKE!

I'm curious- who told you there is no such thing as a solid carried by a vaporizing liquid? Was this person a professor, or a professional chemist? I sincerely doubt it.

 

[endlessness]

Man, i have been over this again&again&again...

Why wash your nonpolar with Sodium Carbonate solution, except that this is highly effective in removing residual lye?

Have you noticed a difference in the harshness of the dmt produced with and without this wash? Have you licked your lips after smoking dmt which was not washed in this way? Have you measured the pH of the shit coating your lips after smoking unwashed dmt?

I've made pounds and pounds of dmt. Brown, orange, yellow, and creamy white. (No red...)

I have noticed that when the nonpolar is dried with MgSO4 or when the freebase is freezer-precipitated from naptha- in both of these cases the smoke is very much less harsh than it would be otherwise.

I have prepared yellow dmt powder with residual lye in it (from evaporation of naptha) which was much more harsh to smoke than orange sticky dmt which has had the lye removed. I shared this evaporated-yellow-dmt once with an experienced traveler and he complained that the amount of residual lye was excessive. Since then MgSO4 has been used and further complaints have not occurred. I have a very hard time believing that this significant improvement in quality is due to the MgSO4 removing some component other than base... what possible component could it be?

Marsofold spoke of this lye contamination issue and he had his own way to solve it. He was a skilled researcher.

Freebase dmt is indeed soluble in water at pH 7. I don't know the exact solubility, but it will dissolve to some extent. This is determined by its pKa i believe.

Look, the melting point and boiling point of NaOH are irrelevant. The scientific term for a solid suspended below it's melting point by a vaporizing liquid is called a "MIST."

A "mist" is a real thing observed by scientists in labs. It is not imaginary.

And white dmt smoked out of a nice long pipe with lots of twists and turns is in fact not very harsh at all...

Enough about this. I've put it to a taste test many, many times and I'd rather not have my throat coated with lye when I go way far out on a fat dmt rip. If your dmt smokes harshly, perhaps it's because you haven't been paying attention to the real masters...

In fact water is soluble in naptha at least 0.1%. Let's do some rough math. It takes me about 3 liters of naptha to pull a half ounce of dmt. 3000 grams naptha * .1% water = 3 grams of water. i use 25% base, so if I evaporate I will get .75 grams of LYE mixed in my half ounce of dmt. this is NO JOKE!

I'm curious- who told you there is no such thing as a solid carried by a vaporizing liquid? Was this person a professor, or a professional chemist? I sincerely doubt it.

you are right that lye can come as unvaporized particle, I should have been clearer about that. Smoking out of a water bong would help with that, but otherwise the sodium carbonate wash is very effective at removing lye as mentioned. I dont understand your first question about why wash the non polar appart from removing lye..? That is exactly the point, removing lye and any other polar impurity that might have come across from bad separation.

Ijesus was asking about washing crystals to remove lye or other harshness, I was merely suggesting that if he is gonna wash, then better wash it dissolved in non polar as washing crystals will be a very innefective way (the 'dreaded' ammonia wash that many people had problems with). Do you disagree? do you think its better to wash the crystals or not wash at all? because from the rest of your post you seem to imply that it is better to remove residual lye

That being said, I dont extract with naphtha anymore, I use limonene and I salt out the dmt and later freebase it, so I have no issues with residual lye

 

[IJesusChrist]

Sure, water is maybe .1%, NaOH is even MORE polar than water dude...

A long pipe is less harsh because your DMT is fucking coating the sides of it. Have you ever looked inside the pipes after a good couple tokes? The crystals form, and then MELT because it's DMT.

I will do an experiment next time I do this - I will use a pH paper or a coloring pH agent to measure pH of the NAPTHA.

I still don't believe you're inhaling naoh.

btw how do you go about drying with mgso4, I've never done it and am curious about how that is exactly done.

 

[madprossor]

sorry to be so flustered. but i had good batches come out significantly less suitable for sacramental use due to lye contamination when i was first experimenting and evaporating dmt from naptha. the lye burned my lips on several occasions...

i never worked with the infamous 10% Ammonia wash. it never made sense to me, because i felt that the lye was trapped inside the dmt crystals, so it could not easily be washed away.

because i already had a mdma/mda experience, i was familiar with MgSO4 as a drying agent and so that was the first thing i tried. it works well.

i never did the sodium carbonate or bicarb washes much. but i agree they are definitely the procedure if MgSO4 is not used. the most effective method for lye removal would probably be a bicarb wash, followed by MgSO4 drying, freezer precip the product, and one recrystallization.

this talk of limonene has me intrigued though. endlessness, do you achieve a cleaner freebase by the limonene method than by traditional STB, and a comparable yield also?

