All Roads Lead To Prison

[Shamanomenon]

I've come to the realization that all of the things in life that divide and conquer us as people ultimately stem from one simple idea. Freedom. There are those who believe that people should be free to live in peace and there are those that wish to force their will upon others through the use of threats and violence. All of life is really that simple. Everything else that we believe is just a distraction, a strategically devised deception created by those who are on the side of force. This is the history of the world. I believe that there is an awakening taking place all over the world and more and more people are becoming aware of this precise issue. They might not all see the sheer simplicity of it, still mired in divisive beliefs and ideologies, but I do believe that there is an acceleration occurring that is very clearly drawing a line in the sand and causing people to choose sides.

People have been afraid to choose sides, hovering somewhere in the middle, maintaining the status quo, but the reality is that all roads lead to prison. If you believe and wholeheartedly live by the idea that people should be free to live in peace, you're going to end up in a physical prison. If you believe and wholeheartedly live by the idea that you want to use threats and violence to force people to your will, you're going to end up in a spiritual and/or physical prison. If you tow the line and sit on the fence, you're already in a spiritual and physical prison.

The point is that every single one of us are born into bondage. I'm a slave and so are you. This truly is a prison planet.

The reason for the acceleration, why people are finally choosing sides, is because people are waking up to the fact that we are all slaves. It's a harsh reality to grasp, but once you accept it, then you truly become free to choose. Do you want to live in a physical prison, a spiritual prison, or both?

 

[Schwanke668]

Your only in a prison if you choose to remain blind.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Like shwanke said, it's only a prison if you define it.

I feel very free with the constraints on my will.

We have constraints on our freedom because we choose not to be. We go to the supermarket, the fast food, the barber shop to get our food we didn't grow, and to cut our hair with someone elses hands. We have built a society on money and gains, where life is a job.

If we went back to pure freedom we would be shackled by the environment, shackled to the field and the labor. We would need to wake up everyday with "how am I going to survive today?"

All life is a prison, unless you choose to transcend that thought. Become absorbed in the anti, and you will build your own walls.

Fulfill yourself with the small freedoms and you will see nothing it out of reach.

But, having said that;

"The chance at power within bounds turns all wheels" -Soap

 

[zezt]

I very MUCH feel the oppression!!! There is a saying that has stuck with me though I can't remember who quote came from: "You only realize how oppressed you were when it is over". I think this is so for many people who put up with oppressive sistuation because doing so is 'better the devil you know than the devil you dont'. I have experienced this in my life. Putting up with the WORST kind of work imaginable (though I am sure many on the '3r world' would disagree)--a sweat shop. And reason I did it cause I was fearful of ---what if? What if I stop this

Same for some women who get beaten by their partners. As bad as it can get they will keep going back because the fear the unknown worse, and also the sense of failure and humiliation this failed relationship brings.

I am overwhelmed the oppression, and know that the reason many people are blind to it--or pretend to be--is PROPAGANDA. propaganda makes you lick your chains. great authors have writ about this--Aldous Huxley, in Brave New World, and George Orwell, in !984. The former said that people would come to love their servitide, and latter than it would be blatantly in-the-face oppression. Well NOW these two dystopias meet! Many, particularly the 'middle class consumers' have had the Huxley version + meds, and now they is feeling the Orwell version as they suddely come to the realization that its not JUST Native peoples, and Black people, and Ethnics who are the enemy of this brutal State, but them too. They are feeling it now---things are dawning.

Frank Zappa: "The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

 

[Shamanomenon]

We're all in a prison, those who are blind just can't see the prison. Let me put it this way... You're free to believe whatever you want, but you have absolutely no freedom to manifest those beliefs. Say I believe in peace and freedom and in an attempt to manifest peace and freedom, I decide to stop contributing entirely to the system of force and violence. I think it's rather obvious that in order to achieve something, you must move entirely towards it and away from the negative. But do you think those who run the system of force and violence are going to let dissent go unpunished? No, you'll end up in prison. So, am I then only free to pursue freedom and peace, so long as it falls within the constructs and applicable laws of the system of force and violence? I am free to do whatever I want, as long as those in charge say that I am allowed to. Is that not prison? Am I not a slave? This is the very real physical prison of which I speak. Those who are blind can't see this prison, because they still believe that they are free and they unknowingly help to perpetuate the system of force and violence.

If we believe that people should be free to smoke marijuana and do psychedelics, we might very easily run afoul of the law. But have we harmed anyone? No... We just want to be free to live in peace. So why do we contribute to the system of force and violence? Why do we pay taxes, fines, license fees, etc? We're only helping to perpetuate the system of oppression. We do it because we are afraid of going to prison, yet we don't even consider the fact that we're already in prison, because we are not free to live in peace.

