STOP scapegoating Timothy Leary and the Counterculture!!

[GOD]

"for my reckoning it is the fungi most referred to--albeit cryptically--in mythologies!"

I dont realy agree with that , but i do agree with the rest of what you said in your last post .

What about Soma ? And please dont tell me that it and all the drug references in the bible are references to mushrooms , or offer rational proof or arguments ...... please .

 

[zezt]

"for my reckoning it is the fungi most referred to--albeit cryptically--in mythologies!"

I dont realy agree with that , but i do agree with the rest of what you said in your last post .

What about Soma ? And please dont tell me that it and all the drug references in the bible are references to mushrooms , or offer rational proof or arguments ...... please .

Hey GOD

So tell me first why you dont agree with the first part

Thanks for agreeing other stuff 8)

Soma?

Have you read any of Gordon Wasson regarding hints what Soma could have been? Some of the references he gives sound very like a mushroom. The amanita muscaria also known as the Fly Agaric

Then we have Terrence McKenna. He doesn't entirely agree with Wasson, mainly because of the ambiguous effects of the amanita.
So he is leaning more towards the psilocybe cubensis which grows in cattle dung. And sees the Hindu reference for the 'sacred cow' as a remnant of this 'lost' mushroom religion

Now, other researchers choose various plants as possible source of Soma.

I have wondered about this, and wonder if it coulda been a MIXTURE of various plants and fungi...? I mean why does it have to be one thing. it MAY, but then again....I dont know

I can see value in all of their research. For one thing we know for sure. Whatever soma was , it was some kind of psychoactive substance ingested for spiritual purposes!

I lean more towards fungi because of their ease of use. You just pick them and dry them out. Like WE do. How much more savvy would people have been without TVs and all the busy passtimes of us moderns, and much more Land and flora, and time to forage?

I have just read Sacred Mushroom of Visions: Teonanacatl, by Ralph Metzner (try and gett it man. You can get real cheap copies in great condition from Amazon! like I did)
And there are lots of different varieties of psychedelic mushrooms.

As for the Bible. Have you read The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, by John M Allegro?

Allegro was one of a group of experts in anceint languages chosen to study the Dead Sea Scrolls. And he found that very much so, there are secret references hidden in the literary text of the Bible in transliterations, puns, use of 'dead' languages, like Sumerian, etc etc etc. And that this hidden knowledge was for the initiated to understand. The others believed the superiofical morality tales of the first layer.
Like an onion he shows the layers of meaning as he peels away into the script!

And he shows how that device is related to other ancient mythologgies, and their symbolism like the pagan myth of Dionysos, the god of 'wine'

It is a profound book!

 

[magickmumu]

I have wondered about this, and wonder if it coulda been a MIXTURE of various plants and fungi...? I mean why does it have to be one thing. it MAY, but then again....I dont know.

Some form of ayahuasca maybe?

 

[tryptonaut]

I just wanted to give an opininion on the original question (sorry I haven't read the whole thread, it was tiresome after about two pages...)

Although I think Leary might have overdone it a little, I think he has been more valuable to the counter-culture than Hofmann. If it had been for Hofmann and Wasson et al. then the whole LSD/psilocybin thing would have stayed a purely academic thing with maybe some impact on psychriatrist research. To make it a movement and change society it needed some crazy populism. Oh, and the CIA who gave lsd to volunteer students
Revolution always needs sacrifice, the poor souls who tripped out on too much lsd in the wrong setting were necessary to make a psychedelic impression on the whole western world in the 70's.
I think we have had another psychedelic movement in the late 80ies early 90's with lots of weed and mdma and also lsd and shrooms etc. This time it was quieter but with not much less effect... we need to move it on, and I wouldn't mind for another Leary who sparked the whole thing a little

 

[zezt]

I have wondered about this, and wonder if it coulda been a MIXTURE of various plants and fungi...? I mean why does it have to be one thing. it MAY, but then again....I dont know.

Some form of ayahuasca maybe?

