Vegetarianism & Veganism

[Twilight]

I noticed I'm not the only vegetarian on this board, I think that's great.

As a vegetarian I'm curious about the people who also include dairy products, eggs and other animal products to their not-to-eat list, and what their diet consists of.

What does everyone think of not eating meat? And how do you handle situations in which you have to explain why you're a vegetarian/vegan?

I've had a lot of encounters with people who just kept saying things like "Uh, I just like meat. I don't care."
It's a shame people don't think enough about things like that, and I feel like I might even be worrying too much about it, but I also feel like I'm doing the right thing.

 

[restin]

I can only copy the thought of a friend of me - meant generally is a large part of human's plate. Since we are tribes, we hunt and eat meat. Nevertheless, today, meat is no more a means of survival but an industrialized ... thing. The relation between animal and man, hunter and hunted has ceased.

I still am not a vegetarian.

funny offtopic:

"I think Im so educated and Im so civilized
cos Im a strict vegetarian
But with the over-population and inflation and starvation
And the crazy politicians
I dont feel safe in this world no more
I dont want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man"

 

[Oknayd]

What does everyone think of not eating meat? And how do you handle situations in which you have to explain why you're a vegetarian/vegan?

Well, for me it's quite simple actually. My stepdad stands on the market with meat-products, so we almost practically ate meat every night. I got sick of it, so that's the primary reason i tell people why i don't eat meat, i don't like the taste. I also don't like the way the industry is, so much food/meat is being wasted and there is not a lot of respect for these animals.
A year or two ago i started eating fish again from time to time, and i must say i enjoy that very much, although i know there's the problem of overfishing.
I try to make conscious choices about the fish i eat though.

I rarely come into situations where i have to defend my vegetarianism anymore, i guess it's getting more accepted or it's just that a LOT of people i know (and get to know) are already vegetarians..

EDIT: lol i just saw this

 

[Brugmansia]

Protein is a chemical structure, bindend amino acids and it's the fuel of processes from where tissue and controlled constructions are made. It does produce the build up process for life and forms binded solid tissue.

Plant material 'just is', it's there with a very simple structure, more naturally. Life on earth was created out of this basic structure.

So what's it with meat? Meat contains a very complicated protein structure, it's literally cut off from a living being who went through earlier processes of constructing a complicated structure of binded tissue. We humans consume this again and our bodies yet again create an even more complicated structure.

Now, structuring tissue goes hand in hand with the growth of cells. And, throughout human history we found out that errors and side effects in this process occur faster and easier by the increase of a complicated structure.. And independ cells seemed to grow their own independent expansion. Known as cancer.

It's unknown to us what exactly causes cancer, but what we do know is that a family chain who has lived generation after generation on simple protein, definitely have a decreased risk of developing an error in their structuring process.

So to be merely 'alive', with a consciousness and no additional binded tissue, plant protein is sufficient. Complicated protein is not neccesary, but merely eating plant material is considered as 'dull' within out Western model.

For example. The more difficult structure a building has, the more complicated stones and structures are required, and more risks of instability occur. While a simple house build up from wood and timber exists closer to the original basic ground.

And yes, the protein story does apply to our whole mental model as well. To reach ego death, one must break down all his gained bricks, to come to the point of the very first beginning.

So a vegan already starts much closer to this beginning. And has to go less further back to come 'there'. And also benefits from a more accessible and sensitive body with more gates to detect everything through self-diagnosis. A more sensitive skin and a better sensory perception for sexual zones, as well as their inner life.

I do consume quite a lot eggs, fish and diary, but rarely meat. I'm into bodybuilding. I'm always tapering back on everything except from fish.

Teleporting between the 2 realms that is. Switching between both the outer sides, the solid world, and a liquid world in steps.

To start with the shortest path to dissolution, one should live on vegatables, fruits and rice for two weeks prior to the experience..

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

It's not the lack of protein (or minerals) one needs to be worried about, it's the fatty acids, and certain vitamins.

 

[Brugmansia]

Fatty acids (nut's, fish oil) can be used as an alternative fuel source for carbohydrates. But there's nothing wrong with carbohydrates from rice and bread.

