Combining Caapi+Peganum Harmala

[HeartCore]

Christmas even it's my turn to experience Ayahuaca. I intent to fast four days prior.

Since I had one succesful aya journey in my life, a very mild dose of mimosa with peganum harmala and both 'real' brews only made me sleep. I am playing with the thought of brewing a combined brew:

100 grams Banisteriopsis Caapi
1.5 gram of Peganum Harmala
15-20 grams of Mimosa

A few questions,

Anyone know a reason not to do this combo?
L&P HC

 

[scamie]

Why not drink ayahuasca with a shaman if i may ask?
I drank with norma panduro my first time. In the beginning i was a bit uncomfortable with the idea of a group. But afterwards i would not do it without the guidence!! I have seen what can happen ... sometimes you really need some assistance and the healing of the shaman!! I was sceptic about this.. but i experiences the guidence of norma and her icaros!! I also asked her the question of people drinking alone in the west because of the lack of shamans. She said it can be dangerous. Every time you go in deeper. and she said one can get lost.
And also a group experience turned out to be very magical
Now i am not a expert!! but its worth mentioning.al this.
There are also a lot of people who drink alone!! so Be carefull and enjoy the magic medicine

 

[GOD]

Sounds like one of uncle Terences heroic doses to me . But why the mix of MAOIs ? If i were you i`d do two brews , one with each and after 45 minutes if the one isnt doing the trick take the other . And why fast for 4 days , you dont eat shit so you dont need to . Just keep away from fatty , hard to digest things for a few days and pray your neigbours dont have her " every 28 days " furnature throwing session . I always wait till most people are in bed = 12 till 5 at night .

 

[Forkbender]

furnature throwing session

I had this on a shroom trip once. Turns out the neighbours were planning on moving out that day. Thank GOD for earplugs.

 

[HeartCore]

Why not drink ayahuasca with a shaman if i may ask?

It's kind of a challenge for me to drink Aya without a shaman present

l&v

Sounds like one of uncle Terences heroic doses to me .

You know, when in doubt. Last two attempts at aya failed. Last time two days of cooking/boiling, boiling it down, fight the evil taste, lay down, feel it coming up, experience 30 seconds of visuals emerging, back to baseline.

So I figured this time I go for a sure does. Still, I don't believe the intensity will come close to my 120 gram mushroom trip two months ago

 

[GOD]

This sounds like fun to me . Have a nice flight . And report.........................but this time more than just ........." WOW ! "........please .

 

[scamie]

Is it smart to drive a super powere speedboat on a rough ocean... and you do not know how the bloody boat works???
maybe you manage a couple of time because the sea is not so rough and the water is flat... but be carefull you never know when the sea is getting tough
( from the lecture of jeremy narby and arno adelaars).

 

[HeartCore]

If you have driven speedboats about twice as fast as almost everybody else you know for the past 15 years, you have an advantage when trying out a new boat.

A boat is a boat.

Edit: I have a lot of respect for Arno Adelaars but I feel he is overreacting a bit about the dangers of Ayahuasca. I mean what kind of bullshit is it to finish a lecture about Ayuahuasca, with a man cutting off his own dick? (yesterday stichting Open lecture).

 

[Maxi]

Why not drink ayahuasca with a shaman if i may ask?

This is some ritual i defenatly want to try, and yes with different shamans to, since they all have there own rituals. Witch makes it fascinating.