 

[ararat]

would you care to explain your idea of freedom to us? you say you can't get there because of people other than you, but we don't even know what you mean.

yes you live in a society which has laws against doing a great deal of drugs, but the same society provides you with food, shelter, healthcare (ideally, for me they do, yeeha socialism!), transportation, information and what have you.
this thing has two sides.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Zezt and shamonemem (sp) want a utopia. They want everything to be handed to them, and no consequences for any actions they take.

If you want that so bad, why are you still in the country you are in? There are still plenty of habitable places that have low population density and little governmental control. I'm guaranteeing both of you live in or near a large city. That is why you feel so oppressed. If you don't agree with it don't fucking go there.

I don't agree with capitalistic notions either, but I understand their necessity and I understand the consequences of their destruction. The systems you speak of are alot more complex then you think. It's not just people getting together at their giant meetings and saying "Hey government officials, how are we going to oppress people today?"

No, it's a long chain of events, a long layering of veils upon which people have found the "OK's" in society. There aren't that many evil people out there - just ones who don't care to question.

I do question, but i partake. I am happy with the level of opression versus easiness in which I have to live. Take away opression and I will have a lot harder time getting the wants and needs I desire efficiently and quickly (hence capitalism).

If you want freedom of everything YOU HAVE TO REALIZE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES. All society is in an equilibrium, you have oppression and freedom, and there will always be those that contest the equilibrium whether due to real reasons, or psychological emphasis. Feel free to rebel, feel free to do whatever you want, but you have to realize with contestation, there will be change, and change from oppression does not always mean easier. The freest man is that in the tent in the woods, but he won't live as long, and to say whether or not he is happier than those eating big macs and watching family guy is up to question.

It all depends on how much you want to analyze, and how happy you are with being happy. Ignorance is bliss, and it is an entirely moral question to ask whether one should lift another's veil.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

 

[zezt]

Yes. you love being oppressed, and dont care others are. OR you dont feel your oppressed and if others do they wrong cause you says so. That is your thing not mine. I dont believe in utopia--that is an illusion, and that is a cliche used by people against those who say they being oppressed. The reason that crap carries on is the other oppressed slaves who attack those who protest their enslavement and their childrens enslavement and people they love and say how they FEEL 'I feel oppressed', and people like you act as apologists for this oppression---this is the nature of the propaganda of it all. Nothin you have said has any substance on the matter, your just argueing for arguments sake---as usual. :roll:

Monsanto are evil fukers and are causing untold misery for people in India, etc. They are wanting to patent nature. THEIR oppression is mine. But your indifferent atttitude would patronize them and me and tell us we've never had it so good, and that is progress.

People deemed 'mentally ill' are being oppressed by the drug companies and bio psychiatry, but you would say that is how it must be.

Wars are being made where thousands of people are maimed, killed, and made to live lives of misery, and the land is contaminated with radiation and this is done for profit. But for you that is capitalism and we must be grateful.

I am going to listen to you? No. I have my own mind and dont need you to patronize me and tell me how things should be. But I also cannot be arsed to try and change someone who chooses to be blind like you do either.
Like I said, I dont even think you mean what you say, or you know what you mean---I just think you want to argue for the sake of it. How can someone experienced with entheogens feel like you feel is a mystery to me. I dont mean to offend, I just feel that. I cannot dig that attitude in straight people never mind those who have drunk the sacred juice.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I just read your last paragraph.

I feel the way I do because I can find it.

 

[itsscience]

This is the problem, you can find a million posts on a million forums saying that something is off or we are not free and I agree with you BUT that is not enough. It is easy to point out flaws but much much harder to offer solutions.

This is why I started the thread entitled "What is the Solution" not to point out that our current systems are wrong but to try and find a solution to the problem, try and find systems that can be implemented to end the oppression and give us back our freedom.

You have succeeded in pointing out the obvious but the real mission is to find the answer (and the answer I'm afraid is not 42).

 

[zezt]

This is the problem, you can find a million posts on a million forums saying that something is off or we are not free and I agree with you BUT that is not enough. It is easy to point out flaws but much much harder to offer solutions.

This is why I started the thread entitled "What is the Solution" not to point out that our current systems are wrong but to try and find a solution to the problem, try and find systems that can be implemented to end the oppression and give us back our freedom.

You have succeeded in pointing out the obvious but the real mission is to find the answer (and the answer I'm afraid is not 42).

I am of course doing that. The passion in my life is that. And that is why one of the things I try and encourage others to explore is PROPAGANDA, because this is a definate tactic of the 'managers' to control us without us being aware of what they are doing!
I will be happy to visit your thread

This is why I started the thread entitled "What is the Solution"

So errrr, where is it? I cant find it. Your 'thread' I mean.