I am not sure. maybe. But when you listen to the references in the vedas, Wasson shows, in comparison with Siberian reports of use and symbolism and effects of Fly Agaric (because Siberian shamans used the amanita muscaria!), etc it seems very convincing that muchroom may have been it, if not some part of a mixture anyhow.

 

[GOD]

"So tell me first why you dont agree with the first part"

Because its obviously not true . The knowledge you have is out dated . Wasson is still a hero but its generaly recognised that he went much to far with his theorys and that the effects of soma could not possibly be interpreted as being caused by flyagaric . The whole flyagaric thing is a myth . There are much better theorys that fit the discription better than flyagaric . Wasson was a middle class banker with no anthropological or drug experience .

The same goes for J.Allegro . He was / is a genius and one of the best bible scolars that there ever was . He noticed things in the bible that he interpreted as drug use a few years after wasson wrote his book and just jumped on the band wagon and anounced that it must have all been flyagaric . If flyagaric is so good why isnt it a popular "drug" now ? And why do the most people who take it only take it once ? They dont grow in sinai either and claiming that there was a 3 or 4 thousand year jewish cult that the jews today dont know anything about is absolute shit . Especialy as their scolars admit that there are references to cannabis in the bible . And please tell me how a cult like that could import so many flyagaric from the Lebanon then and now there are next to non there . Its the same with soma , flyagaric is rare in india and so are Psilocybe Cubensis . Its all just people picking stupid ideas up and then trying to find things to justify them . After Allegro had his first thoughts about it he went back and combed the bible again and added all things red to his list of "proofs" and used other obscure bible references to "cement" his theory . Just because a sacreficed goat has red meat and sometimes tufts of white goat hair stuck to that meat definately isnt a secret reference to the redness and the white tufts on a flyagaric . There are much better candidates like P.Harmals and DMT = an Ayahuasca analog for the sacraments in the bible and for soma .

Remember the stone age , the bronze age , the iron age ? The indians had a cow age = cows were the backbone of their survival and if McKennas theory was true why are there next to no psilocibin mushrooms in India today ? Because the Indians collect the fresh cow shit and use it to make fire with or to plaster the walls of their houses with for instance .... before any mushrooms can grow on it . Psilocybin mushrooms also have nothing red about them and if they were soma why did soma have to be obtained from the mountains when the cows live all over India ?

"secret references"

Were they about 4 dimensional DNA monoatomic mushrooms with magnetic fields ????

"Like an onion he shows the layers of meaning as he peels away into the script! "

He talks in self substantiating circles .

Yes their works are interesting ..... but not infalable .

"the references in the vedas"

The interpretations you have read about what is in the vedas . If you read the original vedas its not hard to see much more proof that soma was an Ayahuasca analog imported over the mountains from persia where a plant called Hoama grew ........ wich is P.harmala an oral activator of DMT . There are also much more sources of DMT than there are Psychedelic mushrooms and they are every where exept on the poles .

There are only about 3 - 4 or 5 storys about Siberian use of flyagaric and they come from political prisoners whos storys were sencored by the russians . And those storys contradict eachother and are not taken seriously by serious anthropologists today . The whole modern Flyagaric story is a twisting of half facts and sick speculation .

If you have a little patience Jack Herrer is going to release a book about the bible being full of secret references to Flyagaric wich will destroy his reputation because he says all references to fruit , trees , pyramids , goats , sheep , dear and virgins are realy references to mushrooms . I`ve read it and it made me feel sick , i had to force myself to read on after the first few pages because what he says is so idiotic and confused . He just takes Wasson and Allegros fantasys and adds even more obscure selfsubstantiating theorys based on ignorance and bad Aramaic , Hebrew and Greek translations. If you read it you might start to understand that the theorys of all three of them are improbable and illogical .

Maybe you should read George Orwell again .

 

[spice]

@Vlad- After reading up on the subject a bit, I must say, you have been taken in by Illuminati-conspracist rantings......


All forms of so-called 'mono-atomic gold' that have been investigated have turned out to be solutions of GOLD CHLORIDE, which is a neurotoxin.....


Perhaps you would like to refute this, but after reading a lot on the subject, I can tell you that you are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out there in Pluto orbit, man.

