equations

[waygie]

i think the main point is that we think just because we see something a way, that that is the way it actually is

not really insightfull though



reminds me of that quote by einstein "the strangest thing about the universe is our ability to percieve it" (or something like that) which brings up the question of why we have consciousness and whatnot
what those people dont realize is consciosness isnt just an "is or isnt" type of thing
there are varying degrees of consciousness

just because we have some consciousness they take it to be consciousness period instead of like 12% consciousness (assuming there is an exact correlation between brain control and consciousness...could be wrong but you get the idea)
thats the closest they see to a book so they take it as a book instead of a shadow of a book

 

[EndlessEntity]

wow Ijc listen you got part of it but you dont understand

The allegory is talking about the human minds ability to create something with "form" in the mind, to think introspectively to construct a "thought" which you could say is the very definition of "insightful".

 

[EndlessEntity]

One claims Einstein doesnt realize something or that Plato's allegory isnt insgihtfull. funny how people on the internet always act all big and mighty wish people would humble themselves a little more

 

[IJesusChrist]

Plato came before neurology and he came before darwin... I don't expect him to always be on top of everything...

I came up with the ideological perspectives of general theory of relativity in my junior year of highschool. Had I known advanced calculus I would have come up with the mathematics.

Western culture is very good at raising people on pedestals, where as it should really be the entire movement of knowledge - the era. Einstein was good, but I always question why he was the most famous out of everyone...

I think Newton and galileo were some of the only people to be completely on their own in their thinking, in which they brought revolution. All other famous scientists were in the midst and peak of a revolution - they were not the revolution themselves.

That is just my opinion though.

 

[waygie]

One claims Einstein doesnt realize something or that Plato's allegory isnt insgihtfull. funny how people on the internet always act all big and mighty wish people would humble themselves a little more

einstein wasn't known for his theories on consciousness
instead of judging me disagreeing with what he says why don't you judge what i said?

 

[EndlessEntity]

i dont have a problem with anyone disagreeing with people. but when they take a genius at face value and develop an opinion from half of their meaning then their opinion is doomed to be flawed.

IJC said "He's making the claim the slaves are stupid because they have the ability to tie a shadow to an object."

that is absolutely NOT what the allegory is claiming. if thats what you think then you got it wrong.

you also said "The ability to see that you are indeed tieing two seperate ideas together is not important in his allegory"

why dont you READ THE WHOLE ALLEGORY if you dont understand it. you never will. do not discredit me for finding something insightful that is RELATED to what you are talking about plz.

you also said "If you sat on your ass all day and asked if what you perceived was real, and not a silhoutte of something more fundamental then you'd be doing just that - sitting on your ass all day. What the fuck does that accomplish."

not sure where you got this "sit on ur ass" theory seeing as how this also has nothing to do with what plato was trying to get us to understand. but its pretty retarted and irrelevant.'

you also said "I think Newton and galileo were some of the only people to be completely on their own in their thinking, in which they brought revolution. All other famous scientists were in the midst and peak of a revolution - they were not the revolution themselves."

this claim is ignorant. not backed up by ANY historical data. do you read history? i LOVE history its a major passion of mine. but you have to look at all history under an objective light. and saying that Newton and Galileo where the only "scientists" to "think on their own" is silly.

Waygie says "einstein wasn't known for his theories on consciousness
instead of judging me disagreeing with what he says why don't you judge what i said?"

if you read all my posts im judging you on exactly that what you said. and i beleive besides relativity, the atom bomb and a couple other Major theories ALOT of Einsteins work concerned consciousness. READ MORE

 

[EndlessEntity]

the whole reason i started posting in this thread was to settle it with an allegory that I happen to find Very insightful.
you two keep arguing, even re-reading the thread your each trying to convince each other that YOUR right
that YOUR opinion is right and that they are wrong. when the whole answer to this question was answered by both of you at one point or another.

my recommendation

PINK FLOYD - US AND THEM

 

[waygie]

I want to read his theories on consciousness

 

[EndlessEntity]

heres one http://www.experiencefestival.com/consciousness off google. quit being lazy plz and stop trying to discredit people it just makes you look hateful

 

[IJesusChrist]

U MAD BRO>?