It's kind of a challenge for me to drink Aya without a shaman present Wink

Drinking Aya in whatever situation you are in is a big challange, even when you think you are in the same as last time, still a big challange, because you don`t know what Aya is up to this time.
I have taken Aya 1 time now, 1,5 week ago without a shaman, and it`s something that i can ever experience again in the same way, next time i don`t know what will happen, i will just let it happen and see.

but this time more than just ........." WOW ! "........please .

hahaha, yes i can understand him saying just...."WOW!"
Some things you see/feel in/with whatever psychedelic you just don`t have the words for.
What i tried after the Ayahuasca to find some words for others to understand is to compare this Ayahuasca experience with my Mushroom experience i had 1,h mounth ago.
For me personally, Mushrooms are more gentle to me, sweeter on my body and a discovering/exploring of myself and the Ayahuasca was a meeting with Mother Nature, in this case the plant, kicking my ass big time.
Since everything happend so fast for me and my body got sick i had the introduction, the meeting with Mother Nature and next time, who knows what will happen, she knows, the plant does, i don`t...yet.

Edit: I have a lot of respect for Arno Adelaars but I feel he is overreacting a bit about the dangers of Ayahuasca. I mean what kind of bullshit is it to finish a lecture about Ayuahuasca, with a man cutting off his own dick? (yesterday stichting Open lecture).

I also was there with HeartCore. I also had a strange feeling about Arno`s last words, about the guy cutting his own dick. This is defenatly an example of not closing a speech in the right way. These words stayed in my head, scary words, and messed up the beginning of Jeremy`s speech for me.
What will that do to ppl who never had this experience?
End with a message that it`s very important not to do this as a joke or alone.
Do this with good preparation and a sitter.
Heartcore is my sitter in every experience i have had that gives me personally a good feeling, to know that what ever happens, there is still someone taking care of me. Witch we all experience in or own way ofcourse.

Hugs Maxi

 

[HeartCore]

Actually I wrote that sweety

Anyway let me make clear the intention of my question. I am asking about the combination of Peganum Harmala and Banisteriopsis Caapi in such a mix, that the combined MAOI is around a 'normal' ayahuasca dose. What I am looking for is stuff like:

'Yeah I did it, makes a great mix' or, 'you should not do it because molecule this from this plant, dislike the molecules of this plant' or.

For example, I heard Terence comment once on his attempt of mixing Ayahuasca with mushrooms and had the most difficult experience of my life and if something like this is known with combination mentioned mix, I would love to know it before ingesting it.


I have respect for Jeremy Narby, but he's no shaman. I also have a lot of respect for Arno Adelaars, but he isn't a speaker.

 

[joscovich]

Hello HC,

about combining caapi+harmala.
both plants work on the same principle. they both MAO inhibitor and the working substence is (harmine+harmaline). Combining the two would make no adissional problem. Question is do you want to ingest the amount of plant materiaal (100 grm of caapi makes for a lot of liqued)

You said that cooking the aya in the tratitional way didn't work out for you. I have had the same experience. Cooking the harmala/caapi with the mimosa and trinking it had very little effect. Drinking the harmal/caapi 30 minutes before drinken the mimosa worked out great! Especialy with a complete empty stomache(did it waking up in the morning) i had a great trip with only 3 grams of harmala and 4 grams of mimosa!

wich brings my to my second question. The dose you want to ingest is a lot. I know you have had a lot experience with mushrooms and stuff but still. Taking such a big dose after not eating for 4 days is not for the faint hearted, beisides that: eating nothing for four days, than do something that consumes a lot of mental energy aka in this case sugar can't be that healthy i think. And a low sugarlevel in your blood won't be good for your trip (atleast i think) because it can disfunction your ability to comprihend the experience since you don't have the energy..

in mine opinion, take less caapi (say 50 grams) maybe a bit more harmala (2,5 grams) and you have more then plenty enough MAO inhibitor the get the effect of the DMT. And take a bit less mimosa or atleast take everything in smaller doses (so let say begin with 5/7,5 grams, and then up every time with 2,5/5 grams depending how you feel. Be carefull with re-dosing sinds i always thouht i would feel the full effects in 45 minutes but for my it generaly takes about 1 hour and 15 to get to the peak

And remember there is alway another day to do it again with a bigger dose if you didn't feel you got there yet!!!

Have a nice trip (maybe you going to meet the chrismase spirit , who knows)

 

[HeartCore]

Hi joscovich thanks for your reply!