Problem with using healthy fat chains as a primair source is that you lack filaments. And inbalanced insulin levels may lead to diabetes in the long-term. This what you see in the western society by older people, throughout their lifes they haven't eated carbohydrates regulary enough and diabetes is developed. Not eating breakfast is just... wack.

Anyway, back to not eating meat.

 

[druglessdouglas]

i know fish is "good for you" but stop eating them. we have raped the fish and the sea. you live in the west, you dont need more of anything except fruit and veg. whatever excuses you are making are lies. stop

we need 4 oz of protein a week, no more. you piss the rest out. if you have heard different, it is also a lie.
if you eat meat do this once: kill something, gut it and skin it. then you will understand meat. untill then you have NO CLUE.
meat is special. it should be a treat. respect it

i feel strongly on this subject. ive shot and killed my meat. it was happily running about and i took its life. i spilt it and boned it. i respect it for what it is
its living, feeling and thinking. its like you or I

if you eat at Macdonalds or Murderking you should be tortured IMO. i would happily do it myself just so you understand
no peace or love

 

[????????]

I very rarely eat breakfast. I get up late, almost past noon. I go to bed very late, rather early. Is this lifestyle unsuitable in the long run? if so, in what way?

I don't like feeling like a carnivore, not anymore. When little I sometimes pretended to be a feral creature and I entered my kitchen moving by my knees and hands, to seize these cans of little sausages that my mother used to buy. I then hid somewhere and proceeded to devour my bounty without breaking character (I curled my fingers and held them close yo my palm so my hands behaved like those of a cat).

But I like being an omnivore, I find useful not being meticulous in my diet. I don't like meat that much, in fact, I pass often the opportunity to eat some, except for chicken, which I do enjoy much. I would have to take many considerations if I were to follow a vegetarian diet, since my dairy lunch is decided by María. She's a woman who cooks lunches for a living and supplies my household almost everyday (my mother buys from her because we can't cook anything right now because my house is being remodeled and currently there's no kitchen). The menu is white rice, varying grains, varying salads and meat. All I can choose is whether I'd prefer chicken, red meat, fish or sometimes pork. I always choose chicken.

I know I could live without it though. Although I'd miss lasagna. Maybe someday I'll mind with more preoccupation what enters my organism.

 

[st.bot.32]

i'm not vegan or vegetarian, but i generally opt for the vegan choices when they are available, and frequently go for weeks without eating meat. i'm happy to support vegan products. anyway i'm pretty lucky, where i live there are some amazing vegan and vegetarian restauraunts. if i became vegetarian i'd basically be vegan by default. i don't like most dairy, i already drink soy milk. cheese would be hard to give up tho i dont seem to eat it at all these days..

it is entirely possible to get all you need on a vegan diet, but especially women (for obvious reasons) have to make sure they get their irons (heme/non heme). i've spoken to doctors who are basically specially trained to check vegans for signs of anemia. lots of dark greens, nutritional yeast for certain b vitamins, fortified soy/rice milk.. , some vitamin supplements and it is quite doable, props to those who go all the way and do it!

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

i know fish is "good for you" but stop eating them. we have raped the fish and the sea. you live in the west, you dont need more of anything except fruit and veg. whatever excuses you are making are lies. stop

I'm not making excuses. I don't like the taste of fish or fish oil capsules. I also don't like overfishing or the fact that a lot of fish is polluted. However, the issue of omega-3 fatty acids, specifically DHA and EPA, is scientific, not ideological.

Yes, your body can transform normal omega-3 fatty acids from flaxseed oil into DHA and EPA, but it does so very inefficiently, and many people lack the vitamins (B6 and a bunch of others) which the body needs for the different step of that process. Moreover, you're going to need a lot of flaxseed oil compared to fish oil, which increases the risk of lipid oxidation, which means one has to ingest more vitamin E and other anti-oxidants. You could get your DHA from algae, but those capsules are even more expensive, and you really need the EPA as well.

I used to be a strict vegetarian, but as I studied orthomolecular nutrition, I eventually decided that (since the health of my nervous system had been my main interest in orthomolecular science) I'd better start ingesting fish oil capsules, which I've done for 8 years now.

