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Anyone who DOESN'T see 'god' on his explorations?

Dantediv86

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At this point i would suggest that it depends on points of view
the reason why you are explorating and what you(your mind expects)
example:

-you just wanna escape reality and take a nice dose of LSD ....you see your visuals you get your altered state you are happy and that's it
-you really expect LSD to help you find answers to your spiritual questions...you get your visuals and you read into them and into your altered state the message of God (or whatever YOU believe in)

it really depends on your state of mind

and the substance you are taking

as a matter of fact there are Psychedelics and Entheogens

psychedelcs get your mind working and you deal with it

entheogens allow you to generate the "theo" "within"

again there is no boundary between the two and those are just set by the individual, again is but a point of view (not necessairily what i see as entheogen is entheogenic to someone else)
 

st.bot.32

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Dantediv86 a dit:
-you just wanna escape reality and take a nice dose of LSD ....you see your visuals you get your altered state you are happy and that's it
-you really expect LSD to help you find answers to your spiritual questions...you get your visuals and you read into them and into your altered state the message of God (or whatever YOU believe in)

it really depends on your state of mind

Interesting how your "state of mind" will also influence the way you actually use the psychedelic as well. If you drop acid to see visuals at parties you will have a profoundly different experience than someone having a philosophical discussion, or someone painting, or alone meditating with eyes closed.
 

Meduzz

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Each human has need of spirituality, and i choose psychedelics because ingesting a substance is a way more objective channel than organised religion.
Psychedelics and church are very similar: they saturate the craving for transcendence.
But psychedelics preach the religion of the self and the environment, not some old dusty law...
 

Dantediv86

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the thing is that Psychedelics don't preach dude
 

Forkbender

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Meduzz a dit:
because ingesting a substance is a way more objective channel than organised religion.

I don't think this is the case. It might transcend the distinction between object and subject, but calling it objective seems silly to me.
 

mutant

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the thing is that Psychedelics don't preach dude
maybe not, but psychedelic theists do, and a passionate individual ranting about this experience with the other side can be a bit preachy. No??

[...'take the journey, let go, feel the oneness, feel the big picture'...]

I was really surprised the catholic church still had to offer something spiritual like that.
the church cannot 'offer' anything spiritual, it's man that utilises or not the spiritual experience because of individual sensitivity, inclination etc.

"...If you love god, burn a church..."
Jello Biafra, singer od Dead Kennedys

=========

And I came to find out that there is nothing, other than the Self Existance.
sure, and then you die, and then virtually nothing exists - well many stuff still exist, but you're not there anymore to witness.

what are we? a bunch of idiots suffering from an overdose of existentialism?
Exactly, you couldn't have said it better!!! :)
 

random

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When my body dies, I still exist. Not as this particular self, with a particular id, a particular history of experiences, etc... but I still exist. Because I believe we are no more or less than cells. That are constantly "borning" and "dying". We are One Self.

There's no one special. There are only "program errors". And the result is Einsteins, Jimmy Hendrixs, Van goghs.. Or deficient persons with mental or body disabilities.

We are organic life. And organic life, for me, is a very complex "program" that rebuilds it self, corrects errors to itself by itself ( just like our bodys. You don't need to think, or be aware, of the process of curing your head hackes or your constipations. The body corrects those errors by itself ). And the only way to make it grow (evolution), is to pick monkeys (in this case) and give them freewill, the believe of their Uniqueness, conscious of pleasure, counscious of feelings etc... This leads to where we are now. Everyone(almost) thinks they are special. They are not. We are not. We are the same.
"I am you and what I see is me"
In our daylife, we are constantly seeing other beings. But actually they are no they. They are you. The thing is, as Alan Watts said, "we can only be on one place each time". We are One.

Try to put it this way, you think ents are special in their nests? Like ents are all diferent from each other, they are unique and separate from all other ents? No. They are a complex organism. A complex form of energy(life). Just like we are, or bees, or roses, or mosquitos, or sharks, or mushrooms, or whatever.... We are complex organisms , living inside a complex organism, that lives inside another complex organism, and another and another... and we call it Universe. And... we are made of complex organisms, that are made of complex organisms, that are made of...that I call it Universe also.

