psychedelic revolution

[aynama]

DrDreez: i'm really not liking it when I must say that you are bordering silly idealisms and bullshit.

but maybe I was too when I was 19..

anyhow, freedom of religion is the choice for me too.
just want to remind those who are not favouring this, that only about 10 years ago Church of american natives was in court and WON their right to grow and use peyote/mescalin in their practices.
in n.america.

as in if you have that certificate, it is legal to sell mescalin to a fellow native.

so that is the way to pave for me.

freedom of religion is the ground on which to build.
all we need is courage and organizing, getting the message through both nationwide and internationally to all the members of the psychonaut communities.

?

 

[DrDreez]

DrDreez: i'm really not liking it when I must say that you are bordering silly idealisms and bullshit.

It's easy to say someone is telling bullshit and then join the rest. Give me one example of my points of view that's silly. I think about things, you just follow the rest. In MY opinion religion is done for, over. MY OPINION!!! Who are you to say that my opinion is bullshit? At least i have my own opinion. And i'm not the one to tear down anyone else's opinion, i'm not like that. I only tear down things that just are wrong, like saying that heroin- and cannabis-addiction are the same, and stuff like that.
We are almost all catholics and i don't think that the Church of american natives is a recognized religion here, but i can be wrong.
A intelligent debat is one where these kinds of replies aren't necessary.

 

[svandamme]

I dont think that legalizing Halluzinogens would lead to any kind of problems, in fact most people wouldnt even try it, it aint like booze, its a lifestyle.

please explain to me then , what happened in the sixties?

the general understanding that first the shrinks had it, then the CIA
the CIA did experiments on the public , and effectively released it to the general population
Acid cool-aid test anyone?

result , a generation of kids who didn't feel like working , didn't like war, governement, just wanted to form communes and smoke pot and drop acid, and grow some food to survive... guess what , it didn't go like that , for one thing they were not self sufficient, and had to rely on the Diggers to feed them , second of all, it drew so much attention that tha man said , wow , wait a minute .. no more of that stuff

so to say it wouldn't catch on if legalized... is a bit naieve... the whole war on drugs was started because it damn well did catch on , in a huge way !

this also explains why gouvernements will NEVER, read it and weep , NEVER legalize psychedelics, it's to damn risky to the establishment, it would not result in a stable, functional , productive society

the only way you could swing legalization would be through the existing religions freedom legislation, like the native americans...

but keep in mind, as i mentioned several times before, you can't swing that idea if you want "all psychedelics" in your religions thing.. you will need to choose one , and make it a core sacrament in your spiritual belief

if you don't , tha man will compromise to the lowest grade psychedelic available , probably weed or mushrooms

by picking one, and sticking to it as unreplacable withing your belief, you prevent this compromise.

and mark my words, if such thing ever happens , it will not be a legalisation in the broad word , it will only be an exception, a very detailed and narrow exception for that mattor..
the law will never be rewritten to say : "LSD is ok for everyone" , or "anyone who wants it can get a dr's prescription"

anyone who still thinks otherwise, needs to lay off the medicine for a while, and talk to some serious people about it and make sure you're sober when you do so, no need to make a public spectacle of yourself... try the policicians in your area (not during election campains , they say anything you want to hear then ), try talking to some other activist groups, you'll find out soon enough...

 

[Kitiem3000]

In the sixties LSD was new, it was exciting and popular. Now LSD is considered to be one of the most dangerous drugs. People don't know anything about it, they just 'know' it's bad and will kill you.
It has had such negative advertising for so long, that if you legalise it, it won't spread like in the sixties anymore. And people propably won't form communes immediatly after. I'd love to try acid, but hippies and communes really strikes me as the gayest thing ever. I'm suprised it was popular even in the stoneage the hippies evolved in.
that belonged to a different time, and wasn't exclusively tied to drugs.
When weed was decriminalised in Belgium, there wasn't a huge rise in smokers, more like a nodge. I suspect LSD would be no different.

That said, I also think there's is no way they are ever going to legalise it. Maybe decriminalisation (gedoogbeleid) though, but I don't really cherish high hopes. Freedom of religion is a way to abvious lupehole. You think no-one ever tried it before? It's downright impossible to get a new religion accepted, let alone special treatement like you're proposing.

