Dissociatives as a class of psychedelics

[mutant]

Hi all!

I haven't tested dxm or ketamine.

Would someone say they resemble in some way salvia dissociation, or amanita, also two psychoactive plant/fungi that are categorised as dissociatives as far a effects go?

Any thoughts? Note that I don't really like naive comparisons like this, but, believe me, I am very serious and trying to get something out of the question.

Let's say, I'm.... fishing

Psychophenomenology of dissociatives anyone?

 

[BrainEater]

hey!!

yeah i have tried DXM from coughing pills ... which aren't on the market anymore ... i found the effects quite interesting... it seemed like everything seemed to be slowed down around you. .. and hearing music is really cool as a connection to the music is easier felt... .and i felt sooooooooo relaxed MAN!! insane!!! also you lose a bit of your coordination and feel maybe a bit cloudy in ya head,.. but i suppose it deppends really on dosage... i think i took like 8 mg or somethin...you can read best dosing on erowid... also i wouldn't reccommend taking the shit more often than once in a month or you end up REALLY fucked i guarantee you!

PEACE!

 

[mutant]

interesting....

but, you didn't tell me: have you had salvia experiences? Would you make some connection , similarity driven or other?

I am not really interested in, say, dxm.. ketamine is also controled everywhere I think. It seems more interesting...

I am tryin to delve deeper. These are only initialisation question...

Peace

 

[BrainEater]

hey!!

sry mate! didn't read your post with alot of attention obviously! :mrgreen:
yeah i have experience with salvia.... i can tell you it's very fucked up, but you can have very beautiful, insightful experiences... but man it's so fucking intense, i encourage you to have respect for this plant and for its spirit! it will fucking overwhelm you.

i can tell you... after having smoked it some times the effects get even stronger and smoking extract is somethin you should've thought about before and be sure about it. be sure about your feeling in yourself too. there can come stuff up that was hidden beneath loads of other shit. and do not be afraid or try not to panik, because sometimes the feeling that can come up (quite fast) can get really intense and creepy sometimes... but don't be scared of it, it can be struggles in yourself out of your control, but no need to panik.

the last time i smoked salvia 10x extract it was really strange... i felt like i was being glued on a picture or well somehow i was like really being fixed on somehow something like a picture or image and couldn't get out and thought i had to stay there forever. but this strange impression somehow faded quite fast and it became a really nice warm feeling and i had to laugh loud!!
so... you've been warned!

peace!

 

[mutant]

Huhh, sorry mate, it seem you didn't get it right this time either

I have had several experiences with salvia, they didn't scare me, intensity didn't scare me either [surprised, yes! ] . The clasic psychdelics can become quite unnerving sometimes for me, though, especially with bad seetings, which I nowadays always take care.

The question is would you compare DXM to Salvia, since it seems you have experimented with both. ????

My dissociative experiences are Salvia and Amanitas. I felt somewhat a similarity to salvia in my last amanita experience. Would you say the same for dxm and salvia?

 

[BrainEater]

Hehe!! seems like i was being too stoned to understand your post! lol

well anyways i 'm not sure but i think the effects of salvia and DXM have not been too similar for me at least... maybe it's different at higher dosages of DXM, because many people have out of body experiences then... i didn't take a so great dose of DXM, but the effects were still quite strong!! salvia was far more mind blowing and intense and kind of mystical, but as i said didn't take so much DXM!

peace!!

 

[Soulcatcher]

I tried both ketamine and salvia and find them in no way comparable.
Maybe it is because i didnt have a genuine salvia experience, but it felt like mindfuck and a bit freaky.
Ketamine on the other hand is quite stimulating on lower doses, but becomes relaxing and intoxicating if you take more. I didnt go trough the K-hole but i did have some weird 'dreams' and an out of body experience. (I took it nasal).

I'd say they are totally different in a lot of aspects.

 

[Soulcatcher]

What i want to add is that i tried salvia only a few times but didn't like it. But I also had some weird dreams and 'flashbacks' after i did that. So maybe it opens something in the brain which is more easily accessed after the experience.. That might lead to a similar feeling when taking other drugs. Maybe that can help you.

 

[mutant]

Thank you both!

Soulcatcher, very interesting...

Of course to to able to really tell if they're any similar we should have a person having tested the whole range of effects. I have had an intense salvia XP, but not a bid dose of amanitas so far. And let me tell you, low and low/mid doses of amanita are not so dissociative as well....

