Vegetarian?

[waygie]

Or that they need to be treated well before they die?

 

[Teonanacapilli]

What makes you think you deserve to live? Why shouldn't I beat you, sear your flesh, slice your jugular, cut you up and throw your ribs on a barbecue?

I think the fact they are ALIVE is enough. It is unnecessary to kill an animal for food except in survival situations, and unnecessary killing seems very primitive to me. It just feels wrong to me now, after many experiences in the wild, with psychedelics and lots of mindful thought.

 

[waygie]

I'm more conscious than an animal. I'm more alive

senseless killing is proof that we are a higher species, we live beyond just survival and do things for emtertainment

 

[Teonanacapilli]

When you were three years old, the average pig was more intelligent and sophisticated than your and the family pet. Life is life, there is no more or less alive.

To me, senseless killing is proof that we are still undeveloped and not near our potential. We are still playing ape games.

Seriously, did you watch the video?

 

[waygie]

look at fly, do you think they really *live*? even a dog doesn't live as much as a human does...thats my point


and, no, we're not playing ape games when we kill things for pleasure. apes don't kill for pleasure, thats mostly unique to humans :axe:

 

[ophiuchus]

i do think that something needs to change in regards to.. farming. meat... but i dont have a strong stance either way. however this strikes me as a statement not well developed...

"senseless killing is proof that we are a higher species, we live beyond just survival and do things for emtertainment"

"senseless", meaning without attention, without purpose. killing. if we are killing senselessly, then that would mean that we are not regarding, or, paying attention to the killing. which is entirely opposed to concept of entertainment. where we highly regard the source of entertainment, and give it our full attention; a man in an animal chop shop is most likely there to pay the bills, not to play.

 

[Teonanacapilli]

Most of the time, I value other animal life much more than humans. Can anyone name just one positive thing we've done for the planet?

"Paying the bills" is a fucking weak reason to commit genocide. I hear that and want to go into the slaughterhouses with an automatic shotgun. You wont have any fucking bills to pay if you have no torso left :butthead: Sure, there's a lot more nazi bastards out there, but every bit helps!!

even a dog doesn't live as much as a human does...thats my point

How do you know that? What an arrogant thing to say! You can only comment on human life, actually, YOUR human life because that is all you have experienced (unless you happen to remember past lives).

and, no, we're not playing ape games when we kill things for pleasure. apes don't kill for pleasure, thats mostly unique to humans

Humans are apes. By "ape games" I simply meant that we are being primitive.

 

[waygie]

no we're committing "genocide" because we want some fucking food and theres no point in making the food comfortable...thats just a waste of money

you are really stupid if you think humans don't live more than animals....i'm not even gunna say why. just look around you
and you're even dumber if you think we're apes lol (we evolved from apes. key word: evolved)
to you senseless killing may be "primitive" but if you look at primitive species' you wont find any senseless killing. so.....

 

[Proteus]

I grow a lot of food and sometimes a wild animal, usually a deer, will manage to get around my defences and eat the produce. At times like that I imagine if there was a food shortage in the future I could hunt, kill and eat that/those deer that ate from my garden. Other than that I don't eat meat unless someone's already bought & cooked it with a mind to feed me. My girlfriend is the same.

 

[ararat]

no we're committing "genocide" because we want some fucking food and theres no point in making the food comfortable...thats just a waste of money

you are really stupid if you think humans don't live more than animals....i'm not even gunna say why. just look around you
and you're even dumber if you think we're apes lol (we evolved from apes. key word: evolved)

you seem like you haven't looked into the psychedelic mirror yet, also, you should read into E-prime to do yourself and others a favor.

if you want us to convince that humans live more than animals you should give us some arguments for that statement, some things just don't seem as self-evident to other people.


also, you should try food that actually had a comfortable time, gosh I don't like beef, but this highland cattle that lived in total peace on an alp (at which I also found magic mushrooms :mrgreen: ) tasted so damn good it was uncanny. usually I eat vegetarian, but sometimes I sin a little and eat meat as well.

 

[waygie]

you seem like you haven't looked into the psychedelic mirror yet, also, you should read into E-prime to do yourself and others a favor.

if you want us to convince that humans live more than animals you should give us some arguments for that statement, some things just don't seem as self-evident to other people.


also, you should try food that actually had a comfortable time, gosh I don't like beef, but this highland cattle that lived in total peace on an alp (at which I also found magic mushrooms :mrgreen: ) tasted so damn good it was uncanny. usually I eat vegetarian, but sometimes I sin a little and eat meat as well.

