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  1. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    First off. That was a rhetorical question to God. Jesus knew why he was being forsaken. Because God in his perfect holyness would have to obliterate Jesus when he took on the sins of the world. As a result to keep from doing so he had to turn his back on him for a moment until he was cleansed...
  2. S

    The evil's of Christianity.

    Its general psychonautics to the degree that right now the entire conversation about whether or not I can talk about God so much on here is general psychonautics. Saying this isnt general psychonatics is just the same as saying "How you relate your non-psychedelic faith to your psychedelic...
  3. S

    Negativity, and what to do with it.

    Thread's goin all over the place but hey the Thread that can be known is not the true Thread. :D 1. Jesus (two comments to respond to). Anytime any person talks on a forum they immediately subject everyone else to their opinion. Even if its a question they are subjecting the other person to...
  4. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    I do have a tendancy to get the last word in but generally only when people insist on replying to what I have to say lol. For the most part if someone responds to someone else I leave em alone. And as I posted in the other thread I think this thread should die. Too many hot button topics all...
  5. S

    Negativity, and what to do with it.

    Peace! Yo! lol. Ok I think we're gettin somewhere lol. Part of 'the/my' problem is that "Christ" in terms of Jesus the Supreme Being permeates EVERYTHING I do. So like right then I went to write: "I am praying about when and where to respond in the threads that already exist." but then do I...
  6. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Well I think your better off not replying then replying so I will help with that by not responding atleast for the moment. Maybe if I read it again later I'll respond to parts of it or maybe you'll post your more favorite points in a different thread at some point but for now I am not responding...
  7. S

    The evil's of Christianity.

    Dont think I dont know the kind of evil that can happen from 'religious Christians', I have had my fair share. I lost a close friend because of the evils of my Church's decisions. He was the leader of a ministry that I was heavily involved in and a very close friend. He pulled his back sadly...
  8. S

    Negativity, and what to do with it.

    Amen. Litteraly. I freely admit the only reason I am not a total ass hole is because of God. He keeps me in check and often smacks me upside the head when I slip. He doesnt want that. He wants what you want. But I am human and he doesnt treat me like a robot so I make an ass of myself and I...
  9. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Ok. I'll bite for the moment. See if I can keep from gettin bitchy about it. Your claiming you want me to walk away from the conversation yet you keep responding to the conversation. There is an old internet saying 'Dont feed the trolls!". If you think I am 'trolling' and producing...
  10. S

    Things I Hate About Everyone.

    I did and I think it can go either way. Its a mildy ambiguis use of the english language. You could say the person is too damn lazy to get off their ass OR get up and change the channel remotely. Personally it would be MORE lazy to go change the channel manually then to get off your ass and...
  11. S

    Things I Hate About Everyone.

    People who are *NOT* willing. If your gunna spam atleast get the joke right lol. :D
  12. S

    2012 documentary

    Aparently somehow emotion has become either illegal or evil on this board and I am not entirely sure which one or how. WILL EVERYONE PLEASE LIGHTEN THE FUCK UP! Thank you. NOW there is nothing to see here. Move along. (Just not on a mobius rode cuz that would anoying and you could end up...
  13. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    I just ignored it. I dont read manifestos lol. Just the fact that someone had to put that on their or even someone else's name for something means its a waste of my time lol. Flame away lol. The basic trick for getting into internet debates is knowing when to care. Care too much and you get...
  14. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    I like my car because its: 10 years old. The locks dont work, have to hit em a few times to get them to click. The headlight is off center so one of them points at the ground. The dashboard lights for the AC and HEAt occasionally dont come on and I have to pound on the dashboard in just the...
  15. S

    MMAI dosage?

    Hehe. YOull probably see my reply in the trip reports section but I recommend posting in the synthetics sections (unless your headed there next? :D). Normally I wouldnt reply twice to the same post but hey. I just hit this really kickin waveform where out of the blue 4 hours later I had a blip...
  16. S

    MMAI dosage?

