Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

En vous enregistrant, vous pourrez discuter de psychotropes, écrire vos meilleurs trip-reports et mieux connaitre la communauté

Je m'inscris!

bad brains.

mindfukked

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
12 Fev 2008
Messages
82
o0o I haven't been here in a while.. I read some responses to my last post, and I would agree with the notion that the freezer tends to kill potency.

I have a more troublesome thought though. I don't know if anyones known a group of people who liked to do acid.. and known them for a while. But how did they change ? I mean, at first my only idea of acid was what a bunch of drug faschists threw at me, schizophrenia, flashbacks that end in manslaughter, etc. Then when I first began fucking around I did so with the confidence that it only triggered latent problems that were already there.

But it would seem that anyone I've met that has done more than drop just a handfull of times.. and kept dropping and.. well they're all nervous, strange people. I mean, Maynard.. fucking genius and a half.. I've heard him speak.. he seems to have a hold on reality and shit.. but he's definitely.. altered. I know this one kid who only took it once a year ago and he said he hasn't found his identity since that day, and he's been a mess ever since.

What the fuck is this ? Are mental problems inevitable ? Why does this happen ? I mean, I've had a couple of very uncomfortable experiences where I thought maybe I was going to get stuck. But after the drug wore off I was fine. But there seem to be many who experience adverse effects well after the trip is over with. I'm scared that this will happen because apparently, statistically, it happens tosome, and me and a good deal of people I know enjoy this and one of my friends has recently started having a lot of panic attacks.. and no one really wants to say it might be because of drugs but I think we all suspect it. I'm also scared I'm going to mind fuck myself into it, which is definitely usually the case when anything bad happens while transcending.

There's also this, which can be found on Erowid:

"Well, there's the study by Sidney Cohen which was cited here
recently, Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease, 130, 1960. The
following is from Jay Stevens' Storming Heaven: "Cohen surveyed a sample
of five thousand individuals who had taken LSD twenty-five thousand
times. He found and average of 1.8 psychotic episodes per thousand
ingestions, 1.2 attempted suicides, and 0.4 completed suicides.
'Considering the enormous scope of the psychic responses it induces,'
he concluded, 'LSD is an astonishingly safe drug.'"


Now, I could very well bewrong. But I was trying to do the math. .4 completed suicides per 1000 people in a case of 5,000 people is 2,000.. like.. 2 out of 5. Really ? Is that correct math ? I'm really horrible with numbers but I think that might be right. And if so, I'm suprised.

The reason why I'm worried is because so far, I seem to have handled it very well. But I was trying to use Google and was reading all these people who said they ateshrooms, dropped acid, all that, in their younger days, some of them until they started to feel weird, some until they had to get real jobs, w.e the case was.. but then that later on they started getting panic attacks that felt and looked just like lsd trips. Anyone ever experience this ?
 

st.bot.32

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
5 Oct 2007
Messages
3 886
honestly my experience has been pretty much the opposite of yours and i have met a LOT of psychedelic users in my time, pretty much all of which are successful people. maybe some of them could be considered "not normal" in that they are extremely creative or intelligent and don't fit in with joe sixpack. it's hard to say whether or not acid had a part in that.

i do agree though, there are people who should never take psychedelics. i don't know anyone who personally had any permanent problem after tripping, but anyone i've heard of who has was a. taking way too many drugs and or b. had latent mental issues and should never have been taking psychedelics in the first place. both of the above happen. i have definitely met psychedelic abusers who had to stop.

anyway as for your numbers lets figure it out.

you have to do a simple ratio exercise..

5000 people (averaging 5 ingestions each equaling 25000 total ingestions)

a ratio of 0.4 attempted suicides to 1000 ingestions

25000(0.4/1000)=10 total suicides (for the 5000 people). it may sound low but it is definitely much higher than the national average. but... all we know is they took acid. we don't know anything else (like health issues, what age/race demographic they fit into, etc)
 

toogoodforyou

Elfe Mécanique
Inscrit
9 Juin 2008
Messages
458
Mindfuckked maybe you are hanging out with the wrong kind of people. There are shit loads of idiots in this 'drug scene' who consume all kinds of shit without researching on it. The people you are talking about must have used acid along with other drugs. Most of the people who i know that fall in this category have no self control, they smoke cigarettes, abuse alcohol and pot almost everyday.

