we don't exist????

[BrainEater]

we don't exist????? is it true????


or well.............. maybe the question should be: is it that we exist more than we don't exist or is it that we more don't exist than we exist???

 

[Brugmansia]

Something wrong Braineater? You look a little whiter than usual.

 

[IJesusChrist]

You don't exist unless you know you do.

If you question it, you'll begin to fade, but disappearing is not an option.

 

[darkwolfunseen]

^ Well said. There's varying degrees of existence, starting with none and ending with all. However, worrying about it too much, might make you miss out on the fact that "to exist" is actually a verb, one that requires action as much as thought.

 

[magickmumu]

We use our senses to become aware of the world outside and of ourselves.
The parts of reality that our senses can not become aware of have no existence for us.

It's like Plato´s allegory of the Cave. I am sure you heard of it.
[youtube]69F7GhASOdM[/youtube]
(for those who don't know the allegory)

 

[magickmumu]

Does anyone remember that movie eXistenZ.
A film about a game that plugs into the nervous system, and is almost as real as reality itself.
[youtube]HAdbdUt_h9M[/youtube]

I like that movie. It goes into this question of what is reality.

 

[twoceebee]

Does anyone remember that movie eXistenZ.
A film about a game that plugs into the nervous system, and is almost as real as reality itself.
[youtube]HAdbdUt_h9M[/youtube]

I like that movie. It goes into this question of what is reality.

I like that film too. Recently read a book called "Vurt" by Jeff Noon, kind of touches on the same ideas. I'm sure many on here have read it. Got the sequel in the post last week, cant wait to get started

 

[magickmumu]

never heard of that book i will check it out thank you

 

[BrainEater]

so yall dont know jacksh+ttttt?? please tell me how you wanna distinguish a dream from real reality if you can't distinguish reality from a dream???


"The parts of reality that our senses can not become aware of have no existence for us. "

that's not obvious, we might be subconsciously aware of our "not-awareness" of these parts of reality and
according to this, form thoughts, and therefore these things would gain indirect, rather unreal solidity or fluidity
or whatever in the labyrinths of our minds....


"You don't exist unless you know you do."

ok i mean in some way this makes sense, but all this conditioning thinking towards the notion of existing seem to be overrated, how can we not only exist without knowing we exist and how can we not know we exist, while existing in a different state of consciousness than non-consciousness, death, birth, etc??


"However, worrying about it too much, might make you miss out on the fact that "to exist" is actually a verb, one that requires action as much as thought."

again i somewhat agree, yet i keep wondering why existing requires so much requirements, but i deem it'd be stupid to question why we'd need food, etc etc for self-sustainment?? but well it's all logical we use energy, we don't produce it so we have to consume forms of it to convert it and maintain our over-time-being-created-form...


"Something wrong Braineater? You look a little whiter than usual."

oh well i guess the darkness of the caves is to be blamed, fuck it, my skin adapting like a chameleon to the absence of the tender caress of the warm beams of light... damnn cold seasons here!!!! lol


peace :weedman:

 

[magickmumu]

Distinguishing dreams from reality is a technique for lucid dreaming.
I don't know if your ever had a lucid dream?

Lucid dreaming is one of the many way's to make ourselves more aware of the unconscious.
Or to put in in other words to break down the barriers between the conscious and the unconscious.

But now we enter into the subject of consciousness and there is so much to say about it.
I don't know where to begin.
I want to write some more on this , but have no time now. :lol:

 

[I-Am-Ford]

I think therefore I exist. The real question is what do "I" associate with existence? Am I physical? well, by definition, I am. Matter is energy, I am definitely energy, so from the perspective of the "person" typing this, I am physical. Am I a dream, a "Phantom" of my own imagination? Well from the infinite perspective, I am a figment of my own imagination. I am both simultaneously. I am all simultaneously,the only thing in question is through which am I focusing my attention, Now ?

Life is anything you want it to be and as detailed as you want to make it.


FORD
www.becominggod.org

 

[BrainEater]

congratulations!!... your logical deduction skills seem to be considered above average!!

 

[ochho]

Congratulations Braineater, you have truly earned your nickname because I think that every one of your posts makes my brain die a little bit more inside.

 

[BrainEater]

fnord???

 

[IJesusChrist]

The difference between a dream, and reality, is your definition of 'reality' has to do with your interpretation of your 5 senses.

That means outside stimuli is affecting your nervous system, and you are responding. A dream is only different in that you are responding to your own riddles.

:ANAL:

 

[BrainEater]

inside =/= outside ... i think at last we might get this, but can't you tell us something new?? :? :axe:

 

[Isaac]

So, to start this off, I would like to speak about the brain. The brain is what forms this physical reality that we inhabit. The brain makes up our world by how it interprets electrical signals which are sent to it from the different senses. So, in a sense, our outside world is a projected hologram that is made up by our brain. Our eyes send signals to the brain and it interprets them so that we see what we see. Our senses combine together and form our reality. So, does any of this (being reality) actually exist? I have come up with two theories from the that question (haven't thought of any others as of yet). Pt 1... If everything is an interpretation of the mind, then the brain would go along with the same rules as everything else. If everything in our reality is formed by the mind, all things physical and nonphysical, then the brain would be in the same category, since it exists in the physical. So, there would have be something deeper to make up what we experience. There would be a background substance, which I see as consciousness, perception, energy, whatever, its all the same (not really, but kind of). Consciousness is the only definate, it experiences and it makes up everything. This will pop up again later. The second is that everything does exist. The brain forms our reality from the interpretations from the signals from the senses, which includes the brain in that interpretation. So, the alternate to the last theory is that everything already exists. Since the brain interprets and forms our reality, doesn't the brain have to exist? The only thin that i can think of is that there is something deeper.

