Bastiaan a dit:
Jep, but i guess he missed the point.
Sorry, i didn't mean in that way. You don't really missed the point. But from my perspective you did
, i think it is very important for humans to have a explanation for there live and the way reality does present it self to them. Science created a perspective on our live, that is quit depressing and make people look like useless machines that will rot away in the end. This way of thinking is quite negative, and so are the results.
This scienctific perspective that lots of our wester people share, does lack emotion, spirituality, free-time and thinking. Some people are even imprisoned by science, which till these days can't explain everything. Which gives them a perspective on there life, which for them is hard to understand. These people often lack creativity, fantasy and emotions, which are very important for our life.
I think the positive message is very important and some things are said that need to be known by more people, but, as is mentioned in the film to be the sayings of the Dalai Lama (or however you write it), one shouldn't wait for nor believe in prophecy's and wait stuff out, one should try to see what one can do, right here right now.
That's an interesting point, because the movie does not really say that we have to wait for another religion. The movie try's to challange other people to think for them self's, and show them that you don't have to look at everything to critical, which closes our mind. The movie in my perspective showed, that the most important place to find the truth, is to search inside yourself. And i think the movie clearly challange people to think and discuss these subjects that where forbidden to speak about not so long ago.
Until now, it's just way new-agey to me.
If i look at it with a skeptical mind, yes it clearly is. But on the other hand, our society needs new impulses, new explanation for why life is like we experience it. On one hand it's to much inspired by new age, even a little to much. But on the other hand, i can see how they try show you. How science and spirituality are telling the same things, but only the language differs.
Nowadays there are LOTS of newage groups, who just try to find a new perspective which is able make the scientific perspective more a life and instead of religion they try to motivate people to become spiritual, so they have not really a need for religion.
It doesn't adress the real problems humanity is dealing with right now, such as the competitive reality that is destroying us, nor does it come with any solutions.
Hmmm, i wouldn't say that so easily. I mean the main problem is our mental, psychological state of mind. Lots of people are overloaded and can't function properly anymore. They are so sick and depressed and urgently need help. So promoting spirituality and motivate these people to find out who they truly are, will change there perspective on life and gives them lots of rest. But the scientific and pessemistic perspective on spirituality, let people run away from them selfs and become even more sick, which very sick negative results.
For me, it's just too impractical.
Your right, but does it matter. On the moment there are severall movies out, who try to stimulate to find your own personal truth. They try to challenge people to change there mind, and find there own truth and to experiment wit it, to see if it suits them. It doesn't have to be practical yet, but in order to find a much satisfying world view, we must first start to think different then we are used to do. I mean it's not hard to see that if a person does always what he always does, that he then always will receive what he always received.
Like a new religion thing, creating emotional solis for those who require it
Although religion does has some positive elements, it has proven many many times that it doesn't work. Instead of religion, i prefer individual spiritual teachings, like those from buddhism. Ones people see the importance of spirituality and how important it is to be conscious of one self, then i believe they can reach a point which to me sounds as one of the most important goals we should realise.
Confronting yourself with reality, that the world is filled with suffering everywhere, that there's problems we don't understand (yet), the ego problems that are destroying us all, that we are manipulating and feeding off of each other, suffering with it, thus sacrificing some of yourself, and trying to identify the root causes and doing something about them, to me, is real enlightenment.
Sounds a bit negative or let say dualistic. Where there is suffering there is healing, where there are problems are solutions, where there is the ego there is also a soul. But as long we imprisoned in dualistic thought patterns, we can't see the world for what it really is, and thus makes us blind.
The insight that the suffering in the world does not allow for us to waste another second feeling bad that going into the real deal makes others shut us out because we remind them of the things they don't like about themselves.
And if we would had a more collective spiritual word perspective, we would understand this and so we can change for example the hours we work in a day. I guess this also is good for the country's where there are people who can't find a job, can work those hours that the the already working poeple spend to much on it.
Shutting down from the collective reality (wich is denial), looking for the real answers, making you ever lonely and unhappy.
Yes it does, but it also creates joy and very exciting moments wants you reached that conclusion, that it doesn't really matter that you have a different perspective on life. I for example have my own perspective, which is for a big part, not scientific. Because i can't explain everything with science yet, so i fill in the gaps that are unexplainable till i find better explanations. So now i then i change my mind a bit on different subjects if i find better explenations that make even more sense.
I guess not everyone is made for denial the collective reality, i see some people who have a great problem with it. But i think, that these people who deny the collective reality are needed. These individuals then do denial, will encounter many struggles but also find out things with they never could have understand if they didn't had denied the collective reality.
I'm getting pretty sick of ET's and so called enlightenment surrounded by all kinds of magic hocus pocus new age crap.