    Might wanna try in the synthetics sections. More likely to get people there that know it. Probably people that make it lol. :D
  17. S

    2012 documentary

    Seems to be a lot of that around here recently. Caught myself doing it and had to back away from two conversations now that were irritating me and possibly causing me to get 'upset' enough to 'lash out'. (Which is sad on so many levels when anyone does it for any reason.)
  18. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    I am doing that and I am doing that to keep from flaming you lol. Remember? I tried reading your posts all the way through and the emotion and lack of content gave me a headache. People said hey dont give up so easy so I tried again and it did it again. You can usually tell the flavor of...
  19. S

    Ecstasy shows no 'ominous' risk to brain

    Purty pills.... :)
  20. S

    I.O. Dro picture

    No no scientific name. In fact I tried to research it and couldnt find anything on the internet either though I'm not too grand at that kind of searching. The package there is all you see of the information besides some nice fluffy things that happen to you if you smoke it hehe. Its kind of...
  21. S

    2012 documentary

    I was talkin to a friend of mine over christmas and she was saying there were 3 or four different unrelated cultures that have their callendars end around the time of 2012. Each of them had no way at the time of reaching the other cultures and sharing their calenders. Her husband who is...
  22. S

    I.O. Dro picture

    Actually it does for me. Its not super like mind blowing kind bud high but its nice. I just smoked some before I got on here. Its kind of giddy at first, I was makin stupid jokes and bein funny for no reason. It also had some mild psychedelic effects like things 'feelin wierd' the way you would...
  23. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Your doing that thing again lol. No clue what your saying or why your saying it yet your convinced you know what I am thinking lol. Just lettin ya know. I can tell when your getting into that mode so about 2 or three sentances into it I go "Yes dear, have a nice cup of tea and relax." to ya and...
  24. S

    cool, meditation!

    No. Not really. I am in a near perminent psychedelic state of one degree or another now a days. Its not all mind blowing but it can be but most of the time its a low level kind of 'awareness' of my surroundings thats a lot different then my natural state was before I started doing drugs in...
  25. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Well I agree that the vast majority does have appathy but I also believe that anyone and everyone that is presented with a better idea, if the idea is good enough and better enough will atleast CONSIDER the change, even if only for a moment. But sometimes that moment is all someone needs to make...
  26. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    I'm backin out of this conversation. Its going no where, atleast for me. Ive spent 15 years on the internet and one thing you learn is when people are just either screaming back and forth at each other or hell bent in their own beliefs with no room for change. I can tell from what I have read in...
  27. S

    First salvia 5x on new bong. Interesting.

    DEFINITELY different then the loose leaf I smoke but I can see the relationship. I first smoked about 1 to 2 small bowls of loose leaf to get used to the bong as it was brand new and I didnt want to choke up on my first 5x and ruin it. I got used to it and did the 5x a small bowl full and it...
  28. S

    cool, meditation!

    Cool, I guess? :P Meditation can be very uplifting or very scary depending on where whatever your using to guide your meditation takes you. Ive had everything from relaxing peace that hovered just above sleep for a long duration to 'omg I cant believe im having this experience' moments of pure...
  29. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Huh? Which am I what? :P I'm me. Thats all I try to be.
  30. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Actually *THATS* bullshit. You just invalidated the rest of your post by making a gross generalization sweeping statement about other people's personal choices thereby proving your ignorance of the conversation.
  31. S

    How to smoke?

    For the record I did in the general forum since it would apply to probably all plant material. It worked in the sense that it made the leaves softer and spongier and not brittle. Even after 'over doing it' compared to what I thought they meant they werent moldy or anything, just very soft...
  32. S

    Ego - Soul - God ???

    Your all just figments of my imaganitaiton. *Pushes his beliefs on all the figments of his imagination and watches them fight back and overthrow the government and make the internet free and...* Oh wait. :D
  33. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Yeah pretty much. Gladly we finally agree to agree to disagree hehe. :D
  34. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    No need for it maybe but I like it. :D And as for not being free. Technology costs money. Cant exactly fabricate fiber optics out of the back of a van in the middle of the woods lol. Oh wait. Cant have a van cuz it costs money to do the parts/refine the gas/etc. People just dont realize what...
  35. S

    Ego - Soul - God ???