just reading that made me look into it lol

anyways when it comes to living look at the complexity and uniqueness of humans lives compared to animals, look at the mark they make on the world (or lack thereof), look at their will. life and (as well as intelligence) could easily be defined as will which is a result of consciousness (..or lack thereof). humanity as whole is becoming more alive and gaining more will. the only downfall is how careless we are with our power when it comes to how harshly we treat our earth. we assume theres a lo more fuel than there is. literally and figuratively. but maybe we (correctly) assume we'll find a new power source...literally and figuratively

 

[BrainEater]

i think humans naturally have the potential to be evil, while animals don't. and if they have it, they probably could only have learned that from humans. i also think humans tendentiously have a greater potential for consciousness but also for unconsciousness. animals live closer together with nature, than humans do.
we need to use more infinite power sources like the sun and stop wasting finite resources of the precious planet earth.
and we need more respect and care for other living consciousness phenomena like we ourselves are. yeah we might have to rule the animal kingdom, but that still means we have to care about them and treat them well. that is at least my opinion. i think it's more effective to live together with nature in mutually sustainable ways to which probably pure explotative methods don't really appear to suit complementarily. i believe that in a more and more densely populated world, specifically ego-driven individuals will face more and more obstacles than they maybe would have before.

 

[waygie]

I can agree with that^
besides the humans being more unconscious part. The world is unconscious, the more unconscious you are the closer you are to it. I kinda think the left side if our brain Iis our subconscious and the right side is counsciousness but I don't really know

and what do you mean by your last sentence?

 

[ararat]

I can agree with that^
besides the humans being more unconscious part. The world is unconscious, the more unconscious you are the closer you are to it. I kinda think the left side if our brain Iis our subconscious and the right side is counsciousness but I don't really know

and what do you mean by your last sentence?

my experience shows, that the more consciousness you (allow yourself to) facilitate, the closer you come to the world/universe/other people. unconsciousness appears as the root of most/all suffering. how do you know that the world is unconscious? it might seem so..

when you define the degree of living to correlate with willingness it does not surprise you think that humans "live more" than animals.
experience showed me, however, that UNconsciousness, willingness and its close relative wantingness all go hand in hand. on the other hand, consciousness seems more confined to just BEING, than wanting. so you could say that animals live more so than many humans - but I like to think that all live at an equal level (or more like no level at all).

 

[waygie]

Will is the ability to manipulate the world in a way that conforms to what you want
humans have more will than animals and it's borne from a greater awareness/coinsciousness

By becoming one with the universe you give up your will, your will becomes that of the universe. You have to make the universe become one with you... And humans have succeeded in that more than any other species in this galaxy


You were talking about unconscious wanting, humans have more conscious wanting than animals. It'd just retardedly politically correct to think that equality exists, and until we realize that we will be getting the smaller side of things
most humans, at least subconsciously, realize that human life is more valuable than an animals. But it seems like only the power elite realize equality among humans is a fairytale

 

[waygie]

Consciousness directly results in wanting while unconsciousness. Are you that backwards? Just look at our bodies. What is unconscious? Heart, breathing (for the most part), brain function, etc. All focuse on sustaining homeostasis. All focused on being rather than becoming (and becoming happens from a *want* to become) why don't you quit looking for a truth that feels right rather than a truth that is right

 

[IJesusChrist]

Waygie - do you believe apes are conscious?

If so, do you believe a whale is conscious?

If so, do you believe a cat is conscious?

If so, do you believe a crow is conscious?

If so, do you believe a mouse is conscious?

If so, do you believe a frog is conscious?

If so do you believe a minnow is conscious?

If so, do you believe a praying mantis is conscious?

If so, do you believe a beatle is conscious?

If so, do you believe a worm is conscious?

If so, do you believe a root is conscious?

If so, do you believe a plant is conscious?

A fungus? A bacteria? A virus? A molecule? An atom?

Where do you draw the line, I am curious. No doubt you do not believe a plant is conscious... do you?

 

[waygie]

god damn it fuck. whats with these absolutist statements. and why do i have to keep on repeating myself? :evil:

consciousness isn't just either or, there are varying levels of consciousness. is a plant conscious? no, i don't think so. and if it does have any it's not enough to be considered conscious. it's a subconscious thing

 

[Jeniger]

Don't waste your time in arguments and discussion
attempting to grasp the ungraspable.

Each thing reveals the One,
the One manifests as all things.
To live in this Realization
is not to worry about perfection or non-perfection.
To put your trust in the Heart-Mind is to live without separation,
and in this non-duality you are one with your Life-Source.

Words! Words!
The Way is beyond language,
for in it there is no yesterday,

no tomorrow

no today.

 

[waygie]

I think out of all the common paths, yours is one of the best. That said, it's just half the answer(which is more than I can say about almost any religion) I won't bother trying to show you a better way because you've found such a good answer you won't listen to anything else but I just think buhhdism is the easy way out