So do i! But these new age people are not talking about new things. Actually there thoughts are based on many old philosophy's that where some of them where a pretty succes. Sadly enough, there seems to be a group of people who deny reality in such a way that they get pretty psychotic, but instead of declaring them mad, we should help them to find back the collective reality. Most people who have lost touch with the collective, start to lose reffering points on which they can base or interpret reality, and they really need help because although sometimes they say that they are happy, but i have spoken with some. But they always seem to be depressive if you learn them to know a little better.
Quantum physics theories.. very intersting.. yes! astounding! But what does it change? What does it do for us?
In the end it could be a worldview on which far out the most individuals can agree, which could for example mean a change in our collective consciousnes. Because most people have become quit scientific and feel the need for proof, quantum physics is able to explain things in a less spooky way, so they can agree more easily with it. And for the newage guru's there message also get's explained. So quantum physics for me, combines science as well as spirituality.
All it does is try to scientifically explain things we already know because we just do, because we feel it, that don't need to be scientifically explained imho
From you own perspective, yes it would not be neccesary. But others are screaming for a more explainable explanation that does satisfy them on a deeper level. Don't forget that there many people these days, who never really thought about these things for all kinds of reasons.
More technology? In THIS world? Do you WANT things to get even more out of hand? The usual problem with so called "brilliant" inventors and scientists is, imho, that they are so pleased with themselves and their own "brilliance" and vastly lack emotional and psychological development.
If we would come more satisfied with our collective reality, then in my perspective we don't need more. Because one who truly knows him self, doesn't expect to much from the material world. It even could become less important.
No, it is our lack of PSYCHOLOGICAL knowledge that needs to be focussed on.. how our own minds work. The hard thing about this is that we will have to accept things about our behaviour that we may not like (but behaviour is something you control and is therefor not nescessarily identified with you as a person or your personality as being unchangeable). The mindstate of being a fixed rather then emergent personality causes us to feel like failure when we face our demons. The competitive mindstate of feeling like failure when proven wrong. We know NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING in this area..
Yes, i do believe we are in need of MORE psychological knowledge, but therefore spiritual knowledge also becomes important. Especiallyu because it is in our nature to have some spiritual senses.
I think we know nothing, first because we never had the knowledge to know anything at all. But thanks to the internet etc, we humans are for the first time able to read and investigate those things WE would like to research. In the past this wasn't allowed, only for this conversation i would have ended on a pile of wood that's get lighted with my on it and a screaming croud around me, who would love to see me die.
What the bleep do we know?? (Another film with very promising title wich falls under the quantum physics category and I think is just impractical and distracting from problems at hand).
I say we know NOTHING!!!! Nothing that matters at least..
What the bleep do we know is one of those other documentary's who try's to motivate people to start researching the debts our our true nature and reality. And since the cage that was build by religion has opened his doors, we are know able to start investigating things to know at least somethings!
Furthermore there's the established corporations, banks, governments, those that are feeding off of the rest (and think they are doing good and that they should prevent change at all cost, again competitive reality, emotional and psychological poverty) that somewhere realize people being psychologically unknowledgeable and screwed up is what keeps this structure intact, cleverly fighting anyone that knows, that is enlightened and that tries to bring about change and strength of character and independance of mind in the exploited, fearful and extremely dependantfeeling human.
And why do they exist? Why are they so evil? What makes them not wanting to change. Because they are dualistic, and are unable to see the need for a more loving civilisation. So because that reasons it becomes even more important to let the mainstream people think about quantum physics, spirituality etc. Because if the collective reality starts to change in a more positive way, these banks and evil doers will allso follow.
No magic here folks.. no shortcuts.. no easy ways to understanding (enlightenment).. just real problems.. I'm sorry
Hehehe, that's fun. Because i see and experience magic here, i see the shortcuts and easy ways to understand enlightenment. But they can't be seen or understood, if you don't allow yourself to have fantasy/dreams or if you keep saying no or impossible.
In the end we should stop thinking dualistic, because somethings that are good for you, are therefore wrong for me. If you only want positivenes, then you must fear for the rest of the time for negativity. So negative and positive do need each other to make up the whole.
So my conclusion is that we need to start balance the dualistic nature of our collective reality, because you can't reject for example darkness well it is just there in our very nature of reality. So there is darkness and light, the light needs the darkness to become visible, and the darkness does need the light to exist.
So science and spirituality are in fact dualistic, so since we can't reject one of the two, we must look it as a whole.
Damn, i am ready for the complaints of some skeptical minds
I kind of always looked at people that hold on to science as.. well.. kind of faithless. As having other issues that need to be cleared first, and also as a terrible victim of competitive reality. Like they need (some other person) to prove what they feel.. what I feel doesn't have to be proven.. that I feel it is all the proof there is to me. They must have such a negative self-image and worldview (because of society and competitive reality, I will keep repeating this 