    I am here. You are there. I am me and you are you.
  36. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Maybe we are having english language issues too. I didnt say you discovered anything FOR anyone else I said you discovered stuff already discovered BY someone else. That is to say that what you are discovering has already been discovered and discussed countless times. As for inflated most...
  37. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Sounds great but thats going to cut you off from a predominant part of society. Some can probably handle that and more power to them but it also means giving up things like the internet which most people take for granted so much that they forget that the existence of 'The Man' is what makes the...
  38. S

    The Beginning of a Dream

    Ahh but we are not trapped in Duality. There is a Singularity and then there is everything else. You could theoretically say that the 'Duality' is the 'Singularity and the Non-Singularity' but that is not a mirror duality where either way you look is the same. One is up and the other is down and...
  39. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    I think part of the problem is your developing all these 'wonderful new ideas' for yourself when in fact they have all been thought before you just havnt come across them. By the fact that you dont know what 'The Man' is proves it. Everything youve been saying has been discussed 1000s of times...
  40. S

    Hello

    What drives me nuts is all these fun people and I dont know a darn soul in my area that I would trust spending time with in this type of environment. Access to drugs left and right and all the shady seedy people that normallly go with them. Just no one with a serious psychological desire to...
  41. S

    Ego - Soul - God ???

    Lol I have no clue where I responded to that. Dont even remember what I wrote. I have like no short term memory due to the side affects of one of my psyche meds which I am hoping is the first one I can go down on. Like for example I setup a sorting table for the mtg cards I am going to sell in...
  42. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Funny enough. Thats biblical. The Jews were being oppressed by the romans and they asked Jesus if they should pay taxes and he asked what was on the roman coin and they said "Ceasar" at which point he said give Ceasar what is ceasars. Why the hell cant I spell Ceaser :P Anyway. Point being is...
  43. S

    Rehydrating old plant material for a smoother smoke.

    As a final note I checked the rest of the sample just now and found it was actually getting slightly damp which I figured was a good time to stop so I put the rest of the batch in a 3x4 ziplock for use later. See how it goes in like a week after I do my 5x. So aparently it atleast rehydrates it...
  44. S

    Rehydrating old plant material for a smoother smoke.

    Oh and for added experiment I took what I would call about a medium to small bowl full of the salvia and put it in a 2x2 ziplock for attempting to smoke later. I am not smoking anything until after I do my first 5x as I want my system clean but the bag is air tight (tested by trying to squeeze...
  45. S

    Rehydrating old plant material for a smoother smoke.

    Well I half forgot about it and ended up going for 12 hours. Considering it was an experimenet with surplus not really a problem. It seems to have worked though atleast in terms of rehydrating. The salvia is very much no longer brittle. It bends now and does not crumble the way that it did...
  46. S

    Prepin for my first 5x experience. Need advice.

    Ok. I have only ever played with regular loose leaf (not the notebook :D) and only ever got trippy off of it. Turned out the hits were always too harsh from being hot hard smoke to really get a serious amount. LOOOONNNGGGG time ago I got a nice zinger of an experience and that was when my...
  47. S

    Picture 1oz loose, 1g 5x, 1g 20x

    Picture of my latest purchase. I need to get better at taking close up stills with this camera. Its a droidx so it doesnt have a mounting bracket or anything to attach to a tripod. Left is the 1oz loose, top right is the 1g of 5x and bottom right is the 1g of 20x. They are actually labeled on...
  48. S

    I.O. Dro picture

    I.O. Dro seems to be from "international oddities" as googling what is I.O. Dro turns up an old ad of theirs and a few websites list io dro as their product. I guess IO stands for International Oddities. Wow I'm a smart druggie aint I? :D Here's a picture of the last pack i got from my favorite...
  49. S

    Rehydrating old plant material for a smoother smoke.