So what was it that you didn't like off salvia? Scary? Harsh? Pain?

Let me tell you I don't really believe in the 'genuine' experienece, that is I don't believe that something HAS TO BE SEEN OR FELT , hence the word psychedelic. It has to do with what you are...

Would you go for a higher ketamine dose?

 

[Brugmansia]

Would you go for a higher ketamine dose?

Yes.

 

[flashmasterfong]

I extracted 400mg of dxm from sucrets, very interesting experience. I was wearing headphones with some trance music playing and every time I closed my eyes the music would slowly fade away. Thoughts were more interesting, and colors were a bit different, sometimes I would see a flash of green in a yellow lights, things were kinda shaky as well. Good experience, I liked it

 

[Psychoid]

Would you go for a higher ketamine dose?

Yes.

+1

In my humble opinion the only interest of this drug is the k-hole

 

[Soulcatcher]

Yes i would try a higher ketamine dose. I think i took about 170mg nasal on the experience i described. Although it is fun to use it in lower doses, i guess the higher ones are even more worth it.

About the salvia, i'm not sure what i don't like. It's partly the sudden onset. For me it's really a KABOOM and i'm not there anymore. I'm glued to whatever im sitting/lying on and im a legocube watching the world as a newborn. Then slowly i try to act normal again and remember that i am in fact a human being, and bit by bit i come back. I think my unconscious just won't let me go but keeps me at the frontiers. Not really something i can control because at the moment i don't even know what/who i am. The things i see are the first ones i can relate to, this results in thinking i am the house, or the bed or whatever.
I usually need to aclimatise to the trip, with almost everything. Salvia is just too short and confusing too get a grip on.

Note: i have only tried salvia 5x extract, about 4 times. I have tried ketamine also 4 times, the last experience being the deepest.

 

[mutant]

About the salvia, i'm not sure what i don't like. It's partly the sudden onset. For me it's really a KABOOM and i'm not there anymore. I'm glued to whatever im sitting/lying on and im a legocube watching the world as a newborn. Then slowly i try to act normal again and remember that i am in fact a human being, and bit by bit i come back. I think my unconscious just won't let me go but keeps me at the frontiers. Not really something i can control because at the moment i don't even know what/who i am. The things i see are the first ones i can relate to, this results in thinking i am the house, or the bed or whatever.
I usually need to aclimatise to the trip, with almost everything. Salvia is just too short and confusing too get a grip on.

Sometimes I am mad at the community's stereotypes and all. What you describe is a pretty healthy's individual response to salvia space, in big doses. You don't NEEd to like it, you don't NEEd to see things to tell you friends or visions, you CANNOT understand it so easily. Some people stick to low doses with plain leaf or a couple of puffs of x5 . They don;t quite do it for plain 'pleasure' though.... I had an intense experience on x5. If you want to understand the space more , smoke LESS. maybe just plain leaf... And remember - you don't have to like it!

 

[tryptonaut]

About the salvia, i'm not sure what i don't like. It's partly the sudden onset. For me it's really a KABOOM and i'm not there anymore. I'm glued to whatever im sitting/lying on and im a legocube watching the world as a newborn. Then slowly i try to act normal again and remember that i am in fact a human being, and bit by bit i come back. I think my unconscious just won't let me go but keeps me at the frontiers. Not really something i can control because at the moment i don't even know what/who i am. The things i see are the first ones i can relate to, this results in thinking i am the house, or the bed or whatever.
I usually need to aclimatise to the trip, with almost everything. Salvia is just too short and confusing too get a grip on.

Sometimes I am mad at the community's stereotypes and all. What you describe is a pretty healthy's individual response to salvia space, in big doses. You don't NEEd to like it, you don't NEEd to see things to tell you friends or visions, you CANNOT understand it so easily. Some people stick to low doses with plain leaf or a couple of puffs of x5 . They don;t quite do it for plain 'pleasure' though.... I had an intense experience on x5. If you want to understand the space more , smoke LESS. maybe just plain leaf... And remember - you don't have to like it!