MgSO4 is available from the pharmacy as epsom salts. it is baked in an oven (at 400 Fahrenheit or so) for several hours, and then broken into chunks (or powder) and stored in an air-tight jar until it is used. one big heaping tablespoon full is added to one quart of nonpolar solvent and the jar sealed for 1 hour. the drying agent is then filtered out removing water and lye with it. a scientific filter paper and a vacuum filtration setup would be the nicest way to filter out 100% of the drying agent. but a simple plastic funnel plugged with a cotton ball works pretty well to get 99% of it. never tried a coffee filter, perhaps it beats a cotton ball...

a traditional freebase dmt pipe is long and has bends in it... in part this is to lower the temperature of the vapor before it reaches your mouth. sure a bit condenses on the side of the pipe, but really, the dude with QP'ers of dmt does not mind... my strongest dmt experience ever was smoking translucent white dmt, in a totally clean pipe, which had 3 bends and at least 15 inches of length. the hit was intended for two people, but my partner didn't smoke much and i was left to "cash" the bowl. it went down totally smooth, yet it was a MASSIVE hit, drawn long, steady, and slow... it first hit me as a body vibration- no sense of having inhaled burning smoke at all. i decided to hold in the rest of the hit, despite the intensity of the quickly rising vibration. what i saw was unreal, yet more real than anything i've ever seen before or since. i don't know the vine nearly as well as i know crystal dmt, but i know it's important also... it would be so nice to be able to drink at first under the guidance of a proper shaman, someone with the wisdom of thousands of years of unbroken training to guide you through the rough spots. considering all the types of aliens and spirits you could get tangled up with, kind guidance is not an excessive luxury... ah well, i just say my prayers and don't worry too much about where the hit will take me...

 

[IJesusChrist]

Ok for some reason I was thinking the drying agent would be placed NEAR a container (open) of the solvent and just absorb water vapor at an extremely low rate. Makes much more sense that you put it IN the substance.

 

[endlessness]

this talk of limonene has me intrigued though. endlessness, do you achieve a cleaner freebase by the limonene method than by traditional STB, and a comparable yield also?

Not exactly.. If you are looking for white/transluscent crystals, seems a very selective non-polar like naphtha/hexane/heptane is the only way. Limonene being more polar will also pull some plant oils, dmt n-oxide and possibly this secondary beta-carboline alkaloid. If you salt out from limonene using FASI (fumaric acid saturated IPA), and then freebase the precipitated akaloids with sodium carbonate and pull with IPA or Acetone, you get a product that is like yellow wax. It smells absolutely delicious (much less sharp than naphtha crystals, more earthy/flowery/sweet, smell that reminds me a bit of brown sugar). It seems to be even stronger than pure dmt by a slight margin, either because of plant oils working as a heat-shield and allowing for a more efficient vaporization, and/or because of the actions of this secondary alkaloid. The fumarate precipitated from FASI works perfectly for oral administration if thats desired, without the need to freebase them.

If the limonene is salted with vinegar, then it doesnt crystalize. DMT acetate being hygroscopic so being as a goo, but also the freebased acetates didnt cristalize, at least I couldnt get it to the two times I tried, it stayed as a beautiful ruby/golden goo. So I infused some caapi leaf for a wonderful changa instead.

So if you want pure white crystals, aliphatic hydrocarbons like naphtha are the way. If you want a product that maybe doesnt look as nice, but is extracted with more natural chemicals that feels really nice to ingest/smoke and is just as strong or even bit stronger (or if you just want to experiment with different extraction methods), go for the limonene way

btw, I strongly recommend using a vaporgenie for vaporizing dmt. I used to need 50mg using the herb-sandwhich in a bong method (or The Machine too). With the vaporgenie, not only it is incredibly smoother vapour to inhale than both these other methods, but also now I only need maybe 30mg to breakthrough

 

[IJesusChrist]

it may be that limonene is pulling 'jungle spice' out by slight margin,...

I know dcm will do this.

 

[magickpencil]

Personally, I'd like to see less of this kind of post on the board
The DMT-Nexus » DMT Extraction forum has more than enough of this kind of data in every variation under the sun
Admins., maybe we could put together a reference page for off-site resources pertaining to this sort of specific data
There are many other entheogen-related message boards out there, often w a more narrow focus than this site

 

[IJesusChrist]

yeah, i get lazy and never want to login to dmt-nexus though

BUt yeah, dmt nexus is a funnel of knowledge

 

