How do you all feel towards chemicals and natural psychedelics? A lot of people see chemicals as the devil for the psychonautical comunity and wil stay away from chemicals, other people tend to think that chemicals are stronger and better to dose than natural products. I think there is not much of a diference between nature and chemicals, the only diference is that with chemicals we produce the substance and with naturals the plants synthesise the chemicals, in my opinion the soul or character of a entheogene is atached to the chemicals in a substance and thus always present. but other people probably feel very diferent about this and I am curios about your opinions.
Chemical VS Natural
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Rutger
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I think the effect of chemicals and natural products is different. Many times the natural product is a combination of alkaloids that all work together to achieve an effect (cacti, kratom, ephedra). Taking the chemical form is most of the times only taking the most potent alkoloid and not the whole range of other simular alkoloids , perhaps there is the difference ?
yeah, that's true, and most of all:
most natural drugs confront you with the world, and most of all yourself.
most chemical drugs make you forget and run away from things and not confront you.
and thus it takes courage to stay with the natural, and easy to stay with the chemical.
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also, natural drugs is like eating rawfood, you feel when you had enough, you are in communication with your body.
chemical drugs are like eating fastfood, you can't hear when your body has enough, and justy want more
most natural drugs confront you with the world, and most of all yourself.
most chemical drugs make you forget and run away from things and not confront you.
and thus it takes courage to stay with the natural, and easy to stay with the chemical.
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also, natural drugs is like eating rawfood, you feel when you had enough, you are in communication with your body.
chemical drugs are like eating fastfood, you can't hear when your body has enough, and justy want more
j-lazy
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i dont agree with this. in my opinion you can have a trip with chemicals that is just as natural as natural drugs. i do think that natural drugs get you in contact with nature more. but i dont think that chemicals make you run away for something. i can trip on chemical drugs just as nice as natural drugs.
( lsd and 2c-b work different), did you ever had a ''bad trip'' on coke or mdma? and I don't mean getting sick, but mentally.
I never had with chemical drugs ''bad trips'' because they don't confront you with thing like natural stuff do.
I never had with chemical drugs ''bad trips'' because they don't confront you with thing like natural stuff do.
Rutger
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Sorry but that is comparing apples with pears (sorry for the direct translation out of dutch, but know no other way to say it).
Chemicals like Speed and Coke are completely different than LSD or Psilocybin. The difference is more in the way the certain compound, either chemical or natural is how its working on your brain.
I also have seen people go bad on MDMA though, didn't look very nice and I do not mean only physical.
But more on topic, I read a report about at trip that Hoffman took to South America. He there gave the shaman some pills with Psilocybin to test if "the Spirits" was also in these pills or only in the shrooms.
In the beginning the shaman told Hoffman that it was not the same but it just took longer for the pills to work. She had a large dose and after the trip told him that "the spirits" were too in pills.
Chemicals like Speed and Coke are completely different than LSD or Psilocybin. The difference is more in the way the certain compound, either chemical or natural is how its working on your brain.
I also have seen people go bad on MDMA though, didn't look very nice and I do not mean only physical.
But more on topic, I read a report about at trip that Hoffman took to South America. He there gave the shaman some pills with Psilocybin to test if "the Spirits" was also in these pills or only in the shrooms.
In the beginning the shaman told Hoffman that it was not the same but it just took longer for the pills to work. She had a large dose and after the trip told him that "the spirits" were too in pills.
For me personally the difference is in the depth of the experience. With LSD, I've tripped really hard but always felt I was experiencing me, me, and more me.
With psilocybin and DMT (aya), for me there's always the presence of the 'other', some entity, soul or whatever word you prefer. Also, dmt and psilocybin also have distinct characters, this is my own experience and goes for a lot of others also.
Practically, I think because of the long history of use, plants are much better suited for shamanic work than chemicals. They have a history, there is (there should!) be respect for the plant and the tradition which is simply not there for something like lsd.
I think this is especially true for DMT.
HC
With psilocybin and DMT (aya), for me there's always the presence of the 'other', some entity, soul or whatever word you prefer. Also, dmt and psilocybin also have distinct characters, this is my own experience and goes for a lot of others also.
Practically, I think because of the long history of use, plants are much better suited for shamanic work than chemicals. They have a history, there is (there should!) be respect for the plant and the tradition which is simply not there for something like lsd.
