question about dmt extraction

[scamie]

My ph meter didn't work in the lye solution.. so i just put in a lot of lye.. first pull was ok. second pull didnt work, i heated up the solution in my sink with hot water and added more lye... and it worked. thirth pull same recipe... but i endedup with alot of juice to work with... :?
but i used like 500 grams of lye to make a solution with water of.... 300/ 400 cc.. is that normal??? the lye has a veeeery high viscosity?? is that normal??
at the end i found some spice in the naptha in ny freezer... must be doing someting right!!
but.... i am happy next extr. 200gr mhrb!!!1 jippie

 

[scamie]

brew... strained it ...when it went cold... it didnt separate... heat and lye did the trick

 

[phalaris]

but i used like 500 grams of lye to make a solution with water of.... 300/ 400 cc.. is that normal???

ok, that can function as the stock basifying solution.
Store airtight, as it will absorb CO2 from the air and become cloudy.

A word of caution though, concentrated lye (NaOH) solutions must be handled with care. The soapy feeling you get on your hands when you handle it without much care is actually the cells of your hands reacting with the NaOH.

I value my eyes too, so I ware glasses when I do anything with concentrated lye.

What I do not quite get is that your pH meter doesn't work.. does it work to measure the acidic solutions, but when you get to the basic ones it stops working ?

What I don't mean, is to measure the pH of the stock lye solution. that pH is useless to measure. It can probably damage the electrode of your pH meter.

 

[scamie]

okeee, yes i measured the stock lye... damn it!!!!
Txs for that one it !! lol
But whats with the cloudiness?? Mine was already cloudy at the beginning and stayed that way..
And for safety.... i keep the vinegar within grasping range :wink:

 

[DMTripper]

hey I have a PH meter that needs to be calibrated. Is there any way for me to make a buffer solution out of distilled water and something?

 

[phalaris]

DMtripper:

What type of pH meter do you have ?

the kind that uses two buffesolutions (ie pH4 and pH7) or just one (ie pH7) solution ?

if you have the latter, washing the electrode with lots of taps water, and then with lots of distilled water should be enough to calibrate it to pH = 7

That said, buffer solutions aren't that expensive in grow shops ~10 euros.


--
scamie:

the cloudyness in the beginning (pH2- 7) is different from the cloudyness at pH 7 - 13.

Cloudyness at low pH are just left-over-particles from the filtration step, with good filtering the solution can become completely transparant (although you have to look directly at the sun to see it because it is dark red)

Cloudyness at pH >7 is from reactions that form a precipitate with the tannines and even some Calcium/Magnesium salts, escpecially when you did not use distilled water.

a fun little experiment:

Adding some clear NaOH solution to clear tapwater creates an instant cloudy solution

 

[scamie]

thxss man. I have the meter with the ph 7 solution.
Had my extraction in the freezer,, saw sometiny"white drops" in the naptha . I figured it was spice... poured of the naptha and put it under a fan........ and what happend was that the white stuff turned into transparant waterdrops. this dried and left nothing????? i did smell spice with the scent like as it was frozen .
That was a bit of a bummer!!! next extraction .... puntjes op de i.
What would happen if some condensation or something else brings water in the naptha..... damn...... i already know the answer while tryping the white stuf was the water !!! :?

 

[GOD]

Thanks for the sugestion . I`d be very interested to find out about the "marsfold tek" , and any other information on the subject , where can i find it please ?

The bit i said about using natron = backing powder = PH8 is wrong . There are two other types of natron that i know about . One is a "lauge" ( in german ) wich you can get from a builders market and the other is a purer chemical that you can get from the chemists . Both are over PH 8 . I just bought some "wound/wunde benzine" = petro ether for about 11 euros a liter . One liter of 96% alcohol cost 41 euros . The winemaking shop man has 100% alcohol for 45 Euros a liter . The only solvents that one should use are ones that evaporate fully . Try it by putting some on a mirror and see if it evaporates fully , or put it on a piece of silver foile and do the same and then put a flame under it an see if it smells bad . Smoking strange chemical residues is not a good idea . A lot of these "substitute" solvents have been deliberatly made unfit for human consumption by adding hard to get rid of chemicals so be VERY carefull .