So my conclusion is that it's possible to be a vegan healthy throughout life, if one is prepared to pay the price of a daily regimen of expensive supplements. The lacto-vegetarian diet is a healthier alternative, as long as one doesn't drink too much milk. Eggs contain lecithin and omega-3 fatty acids, so they are good for the nervous system, but for different reasons they must be used in moderation. When you include fish oil in your diet, you can't really consider yourself a vegetarian anymore, but from my vantage point it's the healthiest choice for your nervous and cardiovascular systems. Fish oil capsules may be better than eating fish, because when you heat a fish, the fatty acids are compromised. Moreover not all fish contains significant amounts of EPA and DHA, and practically all fish contains PCBs and other pollutants. It's possible to get fish oil capsules for companies that screen the fish for pollutants, and that make sure no overfishing takes place (true, these are generally the more expensive fish oil capsules, and moreover they come in gelatin capsules).

 

[druglessdouglas]

there are a few exceptions (to my fish rant). sardines and anchovies mature rapidly and can probably be eaten relatively safely. also, being short lived fish low down the food chain dont accumulate too much polutants such as mercury.
cod is a different matter all together. in the north Atlantic it is heading to extinction. the cod on your plate was most likely caught in the south atlantic and has travelled, chug, chug, chug, by boat half way around the world

 

[Forkbender]

Few weeks ago I did acid and was preparing a meal (which was a hell of a task 5 hours after ingesting 2.5 blotters). It was a strange experience. I thought about why people eat what they eat and came to the conclusion that eating cheese and dairy is just as strange as eating meat. Why would stealing milk from an animal that we have bred to give large amounts of baby-milk be any different than killing it and eating it? Eating cheese suddenly felt even weirder than eating meat. I was already a vegetarian, but am willing to try vegan food soon, just phasing out the dairy out of my fridge, which takes a long time, btw.

Heating food was strange as well. Why burn something that is perfectly energetic? Raw food is something I would like to try for a few months to see if I am right about my intuition.

 

[druglessdouglas]

Forkbender, i had a very similar experience some years ago while cooking crabs id caught while freediving. monkeys eating crabs really wierded me out.

one of my old diving instructors used to live entirely on raw vegetables. he suffered from some form of hepatitis and found the raw veg diet kept him healthy, but he had to eat constantly to get enough calories. unfortunately it killed him, in an indirect way. he always had gas. his intestines burst while ascending from 40+ meters. it took him 3 days to die. he was a good man

 

[Forkbender]

That must have been a terrible death.

Eating constantly would be a change, but I'm interested in how it would feel and how it would alter my consciousness (if at all). I've heard several stories. Some people need less sleep than normal. Some feel less hunger. Some people miss the warmth of the food. Some people are very strict, others can eat raw 70% of the time. I have noticed changes when I stopped eating meat. After about a month I noticed I was more aware of myself and my surroundings, more clear headed. I never felt craving for it and could easily remove it from my diet. I started eating more vegetables and noticed they all had different tastes and textures, where before they were always a side-dish. Very interesting, and although I don't believe every true psychonaut will end up being a vegetarian, I do believe experimenting with diet and looking how it influences the mind is one of the most interesting, yet subtle aspects of life.

 

[Guest]

1

 

[Mara]

Meat felt waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different than fruits and veggies as a pleasing feeling flowed through my stomach as I touched fruits n veggies. I was tripping on acid in Frisco in 05 or 06 and had a bowl of chicken and hot sauce. Something told me not to eat it, I took one bite of the chicken dripping in grease and felt like I wanted to puke. Well my point is I think psychedelics can teach us what foods work well with my body. I am very intrested in these posts!

I understand what you're saying. I think I would feel the same in a supermarket. But a few months ago I had my first LSD trip, and after a while I decided I was hungry and grabbed a watermelon out of the fruit basket. Cutting that thing was one of the hardest things I had ever done. I had to use a big sharp knife. The red fruity flesh looked so alive, and very similar to meat. I even had an uncomfortable feeling eating it; I had a few bites and decided to get a glass of water instead.

I'm vegetarian since a few months, and I must say I feel very healthy. I do need meat-replacements though, like soy-burgers. I guess the meat, potatoes and veggie dinners I was brought up with has not lost all of it's impact.