 

[itsscience]

General Psychonautics - scroll down, immediately under the one entitled "Attention Whores" (which was not actually aimed at grabbing the attention of ladies of the night).

Unfortunately it got hijacked by side issues but if you've got something to add I'd love to hear it.

 

[Shamanomenon]

itsscience, I know it may seem obvious to a lot of people, but apparently not everyone sees the prison they are in.

And the solution is simple... Stop complying. Stop supporting the system of force and violence. Stop paying your taxes, stop paying your fines, stop paying for your rights in the form of government issued licenses. The solution is peaceful non-compliance. It's much better than the alternative.

I'm not living in a dreamland, hoping for some magical utopia, afraid to take personal responsibility for my actions or to pay the consequences as IJC implied. I just want to be free to live in peace. That is, after all, the ONLY purpose of societies and governments. We enter into a social contract in order to ensure that our rights are protected and that we are free to live in peace. The problem is, that we aren't free to live in peace. The ones who are supposed to be protecting our rights are the very ones who aggress upon us, steal from us, violate our rights and enslave us.

And what do I mean by free to live in peace?? Exactly what it says... As long as you are not harming someone else, you should be free to do what you want. Obviously, I am not saying that there should be no governments or laws, because those who do harm others should be punished. But we've gone from 1776 to 1984 and I refuse to bend over any longer.

This is a very real issue for me, because I have to go to a local Magistrate's office on Wednesday for failure to pay my fines. I'll be given the choice to either pay my fines or go to prison. What did I do? Absolutely nothing. That's my point. I didn't harm anyone. But the system has to generate revenue somehow, don't they? After all, most of the states are on the verge of bankruptcy, so this sort of thing is only going to get worse. Now is a time when most Americans (hell, most everyone in the world) is experiencing economic hardships, because their governments have failed them and sold them out to bankers and corporations. But instead of allowing people to live in peace and attempt to hold onto some semblance of stability, they've decided to fleece us of everything we have and turn us into criminals at the same time.

And I won't even get into what a complete joke the court system is... But, as the Judge told me... You don't have any rights and if you think you do, file an appeal. That is of course if you can afford it.

So, when Wednesday comes around, I'll be in court and soon after I'll likely be in prison, because I refuse to pay for my own enslavement. The way I look at it is that either way we are in prison. The only choice you have in the matter is if you will contribute to your own enslavement. And I will not comply.

 

[ophiuchus]

this ^ is ALL a distraction... **

everyone thinks that they want freedom. there's nothing wrong with this. but when one says, alright, well we need to do X to have freedom, they themselves begin pushing an agenda onto those who they drew a line in the sand against. YOU are drawing a line against people with money (a system of either debt/non-debt), so yeah, they are gonna fuck you harder than you can fuck them 10/10 times.

change must happen from the inside out. this is the only way. from the inside of the structure, the inside of us. (we already have change going on the outside, in order for this to work at all, we'll need BOTH inside AND out. they are not separate in reality, even though they are also not joined.. change on ALL fronts, a change of perspective, not more imaginary line drawing. this is the same thing we've been doing all along (since formal civilization), why would it work any differently now? (that's rhetorical)

do something, change (teach) yourself, in order to change others. teach(change) others, in order to change yourself.

if this is (in the willed spirit of)"positive", then the others will change too. it's not that they won't change without it :lol: , but you can create the nature of that change.

dont hold a negative frame of mind when dealing with the change, or YOU YOURSELF are promoting MORE negativity. this said, i am very sorry for anyone currently dealing with legal issues...

** so this is a distraction too ^.

 

[Schwanke668]

Changing the system is pointless. The system is there because it works as its designed. Maybe not intended but what its turned into is infact what it was meant to turn into.

A human body is designed to function as a host for human psyche/spirit/mind. As such a society structure is a host for the collective mind/spirit/psyche of the society it structures.

Sure you can have cancer cells. Cells that think they are in prison because they cant go around and do whatever they want to all the other cells. But then either those cancer cells will spread and kill the host or the host will do something about the cancer cells and have them irradiated.

The system of supply and demand of knowledge and theology is just as supply and demand of power or freedom. The markets will always find their balance. Right now the balance is the system as it is and no amount of single cell cancer changing is going change it. (Btw I'm not using the cancer in a negative way I am simply saying that is the effect a 'free radical anarchist' has on social systems which is basically what the 'we are all in chains' movement is all about.)

Its like Allusion said. If you want to change the system you have to change yourself from within and then allow your changes to change others naturally and gradually. Lead a life of changing yourself and people will notice. Hey! Their right! I need to change! Running around yelling 'we're all in chains! we're all in chains!' is just going to get the baby thrown out with the bath water as those that you would wish would change see you as threatening the very thing that you are trying to bring them into, freedom.

