Aya (MOAI) and Tegretol (Carbamazepine)

[acim2]

I've been thinking about trying aya brew and have the opportunity to join a group which is relatively close by and works with a shaman from Peru.

A friend of mine introduced me to the group, and knows some of the participants well. She, however, takes tegretol (carbamazepine) for a very mild seizure disorder.

Carbamazepine is contraindicated with MOAIs, and is often listed as "Not to be given with, or within 14 days of starting or stopping MAOI therapy."

She feels confident that she'd be fine going off the tegretol for a few days without much trouble, but it would interfere with her daily activities because she wouldn't want to drive, etc.

With natural MOAIs in ayauasca, is it necessary for her to stay off for almost 30 days, 14 before and 14 after? Do those MOAIs potentially affect the system for a shorter period of time that pharmaceuticals?

Has anyone who takes carbamazepine ever done aya and how long did you stop taking carbamazepine?

I'd like her to be able to join me during the session, but want to get as much information as possible to determine if and how it would be safe for her to participate.

 

[druglessdouglas]

she may have to wait 3 weeks after the trip before she takes her meds again as some MAOIs persist for a long time in the body

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

DO NOT WORRY. I BELIEVE (IF SHE HAVE MILD SEIZURES WHEN THEY ATTACK HER (IF THEY ATTACK HER NOW ON TEGRETOL)) THAT SHE USES SOMETHING LIKE 400mg OF CARBAMZEPINE PER DAY. LOW DOSE.
MAOi SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY EFFECT WITH THAT DOSE. INCLUDE IN THIS HIGH TOLERANCE AND ADAPTATION TROUGH YEARS OF TAKING TEGRETOL!

IS SEROTONINE SYNDROME IS PROBLEM?,SHOULDN'T BE. THIS COMBINATION DOESN'T PRODUCE IT.
ONLY SOMEWHAT HIGHER SENSIBILITY TO SEIZURES OR SOMEWHAT LOWER LEVEL FIRE SWITCH ACTION.
BUT SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY.

SOME RIVOTRIL OR DIAZEPAM would be enough for seizure control.
Also bunch of meds place MAOi warning! But without much reason!
ONE BIG CONFIRMATION OF EVERYTHING ABOVE:
My psychiatrist 4-5 years ago prescribed to me Ritalin 40mg, Seroxat(paroxatine-SSRI) 40mg, Jumex-Niar (selegilinum-MAOi) 20mg, MST contin (morphine sulphate) 300mg and 6mg of XANAX SR.
If you read Internet posts with explanations of meds above, you will see that SSRI and MAOi are meds which are lethal in combination+amphetamine(ritaline)!!!! BUT NOTHING HAPPENED ALL THAT TIME! FOR 2 YEARS!

 

[GOD]

Why play poker with your life when you can do it properly and safely with natural substances that have been tested for thousands of years ?

 

[acim2]

What do you mean God?

Do you mean use some 1000 year old seizure suppression technique? I think many people would disagree and have been helped tremendously with modern pharmaceuticals for seizure control. It's one area where modern medicine really makes things better.

Do you mean use some older non-MOAI way to take DMT orally? I don't think that will work....the 1000 year old method use MOAIs, it's just that they are naturally occurring MOAIs.

Do you mean don't risk taking aya with a contra indicated medication? I tend to agree with that one.

Goran.Hrsak: I still couldn't advice her to do it. If I had some scientific info describing the threshold where there would be difficulties, I'd be more wiling to agree. Carbamazepine is usually one of the first things on the list for stuff not to take with MAOIs so I think it's not just a standard warning put there just in case...I think it really can be a problem.

My conclusion is to advice her not to join me....which is what she has been doing. I think one of two things would happen: She'd have a bad time because she'd be scared that something bad was happening to her even though nothing bad was happening. OR, something bad would really happen which would jeopardize her health and the group.

 

[BrainEater]

isn't ayahuashca supposed to heal mental and physical pain ? if you have a shaman maybe he can heal her from seizures. but well as you already described it is maybe better that you don't go to the ayahuasca ceremony together with her? or maybe you should do exactly that?? i don't know. what you could do is go together to the shaman and talk to him and ask him about his opinion.

peace.

 

[GOD]

High Acim2 ,

I`m sorry , i made a mistake and totaly missunderstood your first post . I have a bee in my bonet at the moment because i think we as a comunity must start to take more responsibility for what we do ourselves and what we advise othere people to do . Then there are people here advising others to oraly activate DMT with pharmaceutical MAOIs wich have never been properly tested , and also not been tested in combination with DMT . Who knows if people do it if they will have kids like those contagon victims . Thats why i say stay with the natural activators that have been tested for thousands of years .

"Do you mean don't risk taking aya with a contra indicated medication? "
That would make sense . I think it would be good to listen to Drugless . Better safe than sorry .

Again i`m sorry .

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

I have faith in my life keeper and soul guider. Nothing can slow me down, nothing can influence my health. If you combine science with traditional "music" nothing can happen to you or me.
If you are afraid of something that fear will endanger your soul, if you have fear of something fear will eat you, if you have fear of something that fear will use that weakness and at the end destroy you!

