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Zen + psychedelics

Jox

Matrice périnatale
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23 Oct 2012
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10
Hi all,

this a reason I joined this forum. Me and my husband are working on a retreat Zen center that will be initiated with Iboga, or maybe Aya, but probably Iboga.

I hope this forum will make me friends with likeminded people.

thank you
Jox
 

Cultosaurus

Elfe Mécanique
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11 Sept 2011
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268
Sure thing, but you have to post more, talk more, share more.
 

Jox

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23 Oct 2012
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10
I see that nobody had interest in my post: or to be specific in retreats. Has anyone been on one: either Zen or vipassana, or any other buddhist retreat?
 

ararat

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
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8 Juin 2006
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3 374
I've been to a vipassana retreat, I wouldn't combine it with psychedelics, at all. it is trippy enough in itself, I didn't even have the desire to smoke weed or anything.
 

Cultosaurus

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11 Sept 2011
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268
sorry, I've never been able to afford a retreat. retreats for me are a rustic camping trip .. . and it's been far too long since my last one
 

ararat

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8 Juin 2006
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3 374
Cultosaurus, the vipassana retreats are free, actually. you can pay if you want, but you don't have to at all. I gave them a little less than what my stay there cost. I'd have left the place if they asked for a fixed amount of money, it is poisonous for a spiritual/religious organization to do so, I think. makes it way, way, way harder to put even a little amount of trust into it.
 

ararat

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8 Juin 2006
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3 374
no, you weren't allowed to bring your own food. you get breakfast, lunch and a little fruit and cacao/tea in the evening. people who already attended a course won't even get fruit in the evening..
the food was amazing. there is a group of volunteers who meditate in the core hours of the day (3*1 hour), but spend their time cooking and cleaning in between. it seemed to me that the food they cooked was specifically designed for the course. in the morning yogurt, musli, cooked dry fruits with nuts (most delicious thing ever), and for lunch often veggies with lentils and salad and soy sauce/paste. stuff like that. it felt surpremely healthy, partly because of the spirit with which the food is being cooked I think :)

the sleeping places are provided as well. where I was, in a rural part of Austria, it was in a conference-facility or something of the kind. there are fixed, official vipassana centres too.

the only problem that I have with this dhamma thing is that the 5 precepts include the abstaining from all intoxicants. I can see why, looking at how some friends use drugs, but weed does seem to have a good influence on myself every now and then. alcohol not so much to put it lightly, I can live well without it. also, is coffee an intoxicant or not? I see nothing wrong with taking a psychedelic every now and then, especially something like ayahuasca.
oh, and another problem, the focus on attaining nirvana. I've had tastes of egoless, absolutely pure states of bliss, being, awareness and whatever, but to make it into a goal to be attained in the future is such a roundabout way of doing things. it is again the same agricultural mindset that does things to reap a benefit in the future. however, I see no problem in using the method and letting the philosophical part of it aside and do my own thing.
 

Jox

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23 Oct 2012
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Hi Ararat,

I think you got it right about vipassana. But there is another side of it: I think you got benefits from the 10 day, because you practice with plants, yet the regular folks have a very hard time and 90% never return to meditation. Actually to them it is like a torture...

And the talks are old, in Zen centers they have much better talks, yet on the other hand Zen is full of bull of rituals, venerations of a teacher, endless chantings, strict rules, and theatricality in retreats...

But, IMHO if no plants to clear the mind, no meditation.

Jox
 

GuyGeorge

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28 Avr 2008
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7 454
I've done a vipassana retreat a few months ago, errr actually just 4 days of the retreat^^ I took GHB and amphetamine the week before the retreat (I was a little lost), so I wasn't ready at all to endure that, but it had a fucking great impact anyway in my drug consumption, and I plan to try again in a few months.

I think you got it right about vipassana. But there is another side of it: I think you got benefits from the 10 day, because you practice with plants, yet the regular folks have a very hard time and 90% never return to meditation. Actually to them it is like a torture...

What you say is a really interesting point of view man!

it felt surpremely healthy, partly because of the spirit with which the food is being cooked I think :)

I personally found the food fucking delicious, but because of my greater awareness than I used to have, and because of the food restriction too hehe.

the only problem that I have with this dhamma thing is that the 5 precepts include the abstaining from all intoxicants.

I think personally that "intoxicants" are drug that decrease awareness (opiates, alcool, benzos, cannabis when you use it daily etc etc) Psychedelics are not "intoxicants" for me, but they can be harmful too if misused. And a few beers won't destroy years of meditative efforts, you just have do dose it really low, and abstaint totally in the beggining when the "light of the candle of your meditation" isn't really strong.

Sorry for the bad English, it's real late here and I'm exausted, peace to all psychonauts here :) Really interesting topic!
 

ararat

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8 Juin 2006
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jox, don't get me wrong, it was one of the most torturous and hard things I've done so far. there you meet the kind of anxiety that also rolls over you in psychedelic experiences, but with more volition involved. that being said, it may have been hard, but it paid off tremendously.
I didn't practice with plants at the time - and I find marijuana or any other drugs except for green tea maybe not very helpful for meditation. it's either/or, either I smoke some or I meditate. both don't go well together - for myself anyway.

I think personally that "intoxicants" are drug that decrease awareness (opiates, alcool, benzos, cannabis when you use it daily etc etc) Psychedelics are not "intoxicants" for me, but they can be harmful too if misused.

good point. with cannabis the difference between intoxicant and psychedelic can be quite a gradient though. personal judgement is key here.



jox, what kind of retreat center do you have in mind? whom do you want to help? what inspired you to start such a project?
 

Jox

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23 Oct 2012
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Hi Ararat,

I have in mind like a vipassana center, but the first night would be Ibogaine full flood. Then nothing. No meditation would be mixed with any other plant. I don't think marijuana is clearing the consciousness, at all, just the opposite, I don't see people who work with marijuana have any mind clarity I am after.

It could be mushrooms, peyote, ahahuasca, or lsd. But I choose Ibogaine because it doesn't give bad trip, only if full flood, and is like a metal dump.

I mentioned that even though meditation is getting big, very few people continue with the practice, and many drop it off.

I think meditation is very useful but it need to be jolted with plants, if not, very few get it.

Jox
 
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