Good Luck, you are going to need it.

 

[zezt]

"So tell me first why you dont agree with the first part"

Because its obviously not true . The knowledge you have is out dated . Wasson is still a hero but its generaly recognised that he went much to far with his theorys and that the effects of soma could not possibly be interpreted as being caused by flyagaric . The whole flyagaric thing is a myth . There are much better theorys that fit the discription better than flyagaric . Wasson was a middle class banker with no anthropological or drug experience .

You call me outdated. But I am open about my sources. What sources are you using that contradicts my sources?
Wasson was a big fat cat banker right. But wrong, he did have shroom experience. In fact his experience highlighted in a famous magazine was first time people got to know about an actual existing mushroom religion!

[quote:w9di8dyr]The same goes for J.Allegro . He was / is a genius and one of the best bible scolars that there ever was . He noticed things in the bible that he interpreted as drug use a few years after wasson wrote his book and just jumped on the band wagon and anounced that it must have all been flyagaric

.

errr, who is saying he 'just jumped on the bandwagon? Sources please.

If flyagaric is so good why isnt it a popular "drug" now ? And why do the most people who take it only take it once ? They dont grow in sinai either and claiming that there was a 3 or 4 thousand year jewish cult that the jews today dont know anything about is absolute shit .

Good point first bit. IF it were so entrnched in myth how come Fly Agaric isn't as popular as magic mushrooms? Yes I have been curious about that. I have never eat it. But have read that Siberian shamans have.
Maybe they grew there lin far off times when there were more trees? But again, I am really curious about your sources. I bet its that whats his name...errrrm Andy Lecher?

Especialy as their scolars admit that there are references to cannabis in the bible . And please tell me how a cult like that could import so many flyagaric from the Lebanon then and now there are next to non there .

Deforestation and change of climate...?

Its the same with soma , flyagaric is rare in india and so are Psilocybe Cubensis . Its all just people picking stupid ideas up and then trying to find things to justify them . After Allegro had his first thoughts about it he went back and combed the bible again and added all things red to his list of "proofs" and used other obscure bible references to "cement" his theory . Just because a sacreficed goat has red meat and sometimes tufts of white goat hair stuck to that meat definately isnt a secret reference to the redness and the white tufts on a flyagaric . There are much better candidates like P.Harmals and DMT = an Ayahuasca analog for the sacraments in the bible and for soma .

In a way, although I find exploring about this fascinating. The essential point is the use of entheogens by ancient peoples whcih influenced mythology.

Remember the stone age , the bronze age , the iron age ? The indians had a cow age = cows were the backbone of their survival and if McKennas theory was true why are there next to no psilocibin mushrooms in India today ? Because the Indians collect the fresh cow shit and use it to make fire with or to plaster the walls of their houses with for instance .... before any mushrooms can grow on it . Psilocybin mushrooms also have nothing red about them and if they were soma why did soma have to be obtained from the mountains when the cows live all over India ?

Good point. But I wonder at what stage of compost did they collect cow dung. I am not that au fe with the actual time the shroom appear through the dung? are you?
I have always though that the character of Siva is somehow connected with Psilocybin because of the bit about his blue neck.

"secret references"

Were they about 4 dimensional DNA monoatomic mushrooms with magnetic fields ????

"Like an onion he shows the layers of meaning as he peels away into the script! "

He talks in self substantiating circles .

Yes their works are interesting ..... but not infalable .

"the references in the vedas"

The interpretations you have read about what is in the vedas . If you read the original vedas its not hard to see much more proof that soma was an Ayahuasca analog imported over the mountains from persia where a plant called Hoama grew ........ wich is P.harmala an oral activator of DMT . There are also much more sources of DMT than there are Psychedelic mushrooms and they are every where exept on the poles .

There are only about 3 - 4 or 5 storys about Siberian use of flyagaric and they come from political prisoners whos storys were sencored by the russians . And those storys contradict eachother and are not taken seriously by serious anthropologists today . The whole modern Flyagaric story is a twisting of half facts and sick speculation .