I never use entheogens for fun or to kill time, in fact I haven't used them for 8 months! I weren't ready! I weren't in life question, without answer. So why to take them? Psydelics are bitch! Bitch if you abuse them just like cocaine or heroin.

If someone ask me or this forum bout MAOi synthetic or natural I will give them answer. This doesn't count as something what I will groining to do, but I will not place false info bout something if never tried that before and for sure quarantine safety!

Just like post with MAOi and SSRI. I took MAOi with SSRI and uppers many times!!! Nothing happened! Maybe smaller hearth rate speedup and blood pressure. Only one time confusion and 15% of so called serotonine syndrome! Only one from 20 people experience S.syndrome. And only if they use OLD MAOi which I have classified as classic 3 MAOi's.
Tegretol is nothing. But tell me why you placed such topic? Topic, can someone use MAOi and Tegretol? And then you sad that this is to high risk?
You know that before? KNOW??? Decided before.

I do not know what to say.

 

[tryptonaut]

I would not ever temper with contra-indicated medication and maoi's unless I was 120% sure about the combination.

I once took a very little amount of yohimbe (a weak maoi) after I had had 60mg of ephedrine a few hours before. It was horrible, I started shaking like a fucking crack addict and I felt like shit. It has only a been a third teaspoon of yohimbe (almost nothing, you might say) and I had forgotten about the ephedrine (because I had used it like coffee during the day, one ephedra supercap, which is a nice stimulant, but not extremely much). This experience has tought me that any drug contraindicated with maois can be extremely unpleasant and really dangerous.

If you only got 50% of this bodily unpleasant and painful feeling while being on a psychedelic drug I can guarantee you the most horrible trip of your life!

Serotonine syndrome might sound like fun (who doesn't like serotonine?), but it's in reality the most unpleasant way to die that you could ever imagine, with unbearable pain throughout your whole nervous system.

If your friend wants to be sure she might try very little (and I mean very little!) amounts of maoi substances first and see if she gets any adverse effects. If there's no side effects she can try higher amounts of maoi alone, without any dmt - and then, if everything is okay, she can advance to ayahuasca.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

Tryptonaut you speak truth!
Start easy, low dose, see how you will respond, wise and safe.

Yohimbine is shit!!! Poison!!! Toxic shit! I have full bottle near me, actually on my desk. I gave 25€ for 60 pills (2000mg or two grams in one pill)
I took first time 6 pills, 3 days of shaking, confusion, angry mind, fucked up mind and thoughts! Yohimbine is shit! You have not felt some kind of symptoms or serotonin illness, only side effects of that drug-FAKE-upper.

But what U think?, could big dose, like 10grams be enough for harmaline substitute? Yohimbine is (bark extract) entheogenic, so DMT from plant and MAOi effects from Yohimbine root bark together can be some kind of South American and African AYAHUASCA???

 

[acim2]

I posted because I wasn't sure if there was a shorter period of affect from natural MOAIs than pharmaceutical MOAIs. (Or potentially there were different types of natural or pharmaceuticals that affect you for a shorter period of time.)

I was hoping that maybe the natural ones would only require her to avoid contraindictated meds for a day or two. If that was the case, it would be easy to stop the contraindicated meds for a few days (depending on tegretols halflife) and then do the ayahuasca ceremony...and go back on the meds a few days later.

But....a month without seizure control is not possible for her. She has to drive to get to work, and it'd be to risky.

I doubt she'd want to test things out because she'd have to stop meds for a few days each time she increased the MAOIs in the test...which is a burden in itself.

I'm not sure what I'll do. I don't know the group as well as her, and would feel a little strange going with a group that I didn't know well. Maybe I will find someone else to go with me. It seems like a nice opportunity to have a shaman from Peru coming to my area so I don't have to travel to Peru....but I'd want to make sure I'd feel comfortable, especially with all the purging stuff and all.

Thanks for the responses everyone, you all helped with the decision.

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

ACIM2, you know many things bout "HERS" intentions!!
Is maybe "HER" you??? I use this on my psychiatrist! He played the game, but he blow me up, of course. 8) :wink:

 

[acim2]

I thought you were supposed to use SWIM and FOAF for that.
(Not for the psychiatrist, but for message boards :wink: )

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

 

[GOD]

"Is maybe "HER" you??? "

Thanks Goran .

High Acim2 , it is like that on some forums but if you think about it its silly . When i see people saying me , or just being neutral and not mentioning anyone i think that they are just a normal punter . If they say SWIM i think it just atracts attention and makes people think the person has something to hide . = they point the finger at themselves . Its a bit like when someone rings up and says " the book last week wasnt that good have you got a better one now ???? " and thinks the pigs dont notice .

My mom used to say "Pooo !!! the dogs let one off again !!!! " , but everyone knew it was her.........

Just laugh

Love GOD

 

[Goran.Hrsak]

I thought you were supposed to use SWIM and FOAF for that.
(Not for the psychiatrist, but for message boards :wink: )

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.

I do not get you Americans!! BSTH this, SWIM that, swim in lake! :lol:
FOAF me!
Just like BSPM! Uf!
But is her you? But for real!?
Do not play confusing games with words (Jebem ti mater ameri