[madprossor]

indeed, there are also a good amount of people extracting dmt on mycotopia and the shoomery. it's nice to have so many practicing researchers sharing in discussions there. you could probably even find competent free counseling there if your exterrestrial dmt experience results in anal probing and psychic scars

but, we have a DMT area here on psychonaut too... so it seems appropriate once in a while to discuss dmt extractions here especially if members here have personal experience draw from, right? we could never replace the full spectrum of discussion found in these larger communities, but maybe we could achieve a high signal to noise ratio here- condensing years of talk from elsewhere into days worth here.

on that note thank you Endlessness for the info on fasa... so you get a waxy lump that smokes smoothly. does it stick to a plastic bag? do you have the melting point for it? the advantage of the powdery stuff is it doesn't melt in a hot car too easily (70C i think is the MP), and it doesn't stick to plastic. so it's easy to handle and pour.

i have also found "impure" dmt extracts to be more active than pure white dmt, and active in slightly different ways. but the most detailed visual experience i ever had was with white dmt, for whatever reason... so don't write off the pure stuff. about half of people seem to request the lightest shades, and half ask for orange... i think the orange has more of an energy-type body buzz and lasts slightly longer. but wtf do i know, individual trips may vary. and if you ever precip tiny spherical brown balls, i'm still trying to figure out what they are full of... whatever it is they're wicked mixed with some fluffy dmt.

i worked out a technique for white dmt by repeated recrystallization of the STB extracted yellow stuff using naptha. (the traditional A/B gave a cleaner initial extract, but took about 7x as many days to produce half the yield as my STB.) four iterations would take a bright yellow color crystal to a cream-white color. more pure material would coat the sides of the recrystallization jar, and less pure material the bottom (in layers). 2 ounces of yellow dmt is recrystallized 4-5 times in 4-5 separate vessels (each holding of a separate grade of material you have sorted from the last iteration) to yield one ounce of white dmt and one ounce of yellow, orange, and brown dmt. (there are negligible losses if all naptha is recycled by distillation eventually.) vessels of a tall narrow shape are used, the concentration of dmt in naptha is 14g in 400ml, the vessel and dmt are heated from the bottom until the dmt melts, addition of hot naptha quickly dissolves the melted dmt, the bottom of the vessel is insulated and it is quickly placed in the freezer with the sides directly exposed to the cold. (i think of this a little bit like a "wet sublimation" which causes extra crystals to adhere to the sides.) my workup is always the same- pour off the naptha, then dry the crystals in the jar/vessel with a fan thoroughly before scraping them out.

i was hoping that fasa could provide a quicker purification technique. but from your experience it may not improve my STB product much. (will try it anyway sometime.) maybe vacuum fractionation is the answer? i had a bad result once trying with a vacuum leak, no column, and a small amount of some kind of dirty xylene extracted dmt. but i know vacuum fractionation is used to purify synthetic dmt made by the oxalyl chloride route with good results. i still don't know if it could help clean up our MHRB extracted stuff. it should, but in the real world things don't always work how they should. has anyone seen any reports positive or negative?

can anyone confirm that it is "impossible" to create jungle spice by STB? this seems to be my experience. it would suggest that maybe dmt could be "intensified" by heating it in acid solution... maybe the acid converts some of it to a beta-carboline... i extracted pink dmt once long ago, from a certain batch from Sao Paolo extracted by A/B. it was good stuff. but i've never seen red dmt yet...

one thing i noticed is that if powdered rootbark is stored in excessively hot conditions for awhile, it will give less yellow crystals and more orange "chunks" (containing lots of the n-oxide i think) on extraction. both smoked nicely, but i was glad to have the extra orange chunks people liked those especially. so, that's my best guess for what will happen in long-term storage... the MHRB will retain potency for a good while, but give more n-oxide and less yellow dmt crystal over time.

 

[vibrancy3]

P.Viridis leaves can be used!

If the plant you wish to use has a substantial amount of NN-DMT within it. it can be used for extraction process!

(Mimosa Hostills is about 0.56% DMT Swims thinks ? You can find the % of NN-dmt on the erowid chart below)

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/ext ... ide1.shtml

And there are a array of solvents/chemicals you can use like heptane, ammonia ect to wash your final product of impurities/alkaloids. I would do this if you are worried about how clean your overall product will be!

Swim just left it through as he is a preety heavy smoker and does not notice the ''harshness'' of your final product

This tek is relitively easy and is great for 1st timers!

(just be careful not to shake your product to hard whise emulsions will occur and they are a bitch to overcome!)

After 2-3 pulls you should be a pro 8)

 

[vibrancy3]

DMT-Nexus has actually been fraustrating 4 swim!

When swim had emulsions & asked someone 4 help @ dmt nexus for help, they told swim to put ''salt'' in my solution which completely messed part of my solution. like swim said they double check what you doing if you get advise from that site!

Plus Psychonaut.com rocks!

But thats is just swims opinion...........