I think this is especially true for DMT.
HC
Forkbender
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forest a dit:
I do not agree. If used responsibly, you can have a very insightful trip on for example MDMA. You will see within your self and how you do things. You can look at yourself more objective than normal and see where you make errors. This is valuable in and of itself.
I myself have been trying some chemicals lately
but I must say that most of them have a bad effect on me
I feel sick or very uncomfortable
just the idea that something that comes from nature itself gives me more comfort
and also the idea that these plants have been around even before mankind existed and that these chemicals have been made in the last .. what is it ?? 100 years ??
and like Heartcore said especially dmt.. its something thats even in your brain...
and its found everywhere in nature... this really makes me a person of natural drugs
but I guess its also a matter of opinion and experience
but I must say that most of them have a bad effect on me
I feel sick or very uncomfortable
just the idea that something that comes from nature itself gives me more comfort
and also the idea that these plants have been around even before mankind existed and that these chemicals have been made in the last .. what is it ?? 100 years ??
and like Heartcore said especially dmt.. its something thats even in your brain...
and its found everywhere in nature... this really makes me a person of natural drugs
but I guess its also a matter of opinion and experience
Forkbender
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But then again, is there a strict line of division? Cocaine and heroine are derived from the active substances in coca-leafs and poppies respectively. Even LSD has a tight connection to Ergot, which is found in nature. It's a matter of dividing things and I don't think you can do that without making some errors.
tryptonaut
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I also think the only difference between "chemical" and "natural" is in people's minds. Everything is chemical, plants, animals, humans - it's all pure chemistry!
Most "chemical drugs" are not synthetic but half-synthetic anyways (LSD, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines)
If you smoke dmt crystals, is it a chemical or a natural drug? It has certainly been extracted from plant material (->chemical processing) and it is now a crystalline substance that tastes like burning plastic... doesn't sound very natural to me.
When I first took shrooms I had been told by friends that it was going to feel a lot more natural than lsd (which I had done before). For me, it didn't! It felt roughly the same as lsd.
Maybe my understanding for a "natural" feeling is different - I think a liter of beer feels "natural", but psychedelic drugs feel like their out of this world
Most "chemical drugs" are not synthetic but half-synthetic anyways (LSD, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines)
If you smoke dmt crystals, is it a chemical or a natural drug? It has certainly been extracted from plant material (->chemical processing) and it is now a crystalline substance that tastes like burning plastic... doesn't sound very natural to me.
When I first took shrooms I had been told by friends that it was going to feel a lot more natural than lsd (which I had done before). For me, it didn't! It felt roughly the same as lsd.
Maybe my understanding for a "natural" feeling is different - I think a liter of beer feels "natural", but psychedelic drugs feel like their out of this world
well yeah, but with chemical or synthetics they are takin out of theyre contekst. a few things are isolated out of a plant. that's exactly what theyre doing with the modern medicine industry all along but it is a fact that it is better to take the stuff with the whole plant and all its qualities.
allso ayahuasca and cacti and more have when you take the plant a cleansing effect, like throwing up. but when you isolate stuff that part get's lost, doesn't it?
allso ayahuasca and cacti and more have when you take the plant a cleansing effect, like throwing up. but when you isolate stuff that part get's lost, doesn't it?
Mo0dy
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I totally agree with tryptonaut. It's all about mindset. If you think natural is different from chemicals, then the trip will be different also, because you'll want to be different. If that makes sense ..
Also I think others alkaloids does play a role in natural substances, but that doesn't makes the trip better or more in connection with nature, just different
Just my 2 cents
Also I think others alkaloids does play a role in natural substances, but that doesn't makes the trip better or more in connection with nature, just different
Just my 2 cents
Goran.Hrsak
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Natural or no. This is question like before 20 years for GMF(food) or not.Some chemicals are just need for treatment of desises.So if pscho drugs, but if someone make you DMT(Chrystal) in MAOi tea you will belive that that is Ayahuasca.But what desturbs me is the ancient mits,stories of true rituals with psycho drugs that mass of psychonauts do not respect,and belives that every trip is spiritual,NO it can be just only fun or XP-! Know what im talking about!Whant to know what do you think about my post 8)