 

[Ketter]

I don't eat meat and I don't use dairy products. I started with this diet after a mystical experience on 120 grams mushrooms. When I started with it, it felt like I was completely cleaning my body but in the process, I started to develop more feelings towards how we treat animals in our society and I have become more active in raising awareness of it.

Now I have an outspoken meaning on the subject which I ususally keep to myself since I've been a corpseeater myself for 37 years and I feel people should figure this out by themselves and not someone pointing fingers at them but, since you asked, here's my take on it:

- Eating meat is like eating corpses.
- In the Netherlands only, we have 500 million animals slaughtered per year in concentration type faciliies.
- You can teach pigs to play a video game with a joystick, you can't teach dogs that even if you threathen to cut off their balls. Still, we kill millions of pigs in concentration camps giving them not the tiniest piece of respect but we treat these dumb dogs, as if they are our childeren, we even cloth then and give them haircuts.
- Dairy is as bloody as meat, basically milk is made of killed male calfs
- Dairy is actually bad for you, if you combine dairy with fruit, the vitamins in the fruit are not processed since your body has it's hands full processing the dairy
- unanaesthetised castration WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT (hint: another concentration camp clue....)
- Certain types of cancer are meat related.
- Anyone aware of the epidemic of poor bone structure in elderly people in Western Societies? It's dairy related (milk is not good for your bones)
- Meat is absolutely not needed for a healthy diet.
- Eating meat should not be a right it should be illegal. Once it was a right to beat up your wife, or your childeren. We have evolved past that. Now we have to become more aware and stop killing animals for fucking clothes and meat. It's uncivilized and it's barbaric , its unhealthy and it's not needed at all.
- Introducing a vegan diet can cut your chances to get any type of cancer with up to 50%
- You smell and look much better if you don't eat/drink animal products.
- Vegans eat from the low end of the foodchain, we don't eat animals that processed toxic food (growth hormones, antibiotics, pesticides in the food etc..)


So that's my take on all of this, since you asked

also interesting:
http://www.eatveg.com/veglovers.htm

 

[Twilight]

Interesting. Thanks for your input!

You know it sucks to live among people who like to eat meat while you know you just can't make them a vegetarian or vegan. It's like you, as a vegan or vegetarian, are the odd one out, while it should be the other way round.

Everyone who feels they have doubts about their vegetarianism or veganism should watch "We Feed The World" in which several quite shocking things are explained about the rain forest and meat industry.

 

[Faust]

Life feeds on life.

 

[mysticwarrior]

I am now vegan for 6 years and before i was for 2 years a vegetarian. I also became involved with Animal Rights activism for a couple of years. I did demonstrate against vivisection, fur farms etc, I know some people need a lot of arguments, and i can write them all down and discuss them. But nowadays, i have only a view words to say: We don't need meat to say in live. So why still torture, kill and abuse all these defenseless animals which have probably feelings etc, just like us.. If they can't stand up for them selfs, then i will do that for them. I converted a lot of people to become a vegetarian/vegan by showing them some terrible movies. But nowadays i got tired of that, i think people really need to find this out for them selfs. Only then, they are able to live like a real vegetarian or vegan.

Maybe it sounds radically, but i do believe there is a holocaust going on out there! Have you ever seen a fur farm? It exactly looks like a concentration camp. The foxes and minks that live/suffer inside these farms are even going to be gassed or electrocuted. And all thisl, for some luxury product called fur. Here in Holland we have almost the most fur farms in this world. Something like 3.6 million minks get killed each year in Holland. A view years back, i believe 1995 we had even more pigs then humans in our country. But you never saw one walking outside!

Eating meat, without the need of survival is just brutal killing and i think that's something we humans are gonna learn the next 100 years or so. For example I still remember that 8 years ago, almost no one did know what a vegan was. But nowadays i don't have to explain that anymore. A lot of supermarkets are celling vegetarian foods, it's sad that there are still eggs in this products(which is really not needed), but it's going in the right direction. There is also much research going on, and a lot of these research proofs that living live as a vegetarian or vegan, can be more healthy. Of course you need to watch your diet, something i often forget. But i have hope for the future, i remember a slogan of those days i did demonstration: Human Freedom and Animal Right, it's one struggle, one fight!