Plus its also what your mind projects certain things and you start beliving them. Eg: A thought comes in your mind that most people who have done acid multiple times are freaks. Your mind automatically focuses on the faults / wierdness of every person your meet and has done acid, at times they do not exist but your mind projects them.
 

toogoodforyou

Elfe Mécanique
Inscrit
9 Juin 2008
Messages
458
10 suicides per 5000 people is nothing, considering various psychological issues people can have.
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
14 Jan 2006
Messages
14 944
"Plus its also what your mind projects certain things and you start beliving them."

HPPD .
 

st.bot.32

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
5 Oct 2007
Messages
3 886
GOD a dit:
"Plus its also what your mind projects certain things and you start beliving them."

Psychedelics can help do that apparently, to those who aren't really paying attention to what's going on. :lol:
 

Caduceus Mercurius

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
14 Juil 2007
Messages
9 628
I don't know if anyones known a group of people who liked to do acid.. and known them for a while. But how did they change ?
I'd like to know how such people live their lives. Do they go to school or have a job (structure, responsibilities, challenges, progress) or did they "drop out", living on welfare and unhealthy food? Or did they become a celebrity (like Maynard), all of whom are a little weird? Were they perhaps eccentric artists to begin with? There are so many factors that determine whether someone is just using acid to make his or her escapism appear more noble and spiritual, or using it to really shape up and get their act together.
 

Sticki

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
13 Sept 2007
Messages
1 362
GOD a dit:
"Plus its also what your mind projects certain things and you start beliving them."

HPPD .

I agree totally, I call it conditioning of the mind tho. Achieved by intense negative activity in the open mind while on psychedelics or other substances, Its also achievable by over exposure to extreme circumstances in the normal mind.

Exposing yourself to the wrong people too frequently in an open frame of mind allows them to project negativity from themselves on to you too. Charles Manson is in prison for such things, supposedly.
 

spice

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
22 Déc 2006
Messages
3 774
I always found it interesting that Charles Manson was never accused/convicted of murder himself, he *talked other people* into doing it.

This is utter crap.

The reason he is in prison is because our lily-livered society was afraid of the implications thrust upon it by the revelations of Manson and company's acid experiences.

He didn't commit a crime.....he talked some weak minded people into committing crimes.

George Bush just got through doing that for EIGHT FUCKING YEARS and he is on
the ranch in Texas.

Give me a break, please.
 

time2poop

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
11 Nov 2008
Messages
46
good call with the mental projection and hppd talk. reality is a different place for everybody because it's subject to our perceptions. our perceptions are based on devices we use to detect stimuli (eyes/ears/etc) and our mind's interpretation of it. this means reality/perception is different for everybody, of course the physics will be the same but everybody's interpretation of it is different if even only slightly for some people. i think the link between physical/mental illness caused by lsd is just as stated above, caused because they take too many drugs in general or because they had an underlying mental problem that the lsd allowed them to get in touch with unfortunately.

my experience with lsd and users of psychedelics started out similar to what mindfukked is talking about but this was when i was younger and they all did drugs in excess so the lsd cannot be put to blame. after i eventually distanced myself from them and started living a more responsible life, my experience with lsd and users of psychedelics is basically what st.bot.32 was saying. they are typically more aware, grounded, and intellectual than "joe sixpack" although some may be able to be seen as not normal simply because they speak on a deeper level, but IMHO not loopy or unable to function in society by any means. on the contrary they contribute a great deal to society simply by displaying the way they carry themselves and project their energy.
 

mindfukked

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
12 Fev 2008
Messages
82
I think really what it is, is that lately I'm just worried about some of my friends. I really do believe that in 10 years, maybe 5, some of them will be in bad places mentally, and maybe in their everyday lives. Too many of my friends abuse lsd for no one to get fucked up by it. And when I say abuse I mean like.. I consider it abuse when you do it every weekend and/or skip school because you spent the night before sneaking out of your house to trip in a park all night in the freezing cold cause you had nowhere else to go and your mom doesn't know where you are.

And lately I've just been having a lot of thoughts about this chemical that my friends don't share. lol i dunno what my problem is, might be growing pains.
 

GOD

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
14 Jan 2006
Messages
14 944
Yep , thats abuse . Its not the LSD thats dangerous though its the people and how they do it . If they dont wake up soon they will fuck themselves . The key is self controll , faceing reality and stoping self pity and running away from their lives . First acept the reality of their lives , learn to live with it and then bend it . The other way round doesnt work as a person cant run away from themselves .
 
Haut