Well, I have to say I don't like Salvia much - but let me explain it to you, it's not a stereotype.
I smoked 5x a few times, first from a pipe, then also from a bong. I also tried it on a shroom trip two times - these were actually the only really interesting experiences for me, because while tripping on shrooms, less salvia had a greater effect and it somehow correlated with the shroom space. One of these times my room felt like the train station from the harry potter movies. It was very interesting because it still looked like my room (a little different maybe), but the feeling that it was this fictional train station was overwhelmingly real. Totally absurd, but really interesting

My only real break-through salvia experience without other drugs was weird (I was floating in a world of geometrical shapes. Geometrical shapes were all there was in this universe (blocks and gears mainly) and there were so many of them I couldn't see anything else. I tried to move them away (and tipped over the bong in that process...). The whole experience was kind of annyoing, or even "boring" (best I can come up with to describe the kind of non-satisfactory feeling I got). It didn't seem to tell me anything.

But well, if it was only that, I'd explore further, BUT (big, big BUT): After I come down from a Salvia trip I always feel hollow, empty, like any joy has been sucked out of me. I literally felt like killing myself after my breakthrough experience - not because the trip had been bad, but because everything felt pointless and empty.
You must know I have had a more or less serious depression a few years ago, and I am glad I got over it. When I take shrooms I feel better, they actually helped me a lot in the year after I stopped taking fluoxetine. A shroom trip makes me stronger, a salvia trip - as interesting as it might be - sucks the life out of me.

 

[mutant]

Interesting...

Salvia divinorum has many anecdotal reports on effects on depression. It seems that Psilocybes do it for you, while Salvia doesn't. I tend to believe that the classic psychedelics offer more psychoanalytical and emotional insight [often a benefit] , an effect that is enhanced by the strong emotions and awe that accompany such substances.

It's also true that the salvia experience isn't usually described as pleasant or recreational by most salvianauts.

We were talking on this with a friend today again, the concept of smoking Salvia at the exctatic moment of some psilocybin trip.

===

Thank you for your interesting answers...

 

[st.bot.32]

Interesting, i had my first sort of unpleasant reaction to salvia the last time I used it, I tried the quid and boosted it with smoking leaves. But it just seemed nothing was happening. I couldn't get into salvia land. And when i did get some CEV swirling around, they just looked.. ugly to me. Like crass, gaudy 3d neon signs or something.

Not saying I won't try salvia again.. I'm going to be doing the psilocybe sometime soon and that would be interesting to experiment with, although the mushrooms will probably be already more than enough as I haven't had many opportunities to try them yet =)

Off topic, notice how falling into salvia-land when you finally figure out how to do it without a heroic dose... is almost similar to letting yourself go into low level doses of shrooms or acid? Sort of like deep relaxation.. the mind wanders a bit.. then something clicks..

 

[sval]

dissociatives and psychedelics aren't very comparable... but they've got some common points, yeah but dissociatives produces a kind of head numbness instead of the effect of psychedelics which are "open-mind", that's because of the opioid structure of dissociatives.

they're both interesting, I more used dissociatives like DXM or Ket' (my fav) and the effect is very good to listening music, it produce a easy introducing feeling inside, and a weird feeling like orgasm !!! so... very pleasant visuals too. there's also a very cool thing: If you watch movies for example, when you'll turn it off, you'll be ever in the atmosphere of the movie ! it could be pleasant or if you watch a gore movie or snuff... WARG! Every single things of your location, your 'universe, will influence your trip in your deepest emotions.

be carefull, opioid includes a dependance...
I say psychedelics are best for visuals, entheogenism and divine experiences, and dissociatives for introspective and euphoric experience...

 

[mutant]

Interesting! Thanks for all the answers and comments, I really appreciate!

st.bot.32>> salvia on top of a psychedelic experience is said to be totally overwhelming! take care or just skip the salvia part. I have yet to bioessay psylocybin

Off topic, notice how falling into salvia-land when you finally figure out how to do it without a heroic dose... is almost similar to letting yourself go into low level doses of shrooms or acid? Sort of like deep relaxation.. the mind wanders a bit.. then something clicks..

this might have to do with familiarity with the space / method of navigation, as well as the so called reverse tolerance. But anyway, very interesting note!

I say psychedelics are best for visuals, entheogenism and divine experiences, and dissociatives for introspective and euphoric experience...

I have found on a single [so far] experience that LSAs from seeds like HBWR have a lot of potential in introspection. A lot more relaxed than more stimulant or more visual psychedelics, it might just do it for some, I feel.

sval, I think the most appropriate term for dissociatives would be sedative / anaesthesiac instead of 'opioid' , but you do have in fact a point. Still K-opioid receptor [salvia divinorum / salvinorin] isn't supposed to build dependency.