If you have a little patience Jack Herrer is going to release a book about the bible being full of secret references to Flyagaric wich will destroy his reputation because he says all references to fruit , trees , pyramids , goats , sheep , dear and virgins are realy references to mushrooms . I`ve read it and it made me feel sick , i had to force myself to read on after the first few pages because what he says is so idiotic and confused . He just takes Wasson and Allegros fantasys and adds even more obscure selfsubstantiating theorys based on ignorance and bad Aramaic , Hebrew and Greek translations. If you read it you might start to understand that the theorys of all three of them are improbable and illogical .

Maybe you should read George Orwell again .[/quote:w9di8dyr]

I am sure I have read real accounts about use of Fly Agaric by shamans in notes I took from Wasson's book. But again GOD. Please give us a run down on where you are getting your info from please.

 

[Vlad]

@Vlad- After reading up on the subject a bit, I must say, you have been taken in by Illuminati-conspracist rantings......


All forms of so-called 'mono-atomic gold' that have been investigated have turned out to be solutions of GOLD CHLORIDE, which is a neurotoxin.....


Perhaps you would like to refute this, but after reading a lot on the subject, I can tell you that you are WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY out there in Pluto orbit, man.

Good Luck, you are going to need it.

You are wrong. You base yourself on internet information in the public domain. You are not just going to find the procedures to produce the real white powder of gold that is inert and NOT a chloride like that. Besides I have learned from a professional chemist how to make a gold product that is totally inert to acids and bases and has definite spiritual effects that are not brain damage. I know enough about the subject to defend what I know but I'm not gonna bother here. It's not the forum for it.

 

[druglessdouglas]

become aware of chi. you are immersed in a vast lake of it. if you were swimming in a lake of water would you want a can of coke?

 

[Vlad]

What GOD said regarding Soma is interesting since I just found out pomegranate also contains a lot of DMT (similar content to MHRB) in it's root bark. And it's a tree from the same region where syrian rue is native from.

 

[buffachino]

Discussion #1
Tim had his heart in the right place, although he became somewhat hypocritical of his own doctrine in creating a culture just as marred by ego as the one he hoped to supersede. By making an elitist and somewhat arrogant approach, while disseminating psychedelics as a cure all solution to the addiction of self, he kind of did it in for those who explored the experience in a more existentially and experientially holistic approach, that didn’t just rely on psychoactive self medication as the sole means of journeying into realms hidden by egoism.
It seems from a revisionist perspective, that he closed more doors than he opened.
Although he was entirely apt in his denunciation of the tenets of a domineering culture, the plastic and inane nature of the education system and the repression of the rights of mankind to be free in mind as in body.
Although, I don’t think that we would have learned as much as we have if it were retained in a sterile, inflexible and frivolous medical research setting.

But for all intensive purposes, Tim deserves admiration for his struggle, if not only against himself.

Discussion #2
I think there may be some substance in the ancient art of alchemy, far short of the free transfiguration of any base metal into gold, but a deeper understanding of chemical relationships thus far unexplored by the hands of science maybe. I think it an area of investigation indeed, and we should be careful not to close our minds to it, no matter the blurred and disreputable emanations scattered throughout the tomes of history. I don’t think it’s healthy to deem something inane or preposterous simply on a scant modern perspective without holistic research and the renunciation of a culturally biased approach.

Discussion #3
An ayahuasca type brew sounds more convincing and feasible than the widespread use of amanita, although there may have been a large number of analogues to a certain brew, and this may vary over geological ranges. But were speculating about it being a DMT/harmala brew to the same degree as one would to suppose amanita for the throne of soma.

Conclusion;
This is very much off topic people, from Tim Leary, to monatomic gold, to speculations on the root of soma. Oh well, I guess we need somewhere as a dumping ground for stoned ramblings. Please, feel free to continue!