But those are some ideas to do with that. So, to delve a bit deeper, I would like to say something about dreams. Apparently, when you dream, the exact parts of the brain that are used in waking life are used while dreaming. The same centers of the brain are activated for thinking, whether consciously aware or in an unconscious state. So, how I see it, is that everything is experiences and life. Some look at life and think that nothing exists, but how I see it, Everything Exists. In our "normal" state of mind, we experience life a certain way. Under the influence of something, we experience life a certain way. While dreaming, we experience life. Some say that individuals who use substances are doing so, so that they can escape reality. It may be the intent, but I don't believe that it can be done, because it is ALL reality, no matter how you experience it. No matter what state an individual is currently in, they still consciously exist. Isn't that what reality is? Perception? Conscious perception? No matter what the state, no matter where an individual is, they still consciously perceive, so they still exist perceiving the reality in which they inhabit. There is still so much more to say, but I will leave it at that. Also, I'm not saying that any of this is the definate, positive and only way; just some thoughts and theories, and if you disagree, I hope that it spurred on some thought.

One more thing before I am done, I would like to say that I found this site today and I am very excited and pleased with what I have seen so far. So, I thank everyone for doing what they are doing and hope that you continue to do what you do. Peace and Love to all.

 

[Mescaline]

A warm welcome to you, Isaac!
You just took the words straight from my mouth.
At this point we do not see the brain differentiating between experiences during waking state, dream state, imagination etc etc. (maybe this will change with more advanced equipment to measure brain activity tho, but i'll just ignore that for now). Thus, reality is everything one experiences. But.. this wasn't the question, altought it is relevant.

Do WE exist??
Experience = reality. But who is the one experiencing? The brain?.. no.. if it were the brain this would mean people who've had surgery to remove part of the brain wouldn't be a whole 'you' or 'I' anymore, instead only a three-quarter you or something would remain. That idea of something physical being 'I' is just ludicrous to me, as it can always be countered by that thought-experiment.
So, I is non-physical. What I've come up with upto now is that 'I' is the identification with the body, and it's actions, by .. Life? Consciousness? It's a prdouct of existence, a product of life, without it we, as a bunch of I's, cannot keep on existing, we wouldn't take care of ourselves, we wouldn't feed ourselves. Hmmm, I'm starting to confuse myself now.. what I'm trying to get to is that 'I' does not really exist; it's an illusion to make sure you stay Alive. LIFE exists.

 

[magickmumu]

interesting idea mescaline.

Ever heard of cellular memory. It does not have to do with consciousness, but with memory.
The idea of cellular memory is based on reports of people who have had organ transplants, and developed new habits and memory's because of this. The idea of cellular memory seems to suggest that memory is not only stored in the brain but in all the cells of the body.

 

[I-Am-Ford]

I just want to say that I am loving this topic!! Below is a bit more of my few cents. I hope at the every least, whether you agree with me or not, that this will spark more philosophical pondering.

I would completely agree that the identification of the "I" is at the crux of all of this. I believe that "I" am an infinite being, therefor, for me, Identifying myself as the person I see in the mirror is an incorrect assessment. I will always be "me", and you (from your perspective) will always be "me". This identification as "me" is both infinite and unbound, extending beyond the physical and into in-numerous levels of awareness and consciousness. It is this infinite identification as "Me" that we all share collectively as our sub-conscious mind. However, The identification I have while writing this is the Identification I have with the body, but If I were to switch my focus to a more infinite perspective, I then become the observer to my life, with no more attachment then I would for a character in a film. Getting to this state can be done through thought alone, but it comes to us quite naturally when we are "high", as in having a "higher perspective of consciousness". In this state of mind, we are care free because we are not identifying ourselves with our body, but we Identify ourselves as the infinite sub-conscious mind. We can also have a much more detailed Identification of "I" than our bodies, this would be a "lower state of consciousness", than a typical Identification with the body. You may notice this anytime you are stressed out or consumed with the details of life. In those moments, we get sucked in and reality becomes almost too real. Things that are not important to you now, can be overwhelming in a lower state of consciousness. Its usually when we are too sucked into reality, that we ingest a metaphor like psychedelics or smoke weed or other drugs as a symbolic sacrament to instruct the mind of our desire to escape the "realness" of our reality. When we are high, we identify with the infinite singular mind, our source, and can clearly see that reality is simply a manifestation of our own imagination, much like a halladeck.

Thoughts and ideas stream through us from the infinite singular mind and that information is carefully sifted for the thoughts that we find interesting or more importantly, find relevant to us as a separate individualistic ego. It is from these relevant thoughts, which are hand picked by you conscious mind (metaphorically represented as a brain) that our reality is constructed. This is why reality mirrors the way we feel about our self, and this is why everyones reality is different from their perspective.

Reality is only subject to our own sense of self-worth. Aside from that we are simply a passenger observer. To improve ones reality, we must first hold a higher sense of self-worth.


FORD
http://www.becominggod.org