Seperate brews:

First time I prepared traditional ayahuasca, I combined the plant material and it didn't have an effect. The second time, I cooked them seperately for a long time, cooked them down, first drank the caapi and 30 minutes later the DMT drink. This was Caapi + chaliponga. I only experienced an onset, like visuals started to come up for maybe thirty seconds, then it just died out and it was gone. This was around 75 grams of caapi and a big pile of chaliponga.

The only succesful Aya brew I had thus far, was with 2.5 grams of rue and 5 grams of Mimosa. It was very mild though.

I agree with the fasting, howerver, I will consume vegetable soup and fruitfjuices during those days so it's not as if i am completely drained of energy on the day of the journey. My girlfriend went before me one week ago and she did this fast for six days and apart from some excessive vomiting at the start of the journey, there where no real issues.

Question is do you want to ingest the amount of plant materiaal (100 grm of caapi makes for a lot of liqued)

I intent this time to start brewing three days before the journey. It should be ready at the end of that first day and then I can basically filter and decant for two days which should get rid of most plant material. The brew I prepared for my girl, was very heavy in plant material and this was probably causing most of the vomiting in her journey./

 

[GOD]

" she did this fast for six days and apart from some excessive vomiting at the start of the journey, there where no real issues. "

The headache ?????? ( and excessive vomiting ) .

I think most of the people who call themselves "shaman" or "curandero" are money babas . = be your own shaman or find someone who you trust , who has loads of experience and do it with him / her .

The bit about Arno Adelaars disapoints me , for me he was always b-team as i`ve never seen anything from him that was new and from him . I have read all he had to say before , but i liked the way he put it so i bought his book . I dont believe the bit about someone cutting off his plonker as i have never heard it anywhere before and cant recall it being on the MAPS forum . I have heard that someone did it after taking Datura , and also about someone on Datura cutting off his own tong , but i cant imagin any normal person doing anything like that on Ayahuasca . I want to see the proof....... and i dont mean a bloody prick on plate !!!! I mean a documented case from a reliable source . But yes thats a strange way to end a speach . It sounds to me that Arno might have had a bad time on Ayahuasca and has become a little paranoid.......i hope it wasnt his own willy that got the chop ?????

"What will that do to ppl who never had this experience?"

I`m not sure wich way you mean that ???????........ But.......I have never cut my dong off but the thought makes him shrink and hide !!!! I dont plan to do it to see what its like either ......

"End with a message that it`s very important not to do this as a joke or alone. "

I definately agree.....DONT CUT YOUR CHOPPER OFF..........

I agree with joscovich .

On the subject of exesive plant material . I have had Ayahuasca , some original Daime , that had been properly filtered , wich must have taken weeks or have been done with a vacume filter , and had been left to stand in a fridge for months so it was clear red , like good sherry and about the same consistency . It was lovely , nicely strong and i had absolutly no physical symptoms at all .

 

[afer]

I wouldn't advice combining MAOIs, as they can synergize each other (recall reading this on ayahuasca.com forums).
I myself had 2 aya experiences. The first one with 10g mimosa and 5 g rue and the second one with 25 grams of Chaliponga and same amount of rue.
Mimosa was cool, but not strong enough. Chaliponga sucked ass- it gave a lot more nausea than mimosa and did almost nothing.
I also made aya to several people and noted that when it comes to mimosa, 30 minutes of boiling on high fire is all it needs. No water change or whatsoever. 1/2 of lemon was always added to brew. I think it makes sense, as the native tribes take water from the rivers with low ph and low dgh. The tap water usually has a pH of 8 or even higher, at least here in Latvia.
After all, I can't wait for my mimosa to be delivered .Planning to make the voyage on next saturday. The trip report will follow :wink:
oh, almost forgot to mention that the rue was split into two doses. One was eaten raw 30 minutes prior to ingestion of the brew and the remaining 2.5 grms had been added to the brew.