 

[waygie]

"Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty"

i just dont agree with that

 

[EndlessEntity]

To IJC: no are you? im curious because thats what i was addressing, your and waygies need to discredit people and be right which in turn evolved into an angry thread of im right your not

 

[EndlessEntity]

"Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty"

i just dont agree with that

you dont want to free your brain from illusion? be free from the prison of self induced psychosis? your choice. I try to embrace all and everything, to be one with the universe. and you being a part of me are already forgiven for having an opinion critical of yourself and one that is self destructive...
i accept your desire to distance yourself from the universal 'oneness' but as you said "i just dont agree with that"

 

[IJesusChrist]

...I just didn't see Plato's allegory very meaningful and you attacked me personally...

I didn't say anything about you finding it insightful or not, I made no statement about you personally, I don't know why you needed to adress my intellectual capacities after it. I still don't find it that meaningful.

 

[EndlessEntity]

im sorry if i came off that way. but i've read alot of your posts. i've asked you questions and been ignored by you
i've seen you be very critical of people and i guess this led to me forming an opinion of you even though i don't know you
but i see what you said to VLAD and to ROB and how you and waygie argue.
im sure you remember vlad. that should be a lesson that being critical of others is not the route to be taking
and i dont harbor any delusions that i have never been critical of others, we're all human. but i am willing to forgive myself and move on and try to be better.

when you were talking to rob you were telling him he was a Schitzo and that he was fucked up. but i read all robs posts and he was really just trying to shrug off everyones views that were being pushed on him. yea he was a little hateful
but i'd like to see a guy who isnt after getting "gangbanged by antagonist weasles" as he liked to put it

 

[waygie]

"Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty"

i just dont agree with that

you dont want to free your brain from illusion? be free from the prison of self induced psychosis? your choice. I try to embrace all and everything, to be one with the universe. and you being a part of me are already forgiven for having an opinion critical of yourself and one that is self destructive...
i accept your desire to distance yourself from the universal 'oneness' but as you said "i just dont agree with that"

no no no no no no.....thats not what i'm thinking. you're one with the universe weather you realize it or not. but unlike you i don't think it should be a goal to tune yourself into the universe (your version of becoming one with it) i think you should tune the universe into you
love is just as much an illusion as hate. i think we should see things for what they are as they pertain to us (and our happiness)
when it comes to things you cant change (and there isn't much) you should learn to love it and see beauty in it. but it's self destructive to learn to love the shit you're in rather than get out of it

 

[EndlessEntity]

dont say unlike me. you are like me. we just have different prejudices.

i never said it was "the goal" but if you accept it and love it it makes the ride that much easier


i agree with about all of that except the last sentence.

 

[IJesusChrist]

By you bringing vlad into this I think you have a twisted view of me and what my posts mean.

I cared for vlad, and I knew where he was.

When people shrug off advice and serious concern as if the person giving it is an ignorant child, then I become critical. I have an important message when I am not being an ALL CAPS dousche bag, as I have done so and will continue to do so, but as this post is, I am usually very, very serious.

I've seen my fair share of good and bad, and I feel my judgeing and handeling of intense thought and situations is worth shareing and considering. When I become critical like I do with rob and did with vlad it is because they are not listening to what I am saying - they are not opening up to the possibility that I know what I am talking about.

When my experience and intelligence on a matter gets questions I am fast to react and insist on my view point and advice as helpful.

You can lead a horse to water...

I don't remember calling rob schitzo, I think that was waygie actually. If I did call him schitzo, I really honestly don't remember.

 

[EndlessEntity]

if you wanna see what you said to rob just read the thread lol and dont delete you post that would be silly. you tend to get angry very quick
you called me an "all caps dousche" and this is a perfect example of the hatred and desire to discredit that i was drawing attention to.
i was just trying to talk to you and for a bit you were cool but then i saw the angry side of you so.
if you noticed i've just been trying to tell everyone to get along and stop getting all angry at eachother its stupid.
you never answered me in (dmt-staring at the ceiling) either lol

 

[waygie]

you were telling him he was a Schitzo

yea that was me....and he is