 

[svandamme]

lsd is different than weed, and don't underestimate the willingness to go mental in the youthfull generations

"it's legal so it must be safe: let's go for it"

hell , most kids don't even care about the legal thing , as long as it's available

the biggest reason there aren't much acid heads now , is the relative difficulty to find good acid, mean , E coke an speed are a lot easier to find...

the reason there is low availability , is the high risk legally to manufacture, and the low return on investement
it's too cheap for it's commercial good..and it has zero physical addiction risk... if you're a dealer , then that's bad for business...most acid is distributed through networks of acid fanatics... a price is payed, but realistically , not much profit is made



then there is the added thing about acid heads, they tend to evangelize it ... many people who went on acid once, will talk good about it , so after legalisation , this will only increase since one more barrier is gone... Leary beeing the prime example of pushing it a bit to far, and part reason for tha man to not ever let it happen again..
there's a reason why at some point he was referred to as public enemy #1... LSD does turn people in evangelists, especially right after a really good trip, you just want everybody to see the light... other drugs don't have this effect in this way , because they usually have a comedown period , and most people are mentally exhausted during this time...

 

[Kitiem3000]

But if it's legal, the governement can excercise some control on it's use. Acid will get a lot more expensive so it can make profit, you can give it a minimum age of 25 for instance, or make some sort of 'triplicense' (don't remember who's idea that was, but it's a good one).
Cigarettes are legal too, but people are still waging war on it. I picture legal acid in that kind of position. Hated by the many, but loved by the few. :hug:

When it gets like that, not many people will try. And I'm sure most people won't try it more then a few times. I don't think acid is for everyone. And the bad trip stories and urban legends about LSD dangers will depopularise it some more.

And weed is indeed nothing like acid, but what about shrooms? The comedown period isn't that long, and I talk it up like crazy whenever the conversation goes there, but I don't see many people jumping up and down to try it, while all they have to do is go to the store.

At least I'm right about communes being the gayest thing ever...

 

[skoeip]

If there would be al triplicense, wouldent there stil be a market for the mafioso to sell acid to people who did not get a license? and I to dn't think there wil be a great uprise in acid heads. yester day I talked whit a coce user about acid. after the conversaition he definitly didnt want to use acid, he said it was out of his leage

 

[Silence_Inc]

there is only one way to indeed get this out ... as a 'religion' ... and in a way or maybe completely - it is a religion - not with believe systems but with believe powers ... the power to stand for soemthing - something - beutifull - with power - and especially - love.

i to have alot of mixed feelings when i think and talk about the war on drugs - or just the way the world is being led to distruction. i start revolutions - i poison politicians with psychoactives - and i just spread the word ... BUT ... thank god this keeps playing in my head - cause when this would be reality - all hell would brake loose ... and i'm afraid we won't win.

we win by keeping them in the illusion that they have the power over us ... we win by keeping faith in what we believe is 'a better way to live'. yes we use drugs-psychoactives-holy plants -and visionary substances ... and yes - we LOVE it! ... cause we know that it helps our life - and that it creates an energyfield - invisble for untrained eyes ... but with high powers for those who tap into it.

the road is one with subtile changes - a road of ' wanna change the world? start here and now - with yourself' ...

many poeple will not understand it - why and what this stuff is all about - and i understand that just perfectly ... it is not to be understood. it can only be used and from that, life or people can be transformed in something new.

silence - faith - truth - love ... those are our powers ... . and i think by fighting the world 'leaders' - we will loose all of them.

 

[Brakkie]

Damn Silence Inc. That's gotta be the best reply I ever read! Holy shit you're the man!

Silence Inc. FOR PRESIDENT! :truce:

 

[MushroomTrip]

Silence Inc. you talked to my heart.

 

[svandamme]

actually , i posted a very similar thread about freedom of religion as a means to get legal psychedelic sacraments.

basically it's stuff Leary wrote a book about, although it's a bit to basic to be a book , more like a collection of ideas and suggestions on how to make your own religion

in short , he wrote

live under the radar, don't attract attention
play along if you have to , and keep your psychedelic religion safe , and personal , pick one sacrament
and if busted, call on freedom of religion laws
don't go promoting your thing, and have rules for the people included in your thing, don't mix match certain things, because they don't mix ( especially different sexual flavours should form their own clan )
choose a set of things you worship , can be anything you want, worship a lamp if you want, or a doorknob...whatever floats your boat, also have rituals ( i assume he emphasized this , because it's part of set and setting)

 

[lucasdr]

I personally am pleased with the current drug law here in Holland. I don't like chemicals, because I think they're just not trustworthy enough. Just like I don't use medicins.