    Came across a website that suggested putting in a sliver of lemon peel in with your dried out weedstash to rejuvinate it and make it less harsh to smoke. I dont smoke weed only cuz its illegal where I am but I do smoke salvia divinorum and I have a ready supply of harsh smoking dried out leaves...
  50. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    See all I see are propaganda statements: "Democracy is no longer" "most of the actions are just for show" "benefits for the few very priviledged elite" and "conglomerates" "all money is blood money" et c etc.. None of that is real or true but if I say that your just going to say the exact same...
  51. S

    Toy australian shepherd growth chart 8

    Now WHAT THE FUCK is the point of that? lol. Its not even a nice sideways waveform or something lol.
  52. S

    Reintroduction After Incarceration

    I'm rather impressed and someone jealous of your zeal. For a variety of reasons that I am always trying to improve I generally have no personal motivation for anything that isnt 100% fun. What got me into trouble in the first place in college and Ive been battling it ever since. I actually went...
  53. S

    A whole new world...

    Magic the gathering has a new expansion caleld Mirrodin Besieged and I am sure it has a bunch of Mind Control cards of some kind so maybe thats what you mean. :D I'm being stupid. Hello everyone who is new who reads this. I really wish I had smoked something. Then I would have an excuse for...
  54. S

    Ego - Soul - God ???

    Actually lol he deleted what he wrote in two places so I dont remember what it was I replied to what he wrote cuz I dont remember what he wrote lol. I think you may even have replied to what he wrote in the other thread hehe. :D Cosmic flow of the universe type thing. What will be will be. The...
  55. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    I'll try again or something. I'll play it by ear but I kinda feel with you I'm like bach or beatoven or whoever it was that was deaf lol. Play it by ears that cant hear kind of thing lol. Hopefully I'll be as 'lucky' as he was to figure out what your saying lol. :D
  56. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    ????? LOL. No clue what your gettin at. :D
  57. S

    How to smoke?

    Hadnt thought to but I will when I get to it. I just got an order of a new oz of leaves and a 1g of 5x and a 1g of 20x so I'll be trying that first. I tend to have lemons around so its not the lemon peels so much as finding the right container. I am a perfectionist so my ideal solution would...
  58. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Iersuko its very draining trying to read your posts because they are 90% propaganda drug war hype in favor of drugs. They are mostly ill founded/ungrounded and try to capatalize on emotions more then logic and reason yet trying to pass themselves off as reason. You can believe whatever you like...
  59. S

    the stench..

    Google your store name (Is ASDA the whole name? Or abreviation) and air purifier and it might give some results on what people who use them for .. ahem .. normal things lol get at that store.
  60. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    well thats kind of my point. its not the drugs that do it. its the mind behind it. Its like an old somewhat offensive joke my dad used to say before he got saved: "Remember! You can lead a Whore-To-Culture but you cant make her think!" (Incase its gone out of style, a joke on you can lead a...
  61. S

    the stench..

    Too bad you cant light the fumes like you light farts. Bottle the air and sell it as sniffing gas or something hehe. :)
  62. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    This is one of those gross generalization statements that pretty much irradicates any desire to read the rest of your post. Drugs do anything but make you more intelligent. Intelligence has nothing to do with it. They make you see the world differently and to greater or lesser degrees and in...
  63. S

    Do you ever get tired of "drugs"?

    I'm almost inclined to believe I occasionally take them to close them lol. Kind of like if you leave the heat on all year round you tend to burn up in the summer lol. I actually just had a depressing experience with the amanita muscaria. Took what erowid called a common dose, 7g and all I did...
  64. S

    7g of Amanita Muscaria

    Did 7g of Amanita Muscaria this morning. Sadly enough it was a waste. :( Did 4 then an hour later 3 cuz it didnt feel too strong. Spent the entire day sleeping except about once every 1 to 2 hours getting up and going to the bathroom and being clumsy. Knocked a few things over. Didnt seem to...
  65. S

    Amanita Muscaria

    Just did 4g of the Washington State A+ from a particular website. Erowid says 5 to 10 is common but since I am sensative figured I would start low and see how I feel in an hour as per suggested by ICJ. I have another 3g set aside if I want to 'up the voltage' hehe. I'll see how I feel in an...
  66. S

    Do you ever get tired of "drugs"?