Brewmaster you seem to know what you are talking about to me because you obviously have experience of actualy doing it . I am in the process of seeing that PH8 is WAY to low , it takes months . I´m now trying the stuff you get from the grow shop to raise the ph of your fertilizer mixture when you grow dope . It makes my litmus paper DARK blue = PH 10 so i hope its ok .


LOVE GOD

 

[DMTripper]

Thanks for the sugestion . I`d be very interested to find out about the "marsfold tek" , and any other information on the subject , where can i find it please ?

For info on extraction you should go here:
http://dmt-nexus.com/webackup/dmt-extr-bible.htm

There are several teks there and Marsfold tek is the first one.

Also check out the forum:
http://www.dmt-nexus.com/phpBB2/index.php

It has threads on extraction stuffed with information and the knowledge of very experienced people.

 

[GOD]

Thanx for the info it has helped a lot . We know what we have been doing wrong now .We had been using the method in "Psychedelic shamanism" by Jim DeKorne . Wich is making the P.Viridis part of ayahuasca , baseing it and then covering it with benzine and shaking it for MONTHS . The greasy gunk that came out had to be reextracted and was very little .

We now have to start again and try to rescue our last 2 trys . = We have a P.Viridis leaf and an Acacia Maidenii leaf "tea" wich were made at PH 4 to 5 , wich has then been based with natron = PH 8 and covered with petro ether . Has anyone any tips please ?

We also have a Peganum Harmala extract in the making wich is electric green / yellow and stains things red !? Has anyone any ideas about crystalising it out ? I realise it must be about the same procedure as with DMT , but has anyone got any special tips please ? We ( = me , A.J. watches and rolls joints ) have boiled it out 6 times with no ruber gloves on = i had my hands in it for 6 days and now feel GROTTY .

If you want to know how clean you work try making a P. Harmala extract and then turn the lights off and turn an ultra violet lamp on and be SHOCKED....... me and A.J. just tried it in his moms kitchen while she was away for the week... some dick head ( me ) had not been concentrating after smoking one of A.J.s pure grass joints and took the wooden spoon??? that he had been stiring a mixture up with and put it straight into another mixture wich was cooking next to it , the one was PH 4 and the other was PH 8 ?!?!?!........ = it foamed up and splatered all over the floor..... and me ..... A.J. went nuts hystericaly laughing and shouting "you fucking stupid fucking cunt , my fucking mom will fucking kill me" over and over again , i was gob smacked looking at a two and a half meter black guy on his hands and knees trying to wipe it all up in his armani suite as the most work i had ever seen him do before was to roll a joint or make a line of coke . THE WHOLE KITCHEN was covered in it , floresent drips and drops and hand / finger prints every where and ALL over our clothes to . His mom didnt notice anything , we are just praying that no one ever turns a U.V. light on there because she would throw a terminal wobbler ( = FLIP OUT and kill us ).


LOVE GOD

 

[GOD]

Some questions for Heartcore , Brewmaster , Phalaris or any one else who knows what they are talking about. To help us rescue our present mixtures .

Is lye (NaOH) the american word for natron ?

I have battery acid from a car suplies shop . It says its 38% h2so4 ( = 10 Euros a liter ), wich i take to mean sulphuric acid ? Can i use this dilution to make my PH 8 solution PH 2 again ? After the last episode in A.J.s moms kitchen i want to be a bit more carefull .

I am now trying canna PH+ from a grow shop = potasium carbonate + 12% potasium Hydroxide ( KOH ) to base with . Is this safe and / or strong enough ?

Can you sugest names of , and sources of suitable chemicals to basify things ? And safe reasons to say i need them for ?

Can i use amoniac to base it with as that is not hard to get ?


LOVE GOD

 

[DMTripper]

Is lye (NaOH) the american word for natron ?
D

No far from it! Lye is lye, NaOH! Look up natron on google or wikipedia before you ask here. Do some research, that's what people you are asking here have done.

You need to basify to Ph 13 so you need a strong base like lye. Some people have used KOH (pottasium hydroxide) but I haven't so I'm not advicing you to do so.
Basifying to Ph 8 does nothing for you.