 

[zezt]

Discussion #1
Tim had his heart in the right place, although he became somewhat hypocritical of his own doctrine in creating a culture just as marred by ego as the one he hoped to supersede. By making an elitist and somewhat arrogant approach, while disseminating psychedelics as a cure all solution to the addiction of self, he kind of did it in for those who explored the experience in a more existentially and experientially holistic approach, that didn’t just rely on psychoactive self medication as the sole means of journeying into realms hidden by egoism.
It seems from a revisionist perspective, that he closed more doors than he opened.
Although he was entirely apt in his denunciation of the tenets of a domineering culture, the plastic and inane nature of the education system and the repression of the rights of mankind to be free in mind as in body.
Although, I don’t think that we would have learned as much as we have if it were retained in a sterile, inflexible and frivolous medical research setting.

yes, good reply. I felt that Tim became too obsessed with Eastern models. And the ideas of being able to transcend ego, and all that. Rather than a more earth spiritual feel of Indigenous understanding.
I also REALLY gelled with his insights about the 'plastic studio set reality'. Which is really seeing the falsness and of despirited civilization. For me THE most important insight. That and seeing the awesomeness of real home, nature.

[quote:16z3m0cd]But for all intensive purposes, Tim deserves admiration for his struggle, if not only against himself.

Yes. I love how he wanted EVERYONE to have access to psychedelic experience!

Discussion #2
I think there may be some substance in the ancient art of alchemy, far short of the free transfiguration of any base metal into gold, but a deeper understanding of chemical relationships thus far unexplored by the hands of science maybe. I think it an area of investigation indeed, and we should be careful not to close our minds to it, no matter the blurred and disreputable emanations scattered throughout the tomes of history. I don’t think it’s healthy to deem something inane or preposterous simply on a scant modern perspective without holistic research and the renunciation of a culturally biased approach.

I personally believe all that is superfluous and the vital experience is not some alchemical process, which reminds me of the Eastern shell game trip. But....psychedelic experience. What other experience holds as much awesome fascination for us...? what....waht?

Discussion #3
An ayahuasca type brew sounds more convincing and feasible than the widespread use of amanita, although there may have been a large number of analogues to a certain brew, and this may vary over geological ranges. But were speculating about it being a DMT/harmala brew to the same degree as one would to suppose amanita for the throne of soma.

GOD seems to have gone for lunch on this one---ie., no response back.
What about the 'pissing' references, springs to mind? though you can do same with the magic mushrooms.

Conclusion;
This is very much off topic people, from Tim Leary, to monatomic gold, to speculations on the root of soma. Oh well, I guess we need somewhere as a dumping ground for stoned ramblings. Please, feel free to continue!

[/quote:16z3m0cd]

I think the MUSHROOM will keep its entheogenic throne in our imaginations mainly because of its similar shape to the atomic mushroom cloud. The assocation is very very deep. One way the healing, the other total destruction

 

[spice]

I have an open mind, to a certain degree, but if someone is going to make outrageous claims, they should expect to be asked to substantiate these claims with some degree of specificity, and not recede into a turtle shell of 'this isn't the place to discuss it'.....


An open offer to you, Vlad......lay out the synthesis for me here, exactly how you did it...what you claim it to be, and I'll give you an open mind, and a receptive ear. But your claims are somewhat shrouded, and I can't see the reason for the mystery.....when someone has the real truth, and they feel strongly enough to allude to it in forum discussion, they lay it out in the open, in my opinion.

All the information I am finding, and I mean *all* of it is basically shit like this:


"humans are actually a slave race created 200,000 years ago to mine monoatomic gold that creates exotic powers for alien beings from the 10th planet, the overlords of which are now remembered by mankind as ancient Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian and Hebrew gods."

my mind can only open so much......

so....

 

[GOD]

Please read what i said again and calm down . I didnt say that you are out dated , i said that "knowledge" is out dated . And i have the "Life" magazine that you are talking about . I`ve been studying the subject since about 1970 when i got into esoteric things . I cant sit here and prove everything i say every time someone comes and doubts it . Sorry but either read a LOT more books about it and go to psychonaut conferences and ask people who you can acept as being experts and they will confirm what i say . Thats what i do , thats one of the reasons why i know what i said . I have about 200 drug books next to me and several thousand drug magazines . Plus over 40 gigs of drug related info on my computer . I said jump on the band wagon because as i said he wrote his theorys a few years after Wasson made his discoverys and it was popularly acepted as fact at that time .

