DMT creatures, real or not?

[Psyolopher]

I havent tried DMT myself, even though I want to....
But most people claim them to be real.....the creatures they meet....

Do you think so?

Me as an observer from the outside, a person who never has had the experience....im really, not sure.....
So I wonder what you people think.

 

[endlessness]

well it depends what you call 'real' also. maybe as william blake said, everything possible to be imagined is an aspect of truth

these discussions always bump into the question of 'is our consciousness created by the brain, or does the brain serve to 'tune it down' and give consciousness a focus, sort of like a tv or radio do to the signals that exist independent of the receiving station.

SWIM has had several encounters with the dmt beings, and each time it 'feels' very real. but in the end, it doesnt matter what we call it, real, not real.. The mystery of the experience remains

 

[Brugmansia]

The discussion about what makes sensed information real would be more accurate.

If I'm connected with external beings out of my sensory. It'd implicate a path that does not correspond to who Am I and what I know.

It is almost unfathomable to determine that they all appear out of merely my own consciousness. But I have to say they are not real because I wake up after.

But as long as I'm inside, they are real because I have amnesia of this world, my physical presence and memory.

Let's just say that sober life is the dream which we accept as our OS, on which we can run different software.

 

[Arcticpheonix]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy" - William Shakespeare

Just because we can't measure or quantify it, does not mean that it is any less real.

 

[GOD]

"But most people claim them to be real"

Who says most people ? Who did the survay of all the people who have smoked DMT ? Please show it us .

"the creatures they meet"

The hallucinations that they have .

"Just because we can't measure or quantify it, does not mean that it is any less real."

Thats a pretty stupid argument . One usualy used by people who have no facts and still wont give up believing in father christmas and the tooth fairy .

 

[Hyperion1980]

I've never done DMT but read the book "DMT, the spirit Molecule" from Strassman. In this books many people describe the experience as "more real then real"

Quote from Terence McKenna

I took this stuff to Tibetans, to the Amazon. I gave it to Tibetans, they said "this is the lesser lights, the lesser lights of the Bardo. You cannot go further into the Bardo and return. This takes you as far as you can go." When I gave it to shamans in the Amazon, they said "It's strong - but this is, these are the ancestors. These are the spirits that we work with. These are ancestor souls. We know this place."

 

[Mr.Smith]

/

 

[restin]

the thought crossed my mind once while on 850 psilocybe semilanceata the entities may be some form of genetic memory, dna or rna memory perhaps, given visual form by my imagination, psyche

This is a very interesting thought!

 

[braha_kahn]

define real?

 

[restin]

independent from the human mind.

 

[mysticwarrior]

Maybe it's just a stupid thought

But i had done a couple of LSD trips. And i experienced them both, as if i watched to myself under a microscope. What if DMT is able take zoom in, even further. And you are able to see bacteria or other living creatures, you can't see with your normal eyes

Soon i will try to hit a huge dose of DMT, i am so curious about what to expect.

 

[GOD]

"DMT creatures, real or not?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_humanoid

 

[IJesusChrist]

I'm with GOD On this one... they are just the products of extreme amounts of DMT acting upon your neurons.

If they are real however: We know nothing.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

If a real creature is an organism that is born, remains a stable lifeform and then dies, I doubt the DMT entities can be considered real, for at least according to some, the entities morph during the visions ("...like jeweled self-transforming basketballs these things come running toward you...").

If a real creature is one that can be seen by more than one observer, they are not real.

I can imagine a steady supply of DMT during the flash will generate a more or less steady image of an entity, but wouldn't be surprised if an additional injection of DMT would morph whatever entity one interacts with into another type of being.

So I tend to believe they are not real.

But when they are there, you have no option but to observe them of course. Which brings us to the question of how to interact with them? Or do we not have a choice in that matter?

 

[endlessness]

If a real creature is one that can be seen by more than one observer, they are not real.

what do you mean ? I think that exactly one of the points 'in favour' of some sort of 'reality', the fact that different observers in very different settings and times report meeting with similar beings, and a huge amount of the reports talk about it seeming 'more real than real'. This doesnt mean it is literally a being in another dimension, but it is enough for one to not disregard it, given the importance all these experiences seem to have for several people and how it effectively change some people's lives

I think if one is absolutely closed to notion of some kind of worthy reality to these beings, then this person might also easily disregard any information/insights that come from this world. I dont think it is the best attitude as I have seen and scientific reports seem to point out that valid positive insights and transformations can come as a result to ingesting these molecules.

Also saying they are for sure real just like this computer in front of us, then one might be giving up his ability of discerning, he might take literally all his experiences and eventually diminish his social functionality and also his general quality of relations and of emotions and health.

So I think some sort of 'curious agnostic' attitude is more prudent in this question at hand

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

what do you mean ?

All beings that we know are real can be seen by more than one observer, at the same time, and photographed. Since none of these things ever happened with DMT entities, they are not real in the common sense of the word.

report meeting with similar beings,

But never the same being at the same time, like two persons might listen to a third person speak. The beings are made visible inside your head, so they are just as real as dreams are. I'm not saying this means they have no value, just like we all know dreams have value. They may be archetypes bubbling up in an extremely synesthetic brain, which makes them appear like gnomes, aliens, weird insects or gods.

 

[Brugmansia]

They are not real itself, of course. They're not matching the biological terms of what makes it an organism.

But who knows what they are, perhaps it's an ultra sophisticated glance of the the most premature form of life you're carrying with you. Perhaps the consciousness of your semen, or living matery for the reproductive system.

 

[endlessness]

what do you mean ?

All beings that we know are real can be seen by more than one observer, at the same time, and photographed. Since none of these things ever happened with DMT entities, they are not real in the common sense of the word.

report meeting with similar beings,

But never the same being at the same time, like two persons might listen to a third person speak. The beings are made visible inside your head, so they are just as real as dreams are. I'm not saying this means they have no value, just like we all know dreams have value. They may be archetypes bubbling up in an extremely synesthetic brain, which makes them appear like gnomes, aliens, weird insects or gods.

What about emotions. Are emotions not real? They cant be photographed either, yet, we all feel it all the time and therefore agree that they are real on some level and very relevant to our life.

Our own consciousness and where the unifying 'projecting screen' is located also cannot be photographed or 'proven', yet all experience shows us otherwise. How out of the multiplicity of the cells, there is a unifying 'field' that cannot be observed? Is it not real in some level also?

I also think that the near universality of reoccurring 'themes' in these psychedelic experiences, and the very real and objective impact these 'beings' can cause on some people's lives deserves some kind of recognizing. Which again, is not to say that they are on the same level as my dog or the tree outside the window, but just avoiding this hairy endeavour of trying to divide things between 'real and non-real', but instead being pragmatic and seeing how it translates into practice

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Isn't the main question we're asking here: do these entities have a consciousness of their own, or are they projections of our consciousness?

Are there beings in another dimension that sometimes reveal themselves to us, or are we merely interacting with a reflection of ourselves? That's the 'real' issue to me.

 

[endlessness]

yes, feel free to voice your opinion and what you think is the main point

my point is that the way I see it, there arent only these options, or that one doesnt have to choose one over the other, or that choosing one isnt necessarily a good thing.

but each one to his own