And Ammonia doesn't do anything for you but to clean already extracted spice.

 

[GOD]

"Look up natron on google or wikipedia before you ask here"

Is that what you say to every body else here when they ask a question ? What would be the point in waisting hours or days of my time sifting through loads of google or erowid pages to sort the facts from the crap when there are people here who have the practical experience and knowledge to answer me as quick as you have , without being snoty . You falsly IMPLYED that you know the answers to my lye and other questions ? Why didnt you have the good maners to help me ? Why your agressive answers ? Do you want me to build a shrine to you and get on my knees and start praying first ? Sounds like you have a wounded little ego to me . I know what i can / could have done but i wanted to show that i am also human , that I dont have a swollen ego and can come down to your level and ask questions and not just explain things to people or rant . As i have said before i am sick of people having a go at me and everything i say . So i was trying to present myself a little less "hostile" than some people here think(?) i am . It was ment as a peace gesture . Giving my hand in peace and you seem to want to bite of my whole arm .

"Do some research, that's what people you are asking here have done."

If YOU had done your "research" you would have seen that the "best" PH to extract DMT at is suposed to be 8.8 . If you read all the info from http://dmt-nexus.com/webackup/dmt-extr-bible.htm you will find it . PH 13 just makes it faster , please accept my sincere apologys that i didnt know that . If you had done a little more research you would have seen that....Lye = NATRONLAUGE in german where it is widely known as .... NATRON = Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium Hydroxide , solution with either and water at about 120g/L. NaOH or 170g/L. KOH ( Natronlauge ist chemisch gesehen NaOH. Sie besteht also aus Natrium (nicht Natron) und Hydroxidionen ).

Natron = is a naturally occuring mixture of hydrated sodium carbonate (soda ash, Na2CO3·10 H2O) and about 17% sodium bicarbonate (baking soda, NaHCO3) along with small quantities of household salt (sodium chloride) and sodium sulfate.



Thank you for your help .

 

[DMTripper]

I think mentally unstable people like you shouldn't be messing around wiht DMT. And it's not for kids either so you have two reasons to stay out of it. Hahahahaha

But I'm glad you decided to do a lot of research after I told you to do so.

And BTW. A ph of 8.8 WAS supposed to be the best for extracting DMT but it is not. That info is outdated and wrong. There are good threads on extraction on the forum with the latest info and some very quick good teks.
But if you like to use 8.8 then I don't mind. I was just trying to help you out.

 

[GOD]

"I think mentally unstable people like you shouldn't be messing around wiht DMT. And it's not for kids either so you have two reasons to stay out of it. Hahahahaha"

Here is your answer http://lleo.aha.ru/na/en/editor

I have a friend who is a neurologist and psychiatrist . I make an apointment once a year to talk to him about my psychedelic experiences , the conclusions that i draw from them , and how it effects my life . He does not think that i am mentaly unstable or in any way mentaly unhealthy . Are you as honest as that with your self ? Or is your ego so swollen that you think that you are infalable and cant benefit from a professional opinion sometimes ? The sun does not shine out of your arse sweety . I think its obvious that you have no , or very little , experience of using DMT as if you had you would have learned something from it that others would see imediatly and from a distance . It would have taught you something wich you make obvious that you have not learned . You would have become at least a little riper . You would have learned humility . Most people who have had DMT a few times think that they are gods gift to the world like you ... untill the DMT shows them otherwise . Get a bit more experience before you out your self as an ignorant dickhead AGAIN .


"But I'm glad you decided to do a lot of research after I told you to do so"

Ivè been doing research on , and doing , extractions since 1978 , when there were no books on the subject generaly available or web sites where snoty kids can half read things that they dont understand and boast about like you . The knowledge that you think you have comes from books and web sites that have only been available for a few years . Who the fuck do you think spent lots of time and money finding out the things that you dont understand and take for granted now ? Pioneres like me . I have been extracting , and smoking , DMT with sucess since 1986 . Were you born then ? You didnt know what natron is and you were the one who recomended a web site that you now say is " outdated and wrong " . I am trying cold extraction methods at the moment that to my knowledge have not been described before anywhere . I try to find ways that are available to everyone cheaply and with as less danger as possible . What are you doing other than proveing that you are still wet behind the ears . What have you ever done that was inovative . I was the first person selling P.Viridis plants in europe as far as i know . Most of the people that sell them here now got their cuttings from me . What work have you done and given other people free ?