There is no end and there is no start. There is only Self Existance. (ent is a self, you are a self, a plant is a self)

Yet, I believe we, as Human race, are more complex than ents or any other form of life living on this planet. I don't need to justify it. Just look around.

So.. if I die, I believe, I'm still here. I am you. Or anyother thing living on this planet.
We are made of energy. And organic life is made of energy. And the Self that "controls" the distribution of energy in this planet will pick my or your or who/whatever energy "dies" and sends it another way. Or simply vanishs, to "born" another form of life/energy.

And we as a race, can't handle this extra energy that was given to us. Because we are apes with superpowers. And we can't handle it. That's why we live with all this wars, hunger, thirst, muderings (not only between us, but also against other forms of life), defilers, pedophilia, mental disorders, suicide, and the list goes on and on...
The enviornment that we created to live in is starting (well, already started long time ago) to get too much complex. We can't handle it.
So what is coming, in my opinion, or it's a evolutionary step in our conscioussness. So we can handle the enviornment that we've been creating since.. I don't know...decades(?). Or there will be Khaos and Auto-Self-Destruction. And for me, this last option makes more sense than the first one(since it's only a hope). Because if I continue with my speech of all this are complex organisms that are made of more complex organisms, and so on... So, for me, it suits perfectly the Idea that the Life of the Earth has come to an end. Like the Earth "soul"/energy will vanish to another place in the universe, where it's needed.

For me, every planet on our solar system, had Life once. But it had to come to an end. Just like everything. And what it's left, it's the Planet (mars for example). Just like ourselfs or anyother life form. When we die, we leave our body behind and the energy is sended another way, where it's needed.

I hope I made my opinion clear of what all this "shit" is. :p
And sorry if the english is not that good.

Love
 

buffachino

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In the event of death, one does not cease to exist; one simply realizes that the self never existed at all.
One is yet again reborn into the indefinable.
The Atomos.

Existence beckons to the heart, revealing the quintessence of the impossible.
Our existence is but a catacomb of dreams; a labyrinth of sensation.
A teeming cascade of intent, the fleeting memory of the will to become.
One moment evermore, we emerge into the light, and all that was becomes what it is…

A distant memory of that which never occurred; a hypnotic dance of love forever eternal.

At death, we meet ourselves.

Peace.
 
G

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mutant a dit:
yeah, you can say that.... not that I am after control and domination, but yep I lean a bit to the dark side. I like the devil while I hate god, because sin is life :P

So you do believe in God, Mutant?
 

Forkbender

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^LOL.

Exactly the point the eminent Professor of Philosophy G.K. Chestorton made. If you are an atheist, you are just as much attached to the idea of a God as when you are a theist. The only thing that is different is that instead of pulling towards this idea, one is trying to get away from it.
 

mutant

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7 Fev 2008
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So you do believe in God, Mutant?

The quote is from a differnt topic, [urlhttp://www.psychonaut.com/index.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=11&page=viewtopic&p=81316&lang=en#81316]here[/url], were datura has been among others quite passionaly demonised.

The quote about me liking the devil, or 'you GOT to love the devil' is schematic or symbolic. I like what the devils represents , especially for christianity. Take a look at the gods Pan or Dionysus as the devil that I have in mind...

Don't let something that wasn't really said that seriously lead into the "atheism is a religion" type of discussion - but if you want, I do it any time. :P

'Conscious atheism' or what Douglas Adams has described as 'radical atheism' is not really a religion. It's definately something different, but you really want it to be dogma-likel, huh?? I have noticed that every such conversation that lasts enough, eventually has to go through this..

atheism as the is inexistence of any dogmas, not another one. also atheism is not 'trying to get away from it'[god], this is agnosticism. "trying to get away from it" is fear of god, and is ultimately the foundation of religion and awe.

If atheists care about god and religion, its not only because religions are oppressive mechanisms supported by tyrants of the world, but also the matter fascinates me philosophically. It IS fascinating, you don't need the doubt or belief to find it such ;)
 
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