What did the Zen master say to the pizza maker?

"Make me one with everything."

What did the pizza maker say to the Zen master after he paid and ask for his change?

"Change comes from within."

 

[Shamanomenon]

I think the thing that both of you are missing entirely is that the system is not one of balance, it has literally ripped it's own insides out and is now bleeding profusely. How anyone could even claim that the current system we have is one of free markets and equilibrium in action just baffles my mind. Look around you for Christ's sake. Every aspect of the system has failed. Our government has no real, long-term solutions... As Zezt mentioned, they just feed us a bunch of propaganda, take all our money, and tell us everything will be fine. Things are FAR from fine. The truth is that NO ONE in this world really has any idea about anything, so when some group goes off on some obsessive, delusional rampage and tries to force me to join in, I'm going to be rather inclinded to object. This is the point entirely. The system is batshit insane. Those running it are psychopaths. If you were out in the streets and some murderous psychopath came upto you and said that you're either going to help him kill everyone on that block or he's going to kill you, what would you do?

It all comes down to whether you want to be complicit and an accomplice in someone else's insanity. Personally, I don't think we're ever going to help anyone if we do that.

You guys seem to act like you can stay neutral and try to reason with the psychopath... Good fucking luck with that one.

 

[Schwanke668]

It all comes down to whether you want to be complicit and an accomplice in someone else's insanity. Personally, I don't think we're ever going to help anyone if we do that.

You guys seem to act like you can stay neutral and try to reason with the psychopath... Good fucking luck with that one.

Personaly I see no problem with this. Its a pot shot statement thats been said a thousand times yet nothing has ever come from it. People are always screaming change change change about "the man" and "the man" wins every time. Nothing is going to be different this time using those methods. You have to find something new and your not offering anything new.

No offense personally, of course and seriously. Just sayin. Your not making any new waves, your just raising up old ones and they are a very small pebble in a really big ocean and no one is gong to notice your waves now anymore then they have in the past.

Again it all boils down to harmonics. The 'frequency' your speaking on is long since dead and gone. Those harmonics do nothing to change 'the man's harmonics. They act as a basic 'noise' maybe at the most. Kind of like a little clipping in an aplified song. Technically yeah its there but you cant hear it and no one really cares unless they go and edit the file and notice themselves.

But if you could truly find a resonance that made a difference FROM THE INSIDE then you might be able to change the system enough to see the progress you like.

Good luck WITHOUT that.

 

[itsscience]

Nothing is going to be different this time using those methods. You have to find something new and your not offering anything new.

I agree entirely.

I also agree with sham's statements that we do not have free markets and democracy is no longer representative of the majority of people, if it ever was.

Radical, out of the box thinking is necessary.

 

[Schwanke668]

Nothing is going to be different this time using those methods. You have to find something new and your not offering anything new.

I agree entirely.

I also agree with sham's statements that we do not have free markets and democracy is no longer representative of the majority of people, if it ever was.

Radical, out of the box thinking is necessary.

I'll agree with this. And I'll say that 'fight the power' and 'say no to the man' is not radical outside of the box thinking. I havent seen any real serious radical outside of the box thinking on this board to date.

No I havnt traveled the world and seen all their is to see but I've been doing bulletin board discussion groups about everything from politics and war to drugs to religion for almost 15 years and everything I've seen on this board so far I have seen somewhere else. The only thing that comes close in my mind to being 'truly' new is the search for within, from within. That is the deep searching in Taoism. I have seen discussions of Taoism before but I have never seen them as deeply as my own search has been and my own search has only been as deep as it is now starting in about the past two years. Before that I had never seen a true good representation of Taoism even though I had seen it discussed in a variety of environments.

I'm saying this badly but I am saying the discussion of Taoism on this board is the closest i have come to 'revolutionary thinking' and the irony is that the whole point of Taoism is inverse to the idea of a revolution.

Even if you treat Taoism as a religion (and I say in that there are both religion and faith versions and the faith version will work and the religious will not) its the search for within from within that will solve the worlds problems. Not trying to change things from the outside.

 

[itsscience]

And I'll say that 'fight the power' and 'say no to the man' is not radical outside of the box thinking. I havent seen any real serious radical outside of the box thinking on this board to date.

I'll agree with this.

The only thing that comes close in my mind to being 'truly' new is the search for within, from within. That is the deep searching in Taoism.

I won't agree with this because there is nothing new or even radical about the Tao.

its the search for within from within that will solve the worlds problems. Not trying to change things from the outside.

I don't agree with this. I agree that this will lead to personal enlightenment but it won't save the world. Those that are inclined to searching for within from within are a minority of the peoples who make up the global population. In my experience the majority of people are so entwined with the outside that they will never search the inside no matter how often and how many preach to them.