"But wrong, he did have shroom experience"

He was a micophobe untill he met his Russian wife and learned better . I know about his experiences with Maria Sabina and Hofmann through reading , watching documentarys and listening to lectures by Hofmann and others . But his mushroom taking experience was extremly small .

"IF it were so entrnched in myth how come Fly Agaric isn't as popular as magic mushrooms?"

Because the myths are all modern , or mainly from those sources i was talking about . Its not so popular because of exactly that , the storys about flyagaric are mainly myth and the storys about Psilos are every day knowledge for thousands of years . The effects of Psilos are considered to be positive by most users , the few people who try flyagaric usualy dont do it twice . The Lecher book you are talking about didnt interest me after i looked through it so i didnt buy it . Graves is also a bit confused , in the same way as Wasson and Allegro . I have had contact to Graves so i know what he thinks . I have asked him to write a book about all the drug references in the bible . All were unflexable middle class scholars and not anthropologists , biologists or drug experts .

"Deforestation and change of climate...? "

Read the bible and see . There were trees where the sahara dessert is but long before those times . Thats one of the problems that Wasson and Allegro had , they new nothing about mushroom biology . Today other confused writers say that the flyagaric came from the ceders of Lebanon , wich arent / werent ceders . Flyagaric grows in symbyosis with a few trees and not with ceders . Other more modern confused writers try to avoid the rareness of flyagaric in that area by saying the mushrooms were also Amanita Pantherina and P.Cubensis . But only because they are not being objective . No one would mistake the effects of Amanitas with Psilos ...... unless they hadnt taken both .

"The essential point is the use of entheogens by ancient peoples whcih influenced mythology. "

= The essential point is the use of entheogens by ancient peoples influenced mythology. YES but it wasnt all mushrooms and certainly not all flyagaric . Try it and you will understand why .

"I wonder at what stage of compost did they collect cow dung. I am not that au fe with the actual time the shroom appear through the dung? are you? "

Cow shit gets used fresh to daub walls with and dried to burn . When its dry no Psilocybe mushrooms can grow on it as they need water . The mushroom myceleum needs time to grow through the shit , i dont know how long , but you used to be able to order cow pats in a piza box from ami land and they said it took at least 2 weeks if i remember right .

Study more please , as an English person you should have heard the expression "A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing".



"You are wrong. You base yourself on internet information in the public domain. You are not just going to find the procedures to produce the real white powder of gold that is inert and NOT a chloride like that. Besides I have learned from a professional chemist how to make a gold product that is totally inert to acids and bases and has definite spiritual effects that are not brain damage. I know enough about the subject to defend what I know but I'm not gonna bother here."

Vlad , prove it . And you have your knowledge from the net and esoteric books . AND DONT INSULT SPICE . He has proven for many years that he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about and has never been locked up by his parents and 2 judges because of mental delusion like you have . Sorry for being so direct .

"What GOD said regarding Soma is interesting since I just found out pomegranate also contains a lot of DMT (similar content to MHRB) in it's root bark. And it's a tree from the same region where syrian rue is native from."

Graves talks about there being DMT containing Acacias used as an oracle in Palastine . DMT is everywhere , in trees , bushes and grasses . There are even psychoactive tryptamines in frog secretions , and also in the human brain .

" think there may be some substance in the ancient art of alchemy"

It has much to do with what the roots of modern chemistry are based on . Remember what Drugless said about Alcohol ?

"I don’t think it’s healthy to deem something inane or preposterous simply on a scant modern perspective without holistic research and the renunciation of a culturally biased approach."

Me neither , who does ? No serious scientist would . That was Wassons , Allegros , Heinrichs and Graves problem .

"But were speculating about it being a DMT/harmala brew to the same degree as one would to suppose amanita for the throne of soma. "

No . You are all speculating about things that you havent studyed and that modern scientists doubt for good reasons . There are much more indication that Soma was an Ayahuasca than it was Flyagaric . The man reasons that Flyagaric is taken into acount at all is because of Wasson and Allegro .