"But if you like to use 8.8 then I don't mind "

Thank you for your magnanimity . I´ve never used PH 8.8 . I used PH 8 , wich inspite of what you say works . I was not happy that it took months and am glad that i have learned something , for me new .


"I was just trying to help you out".

Thank you . Sorry if i missunderstood you but snotyness doesn`t help anyone . I wont reply to any reply you make to this post as that would mean you are to stupid to realise that you have just been burned beyond recognition .

Have a nice day .

 

[phalaris]

guys.

stop wasting energy fighting eachother over something you both seek.

about the pH stuff;

pH 8.7 is the pH with the highest freebase concentration. But as GOD mentioned, it takes forever to settle. This frustrated my earlier attempts to get some decent yield too, and I imagine we are just the 'tip of the iceberg'

So while it is still true that pH~9 should get you the spice, wasting a fraction of potential yield is a better option to have succes within one day.

apart from the goodies themselves, it just feel good to having made some stuff from scratch yourself.

At my new work, they carry a subscription copy of the magazine 'Make' , the whole magazine is packed with stories of geeky DIY projects, the pages just burst from enthusiasm. If there was a european/dutch version, I'm certain I would come up with a weird project

 

[Brewmaster]

I am now trying canna PH+ from a grow shop = potasium carbonate + 12% potasium Hydroxide ( KOH ) to base with . Is this safe and / or strong enough ?

Yes, you can use KOH (potassium hydroxide), some people use it exclusively because if you're leaving the rootbark in the bassified mix (ie. the quick way) then it is less likely that you will have a problem with emulsions like Scamie did. (I think it was Scamie). However, around here KOH is more expensive and requires a larger amount to get the same PH. I don't think I've ever heard of someone using a mix with p. carbonate so I don't know how that would work.

Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) is what I prefer. It is sold in the US in crystal form as drain cleaner. I got mine from the hardware store.

A PH of 13 or higher requires a lot of bassification but it's the only way I know.

 

[GOD]

DMTripper ,

SORRY .

I`m not a chemist . I didnt do chemistry at school . I am not sure if some bases ( or acids ) do reactions without changing the alkaloid to something else . I only knew the name potasium from potasium permanganate , wich is a disinfectant , poison and is used to make bombs , and potasium cyanide wich is also a poison and used in bombs . I remember the story of the saucerers aprentice and know that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing . I am very carefull after blowing my kitchen up twice.........while i was in it !!!!! I am a bit quick of the mark with agression because of all the slaging of i have had here , i was unsure if you were being "funny" with me .


Phalaris ,

Thanx , i apreciate the information . I wanted to find an easy , safe , cheep method of extraction . I made the mistake of thinking that natron was the same as natron lauge but weaker . Even with boiling the base solution it took months and i got very little out when i compaired it to what i would have got out of it if i had made ayahuasca . I was not aware that it was possible to do the whole process in a few hours , thats why i got a bit agressive . A.J.is just making experiments with a kilo of Acacia maidenii leaves , a kilo of Peganum Harmala seeds , a kilo of Psychotria Viridis leaves , four kilos of dry Tricheocerus Pachanoi and a few other things . He went absolutely nuts on me when he heard it should only take so little time .


Brewmaster ,

Thank you very much . This time i can see clearly that you are trying to help me . A few other times i was not sure , thats why i reacted so agressively to you . Hopefully it wont happen again . It seems to me that the canna stuff is not strong enough , i only have litmus paper , so i threw half a liter in a 6 or 7 liter solution amd nothing has happened that i can see !!!! I`m now going to try to get some Sodium Hydroxide and just try to saturate it ? I did try the PH meters from a grow shop a few years ago but they were not so reliable then and very expensive . I didnt like the permanent "eichen" , "einstellen" you had to do with acids and bases . The shit with litmus paper is it only goes up to 10 .