    I had this happen with cigarettes. I just got bored of them and then quite all together lol. Switched to those electric ones to save money and the last ones I bought are sittin next to me and havnt been touched in a month. I kept wantin to take them with me to driving to have a couple of hits...
  67. S

    New Amanita Muscarias Photo A+ Grade

    My current plan is to start with the upper left one and break it into pieces and weigh it and combine that with some research on erowid to see if i can gauge a good place to start. I have to admit I've been nibbling on that one hehe. Taking chunks twice the size of my fingernail. Sometimes...
  68. S

    Life.

    Mine was being in this haunted house with all these nasty things going on but the worst part of it ws being in this room with this dog that had no skin and I could see all this musctle and tissue and bone. He was strung up into the ceiling by his flesh and was running in place. There was a...
  69. S

    Your thought on two statements and 2 questions...

    As a piece of unsolicted advice hehe and a word of caution. Be careful that your not making gross generalizations based on personal beliefs and then trying to attribute them to everyone. I only say this cuz thats what I am getting from your posts now and what I used to do in other areas of my...
  70. S

    Life.

    I dont believe there are such things as past lives or are any other lives forward beyond eternity. But I have no 'proof' that I can share with anyone except 'experience' and 'knowledge'. For example I 'know' that my spirit is going on some 10k+ years old. But I also know that my spirit did not...
  71. S

    re-introduction

    We're all special because we all live in the yellow submarine!
  72. S

    A whole new world...

    Didnt know I was missing. :D Just kidding. Welcome!
  73. S

    New Amanita Muscarias Photo A+ Grade

    I think the one in the lower left is 'cute' hehe. The rest look like they're all hard core and shit but that ones like 'dainty' or something lol. :D Question now is how much to take on my first run having not done anything similar in about 12 years. It was recommended by IJC to take half a cap...
  74. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Actually no I have no problem with it. I used to hangout with homeless people all the time in college. They are just like every body else just different life situation. You dont want to go and wear fancy clothing and take an expensive cellphone but thats considered an attractive nuisance and...
  75. S

    Kratom

    When I do kratom I just do .2g of 10x powder mixed with water. I'm not looking for a high high though. It just helps me feel spacy and lets me fall asleep with very nice dreamy sensation. Granted it doesnt taste great but it reminds me of a strong nutmeg though I cant place why it tastes...
  76. S

    Your thought on two statements and 2 questions...

    I do it to feel normal. Its more of the case that my normal has become a tripping state of sorts and that the non-normal is usually anxiety or depresion as opposed to 'generic' as it used to be years ago. Isnt true all the time. Sometimes I have 'generic' where I am just doing whatever. But...
  77. S

    Life.

    Neither was I. I was saying that once a spirit has gotten used to one body cannot handle being in any other bodies new or otherwise. The spirit is already used to being a 40 year old male when it dies. If it were 'forced' to go into a 'new born baby' body it would go psychotic from being forced...
  78. S

    "I", "The Mind".

    Chases Iersuko around with a sloppy wet noodle and squooshes them over the head with it tickling their ear. I see you!!! Poke! :)
  79. S

    Ego - Soul - God ???

    Replied to this in the other thread. Dont really wanna reply in both places so I guess pick one hehe. :D
  80. S

    big business, big money, corporate machine, mass media etc..

    Ahh but see thats the typical cliche response to people who dont like it. All I ever see is the same excuses over and over again usually (dont know your situation) by people who cant play or have failed at playing it. Like I said somewhere. I had a friend in college who was all into the whole...
  81. S

    Your thought on two statements and 2 questions...

    I dont do drugs for 'fun' though they are fun. I do them to stabilize my life. I find that my relationship to God is so psychedelic that sometimes at night I cant sleep because I get anxoius or depressed just about normal stuff but because everything is so intense for me all the time the...
  82. S

    Life.

    I would say yes except for two things. I see the spirit as more then just consciousness. So our spirit transfers into the next life not just our consciousness. There is only one next life. When the body looses its physical self and the spirit is transformed into light it does not transform...
  83. S

    New Amanita Muscarias Photo A+ Grade

    This is my new shipment hehe. Mmmmm..... Original large scale: http://schwanke.org/RandomFiles/Psyched ... nLegal.jpg
  84. S

    bots....where the mods at?