Allthough i do defend Leary for me some of the things he said and did made me sometimes think that he was to some extent a middle class prick who had little experience of real life .

" Indigenous understanding. "

Indigenous people dont understand , they believed .

"What other experience holds as much awesome fascination for us...? what....waht? "

What = LIFE . What = DEATH .

"GOD seems to have gone for lunch on this one"

No GOD is on his back , very weak , cant eat exept liquidised things he has to force down , very depressed , not able to sleep more than 4 hours a night and hardly able to see at the moment . Hes also working on a master plans to get legalisation in between .

 

[Vlad]

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ORMUS/pre ... allas1.htm

That lecture is probably the best thing to read about monoatomic elements to begin.

I also already said how I made the white powder of gold.
I bought gold leaves, of the kind which were made by electrochemically depositing gold on some kind of gel layer.
I put these in acetone and some trisodiumphosphate, and that destroyed the leaf by dissolving the gel and leaving me with microfine gold dust in the acetone/tsp mix.
I then made a solution of about 400 ml distilled water with some spoons of trisodiumphosphate dissolved in it, and added the acetone/tsp mix.
Then I boiled for a couple of hours in a stainless steel pot on an electric burner.
And adjusted the pH with vinegar to neutralize the solution.
A white fluffy precipitate started to appear.
I let this settle, and then decanted the trisodiumphosphate solution, added distilled water to the mix up to the original volume, mix, let the precipitate settle again, and repeated this three times to 'wash' all the excess sodium phosphate and sodium acetate salts out, leaving me in the end with just the white precipitate.

The white precipitate is called by the names M-1, m-gold, gold ormus.
When you dry this precipitate in darkness at low heat it forms a dry powder.
David Hudson claims that the white powder is HAu. When annealed under an inert gas (some claim just heating in air works as well) it supposedly according to David Hudson forms monoatomic Au. He explains all the chemistry of it in the lecture I gave the link to. Mostly in part 3.
Other people claim the white precipitate is a sodium-gold complex.
The white precipitate could also be a gold hydroxide. Probably then a monoatomic hydroxide or diatomic hydroxide.
It could also be a hydrated form of monoatomic gold.
The thing is nobody seems to know for sure or want to tell exactly what the white powder is. The monoatomic theory is so far the most popular and seems best fitting.

Hudson claims the monoatomic gold, if charged (and this information is not found in his patent) has antigravitational properties and weighs only 4/9ths of the original weight. Very few people have been able to reproduce this claim if any. However Barry Carter does have a movie file on his website where he shows his white powder reacting to a magnet, offering some kind of proof that David Hudson's claim might be correct.

Hudson also claims the white powders of gold, rhodium and iridium have also definite healing abilities. This has experimentally been proven to be true for many people. Barry hosts several mailing lists with hundreds of members each, where they share experiences, and following the lists over the years I have come to notice many people seem to get a lot of benefit from the white precipitates.

The white powder of iridium has supposedly anti-gravity properties. It is claimed to exclude all force fields and can be made into a disk that will levitate off magnetic fields. Looks like possibly UFO technology.

 

[Vlad]

If you have volcanic sand or rock (dust) you can extract the monoatomic elements from it as well. It's rather easy.

Take about a handfull (or as much as you want to use) and dissolve it in a solution of NaOH or KOH of about the same quantity of NaOH/KOH pellets/grains as your sand or rock dust.

Then boil in a stainless steel pot for several hours.
Filter. Let cool down.
Then also adjust and neutralize the pH with HCl or vinegar until you see a white precipitate falling. It will be quite dirty as it will be mostly reacted silicates and calcium and magnesium and whatnot is in the rock.