LOVE GOD

 

[phalaris]

GOD,

you're from Germany right ?
If you have trouble finding a good but affordable pH meter maybe this one from www.conrad.de can help. It has a probe on a wire, so it can measure inside bottles too. The order number is: 127745 - 89

another thing or two:

[..] I am not sure if some bases ( or acids ) do reactions without changing the alkaloid to something else . I only knew the name potasium from potasium permanganate , wich is a disinfectant , poison and is used to make bombs , and potasium cyanide wich is also a poison and used in bombs . I remember the story of the saucerers aprentice and know that a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing . I am very carefull after blowing my kitchen up twice.........while i was in it !

Sorry for my nitpicking, but potassium cyanide is not suitable for 'making bombs' and both potassium cyanide and potassium permanganate have a zillion other uses in industry and research. Good to hear you're more carefull in future experiments though, hope you didn't get too hurt when the stuff went kaboom ?

The bad stigma 'chemistry industry' has, has been earned through many years of careless use of resouces and handling of waste streams. But a lot has changed in the last +15 years. Nowdays (at least in western countries) the fumes and streams coming off industry factories are often cleaner than the incoming streams or air. Anyone noticed how the forests no longer suffer from acid rain ?

..and you're right, partial knowledge is far more dangerous than shared/full knowledge. So let's keep educating the world. I think you do a great job at stirring things up, and make us think at the same time. I try to contribute by providing (often tech) related information and pointing to the novelty of it.

In my opnion, science in general (and chemistry in this case) is about beauty and fun
The same technology that makes it possible to make bombs, also makes is possible to make fireworks.. but then we call it pyrotechnics.

potassium colored flame:

fireworks in the sky:

fireworks in the sky:

lucy in the sky:

 

[GOD]

Phalaris ,

Thanx for the very nice / good answer . I will check the conrad PH meter you mentioned . I dont want to argue or pick hairs with you either but most? / any? poisonous things that "terorists / freedom fighters" can get hold of get put in "improvised explosive devices" to make them more deadly . I have just finished a job making and translating a short video for a company ( http://www.mechanical-demining.com/ and http://www.krohn.de ) who work for the united nations disposing of mines and bombs in kosovo , germany and mosambiq . We were invited to a private conference , held by a canadian firm wich is controled by the american defense ministry / CIA , in berlin last year to explain our aproach to neutralising IEDs , so i have a good picture of what is going on in some of the bomb making world . I was suprised that anyone knew that potassium permanganate is sometimes used in making bombs . I tend to mix things like that in most of my posts , trying to provoke reaction / thought ( in this one to ) The video doesnt say anything about cyanide or strychnin but it does show that i have a little knowledge on the subject and is interseting if you are interested in demining . I have uploaded it for you here if you want to look at it :-

http://www.rogepost.com/n/9107739697

The one time i "blew my kitchen up" i was holding a bottle with a pint of petrol in it in my hand and didnt notice that it had caught fire till it went "Knack" and fell over my trousers . I had realy nice clear blue flames all over me . I bent over and wrapped a carpet around myself wich put the flames out . I did not burn myself !!! The fire brigade and a few ambulances came and wanted to know what i had been doing = wich was embaresing . I said i had been curious how petrol bombs / molotov cocktails work so i tried it!!! The carpet , the washing mascine with all the washing went up in flames and the polystyrene tiles on the roof caught fire and dripped molten plastic all over the place . The second time i was boiling a mixture in an oil bath when the bottom of the glass that it was in broke , nothing happened for a split second and then there was a fountain like a geiser wich shot up and hit the roof and sprayed every where . The whole room had green stains over it . I heard the glass crack and took a step backwards till i was 1.5 meters away in a corner . NOTHING hit me !!!

"I think you do a great job at stirring things up, and make us think at the same time. I try to contribute by providing (often tech) related information and pointing to the novelty of it."

THANX for the roses . I noticed that you keep out of things and just explain things when you can help . and i see you have had a better education than a lot of us here , your explanations are always very good . You do a good job , thats why your aproval means a lot to me . I just think that psychonoughts,com is an organism full of shit and as every organism needs some way of dealing with shit i have took it on myself to be the arsehole here ?

I like the pictures and would love to know how you manage to get them into your posts ?

What does 'Quot capita, tot sententiae' mean please ?

LOVE GOD