    You know admin, I saw your photo of the astronaut and laughed. Sometimes kinda feel like most admins are on the moon. :D
  85. S

    SQUIIIISSHHHHH..... (.21g of Amanita plus random smokeables)

    So both those times went well. Very enjoyable. Think it was between the first and second dosing that I fell asleep and had this WICKED ASS dream lol. I dreamed that I was trippin so hard I was havin this full on halucination and that I was going to need hospitalized but then I stopped myself...
  86. S

    bots....where the mods at?

    Well theoretically you could read the bots kind of like tea leaves with their psuedo randomness.. Like what the heck does fish have to do with selling viagra or whatever? Perssonally im too trippy right now to care lol. Atleast the russian language looks cool. Kind of funny how the language...
  87. S

    bots....where the mods at?

    The irony is they are 100% propaganda and we're carryin on a conversation about psychedelics seeing through propaganda. Wierd eh? Syncronicity? :D
  88. S

    Belated Introduction

    Ohh haha did I? I never have a clue what I wrote before until I read it again. I have vague recollections and collected themes but generally speaking specific concepts are lost in the general conversation. Plus I make lots of random side comments that I figure no one pays attention to. This...
  89. S

    How to smoke?

    I bumped into a random website on weed smoking about how people use a small slice of lemon peel to rehydrate portions of their stash that have dried out and are too hard to smoke. I wonder if maybe that will help me with my problem of my hits being entirely too painful to get a serious hit out...
  90. S

    Something is off. -- Now its a convergence.

    Actually yes I am. I realized in prayer last night that those of us who are searching for 'The Way' walked away from the path to finding the way two or three posts ago and we are not encouraging those that are not searching for the way to search for the way by continuing it. There comes a point...
  91. S

    can psychedelics help us see through propaganda?

    Ironicly enough I didnt even notice. I had to look at what you typed to see what you meant. Might be from the fact that I taught myself to speed read at a very young age and speed reading is all about using general graphical cues as opposed to individual letters. So the difference of an i or I...
  92. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    I think you are misunderstanding me then. I see the search for within from within as being a stones throw ripple in a pond. As we search for within from within what we learn resonates out of ourselves out into the rest of reality in some form or another. We are having these conversations for...
  93. S

    SQUIIIISSHHHHH..... (.21g of Amanita plus random smokeables)

    Added another .29 to make it an even .5mg Amanitas oral. Last few hours were fun. :D Nothin severe but a lot of good introspection and self defining moments. Gained a little more self awareness I think and a little more awareness of God and Tao and how he uses it in my life. To ebb and flow...
  94. S

    Reading these forums lol...

    Hehe. We could have a whole conversation about the definition of 'mind altering experience' right now. At what point does the mind NOT get altered at any given moment throughout the day or even night. We are constantly changing and constantly flowing and therefor constantly being altered. You...
  95. S

    can psychedelics help us see through propaganda?

    Ahh. So then. We take the conversation in this direction: "Its The-Man that is saying that illness is a bad word to use. Every time we allow 'The-Man' to use the word illness negatively we are giving the The-Man more power over our language." I use words wrong all the time, half the time on...
  96. S

    All Roads Lead To Prison

    Thank I missed something. I was trying to say that Taoism is a state of mind that fluctuates within any system. Apply pure Taoism to any situation and you will find the perfect counterpart to the part of that situation that brings that situation back into balance. So if you can reach...
  97. S

    SQUIIIISSHHHHH..... (.21g of Amanita plus random smokeables)

    Just ate .21g of Amanita Muscaria. Before that smoked I dunno a minimum to moderate amount of Amanita Muscaria as well as Panama Bud and Salvia. I always pray about what I put in my body even if I screw up and take the wrong thing but I stopped and focused really hard this time taking a few...
  98. S

    can psychedelics help us see through propaganda?

    Its actually rather well known that the predominant number of popular artists in the last few centuries or more were mentally ill. Its also fairly well known that 99% of the prophets of the old testament and several of the apostles of the new testament were mentally ill. Mentall illness is not...
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