When all of the precipitate has dropped, decant the solution. Take the precipitate and acidify with HCl. Add enough. The reason is the monoatomic elements which are mixed in the precipitate with undesired things do dissolve in HCl, while the precipite of silica (probably hydroxide) (the bulk of the dirty white precipitate) does not dissolve in HCl. Your HCl solution should turn greenish. Then you filter and keep the filtered solution but throw away the precipitate left.
Then you again ajust the pH with a dillute NaOH solution, upward this time. Once you reach pH 7 you will see the clean while precipitate of monoatomic elements to fall out of solution.
Do not go above pH 11 or heavy elements (lead etc) will also come out of solution. Most of the precipitate will be out by pH 9 anyway.
It takes vigorous stirring of the solution and careful titration of the pH to not overshoot your pH.
An easier solution which I use is to just use sodium bicarbonate. This never goes above 8.5 or so and drops nearly all of the white precipitate, without having to be careful or slow. You can just add the powder and stir.
Then let settle/decant/wash three times. Ingest wet (spoonfull or just some drops is fine) or dry.

You can also get monoatomic elements out of seawater or sea salt dissolved in water. It's even easier.

Here is a youtube movie of 10 minutes showing how to do it:

Basically you just raise the pH to about 10.5 and decant/wash.This also precipitates calcium and magnesium. You isolate the precipitate and then re-dissolve it by adjusting the pH to 12. Not all will dissolve but the monoatomic elements will. You then filter the solution, keep it, and throw away the remaining precipitate. Then you take the solution and adjust the pH with vinegar and you have your clean precipitate of monoatomic elements only.

 

[spice]

I read it.


Fascinating.


Where is David Hudson? Is my question....as a person trained in chemistry, I have to say he makes some pretty fantastic claims....and he does elaborate on the science a bit, as well....

So, how much of this stuff have you consumed, Vlad?

I am interested in learning more, from a scientific standpoint, as well as a psychonautic one....I would be VERY interested in trying it, if it produces the effects Hudson says it does.

However, I did not find the method you used to produce it in his writings. Where did you derive this synthesis?

I may actually investigate this, as a chemist....it's not illegal, so there are no real reasons not to, but I'd like to find out more.....perhaps I will do a search on some of the names he mentioned.

He is/ was working out of Texas, which is very close to me geographically.....

Particularly interesting to me were his comments on the superconductivity of
cells via iridium, etc...

What else do you have to say on this subject?

Do you know any others who have taken it?

 

[zezt]

Yes, too much ifnormtation. I am just saying that when we want ecstasy and we
go to the holy man and say how and he gives us a thousand words, then its too much info TMI

If we go to the 'alchemist' and he gives you a recipe that makes yer eyes cross or glaze over. its....? Yes, TMI

It is far far better to trust in Mother Earths vegetation, though I admit I admit, LSD's pretty cool too.

The essentail KEY is flow. Understanding (not believing clever dick GOD ) understanding flow. UNDERSTANDING how to live with Nature and other species

 

[Vlad]

I read it.


Fascinating.


Where is David Hudson? Is my question....as a person trained in chemistry, I have to say he makes some pretty fantastic claims....and he does elaborate on the science a bit, as well....

Answer: Mr. Hudson is not in production. There is some question about whether he will ever get into production.

David Hudson has faced a number of difficulties in getting his ORMUS production on line. When his plant was five days into a test run in the summer of 1998, a nitric acid tank sprang a leak. Fortunately Hudson had a concrete catch basin, which contained the acid. Unfortunately the emergency response team from the fire department sprayed foam on the acid instead of simply diluting it with water. The foam reacted with the acid and generated a large cloud of orange nitric acid gas. Several hundred people had to be evacuated from the surrounding area.

As a consequence of this event Hudson was fined and forced to think about moving his plant.

A short time after the acid leak Hudson had a heart attack. He had to have six bypasses. Subsequent to his surgery he had additional heart problems but seems to be doing well now.

His plant is still not ready for production. The delays cost him a great deal of money and this set him back even further. Now he must move his plant into a properly zoned area. In November of 2000 he sent out his last newsletter titled "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" in this newsletter he suggested that his plant has been "regulated out of existence".

So, how much of this stuff have you consumed, Vlad?

Enough...

However, I did not find the method you used to produce it in his writings. Where did you derive this synthesis?

Hudson his patent uses another method to produce WPG and is very time consuming. The method I use comes from another person who claims the material it produces is the same thing. It is popular on the net and also explained on the ORMUS forums and webpage.

Do you know any others who have taken it?

Many people have taken it.