where is the soul ?

[Maru]

If you don't remember who you are, is it really still you?

Sure.

Much like people who have had brain damage and had their personality change completely. Do they even remember who they were before?

No, but that does not mean that they 'are not'. This question is interresting and show the possible confusion between social identity, ego, memory and what I call "the soul" (althought I would prefer another term).

 

[st.bot.32]

Sure, there are many levels of experiences and memory can not totally disapear (nobody really knows what is memory and it's hard to say what are the limits of memory).
But I guess that what Loke meant is that the identity reside in a "memory of self". You are remembering that you are remembering that you are.... which create the illusion of a continuity (ego). But personal experience may shows that it's perfectly possible to BE without any kind of memory. I mean no memory of you as a social identity.(male, female, even the memory of beeing human)

Ah, thanks for clarifying, that makes more sense, especially the latter part on identity, i've definitely had experiences in this regard (finding myself in the body of someone of the opposite sex, becoming an imaginary forest creature, the feeling of disconnecting from body entirely, etc)

Aside from that I do think that some kind of memory must be functioning at some level during a psychedelic experience.. otherwise you wouldn't be able to benefit from the experience, recognize anything you were seeing, etc. Or have any recollection of the experience either.

 

[Pariah]

"If you don't remember who you are, is it really still you?"

It may be better to flip that idea round - If one morning you wake up, glance in the mirror, and instead of yourself, see ... for example: Hillary Clinton, but you have all the memories of *your life* are you Hillary Clinton, or you?


"Much like people who have had brain damage and had their personality change completely. Do they even remember who they were before?"

"That does not mean that they 'are not'."

Are you talking about the physical them?

I suppose other people would have memory of who a person is, and project their view of them onto the "new" them, but for all mental identity purposes the person is different - will not react the same to identity based stimulae - you wouldn't recognise your own mother, and even physically speaking, despite the genetic identy, the physical us is constantly being replaced by the atoms in our food / environment, so how do you resolve physical identity? does our soul reside in our genes?

Two genetically / physically identical persons are still different because of their memories, so surely our identity (how we differenciate ourselves and others) cannot be based on the physical self?

How would you define the soul, mara? Would you say it defies explanaition, and just *is*?

 

[st.bot.32]

"If you don't remember who you are, is it really still you?"

It may be better to flip that idea round - If one morning you wake up, glance in the mirror, and instead of yourself, see ... for example: Hillary Clinton, but you have all the memories of *your life* are you Hillary Clinton, or you?


"Much like people who have had brain damage and had their personality change completely. Do they even remember who they were before?"

"That does not mean that they 'are not'."

Are you talking about the physical them?

I suppose other people would have memory of who a person is, and project their view of them onto the "new" them, but for all mental identity purposes the person is different - will not react the same to identity based stimulae - you wouldn't recognise your own mother, and even physically speaking, despite the genetic identy, the physical us is constantly being replaced by the atoms in our food / environment, so how do you resolve physical identity? does our soul reside in our genes?

Two genetically / physically identical persons are still different because of their memories, so surely our identity (how we differenciate ourselves and others) cannot be based on the physical self?

How would you define the soul, mara? Would you say it defies explanaition, and just *is*?

This question gets really interesting if you think about the (currently science fiction) idea of transferring somebody's mind into a computer.

First of all it is physically impossible--the most you can do is make an exact replica of what is in someone's brain. And then you have a computer with an exact replica of your brain, and you still have your original self. Even if the original self dies at the same time, you are not transferring the essence of being.. the awareness. You are simply (possibly) creating a new one which will immediately begin forming its own memories

 

[GOD]

Sorry to change the flow guys but .

" Stop being so arrogant, and read more. Again, I am having serious difficulty understanding your materialistic views, especially when they are supposedly influenced by entheogen's."

Stop continualy twisting my words in this thread and stop projecting your crap on me . I havent said anything that isnt true . You keep talking crap . I havent disputed if there is a soul , if you had bothered to read what i have said and had the brains to understand it you would have seen that . Try to be objective .

Thanky guys . Please carry on where you left off . I have said all i wanted to say . Bye Bye .

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

I started off thinking I was this body.

I then identified myself with an atman or jiva (soul) being encaged in a body consisting of buddhi (intellect), manas (mind) and indriya (senses). I believed the jiva was an eternal entity that reincarnates. I don't believe that anymore. I believe the creation as a whole reincarnates into conscious entities, but at death identity is lost and that particular life and 'being' ends. The show continues in the world however: new human babies born etc.