I guess most people here think I'm talking trash, but using shrooms, peyote, kratom, Salvia, LSA, Ayahuasca, Guarana, Khat really is enough for me. And it's legal here

I did LSD and MDMA a few times, but that stuff is too 'agressive' in my opinion. I like the way mother nature mixes the chemicals just right, so you can get the feeling of that special organism

 

[Dennisz]

I don't agree with the "Natural is good, chemical is wrong" thesis. Plants can be toxic. Chemicals are very precise in their dose.
For instance: anyone coping with a depression eating a lot of St Jacob's ( what: roots, tincture, how much??) will be better of with a chemical preparate.

 

[Dennisz]

Sorry, St Jan

 

[tryptonaut]

I don't agree with the "Natural is good, chemical is wrong" thesis

Absolutely! If I compare MDMA to the natural ayahuasca - then which is more "aggressive"? Ayahuasca serves its purpose but it is definitely more aggressive than some MDMA.

Also I'd prefer some MDMA over datura any time!

 

[lucasdr]

For instance: anyone coping with a depression eating a lot of St Jacob's ( what: roots, tincture, how much??) will be better of with a chemical preparate.

Anyone with a depression shouldn't use drugs at all.

I think aggressive isn't the right word for it. It's really hard to explain. Natural drugs just give me the feeling of a right mix between chemicals made by mother nature. I can feel the soul of the specimen I'm eating (at least I think I can feel it).
Also I think the trips are more complex, because of more working chemicals.
Chemical drugs are in my opinion just an overdose of one very active substance. Not that I did not like MDMA or LSD, but if I search my inner feelings I gotta say that I like that subtle perfect complex feeling of natural drugs better.

 

[skoeip]

Some time a go I had a depresion, and when the time was right I took about 200 mg MDMA (I've got some natural resistance to MDMA). The substance realy gave me the posibility to work on my depresion. and after the experience the depresion wasnt gone, but I knew how I could live with it and work on it. And know it is mostly gone, sometimes the depresion comes back but I know how I can fight it! So it is bullsh*t to say someone with a depresion should not take drugs. For some people with depresion it can realy be positive to take drugs under the right sicumstances.

 

[svandamme]

:stop: do not advocate any drugs for any self treatment of any depression, especially not MDMA because it actually drains you and your depression can become even harder to beat...

everybody who has done to much MDMA , knows about the hangovers it can produce... they are sort of like micro depressions due to chemical imbalances in the brain... certain xxines that are exhausted, i believe serotonine ...

someone on a depression , with no experience could easely underestimate that hangover, and it can very well send them over the edge... especially after some chronic use of E.

so maybe you worked something out in a depression of some kind, but please do not advocate this, you might have had a small minor depression ( i'm not belitteling your depression , i'm just racking up possibilities ) or you had more mental strenght to overcome this depression , but please don't think that MDMA helped you cure your depression, it's not better at this , than say amphetamines or cocaine would be...

it's to damned tricky to advocate like this , it only takes one desperate person , to read this ,and in his desparation start messing with MDMA or other drugs on a mad hunch that it could be his solution...before they know it , they can be worse of than when they started out...keep in mind that people on a serious depression do not think straight, i know it's like that because i wasn't thinking straight when i had my episode... and i too was eating E from time to time , and in retrospect, i would have gotten through the depression a lot faster if only i would have stayed away from intoxicatants, doesn't matter what , if you're depressed, you need to sober up , not get high

 

[skoeip]

you are absolutely right! I've taken a big risk when I took MDMA, and was lucky to find myself coming out on the good side. I've had a strange depresed feeling the 2 weeks after my MDMA experience, it was a depresion but diverent than the one i was sufering from before the expierience. and now, a half year later, I realy feel like I can shake of the depresion. but I think that it is quite rare to shake of a depresion this way, and people should try to over come their depresion by talk therapy with a good and smart psychiatrist.

sorrie if there is a lot of rubish in this post, but it is a bit hard to find the right words to explain what I mean.

 

[lucasdr]

I'm reading this awesome book 'LSD-therapie in Nederland' (= LSD therapy in the Netherlands) by Stephen Snelders and I was thinking how awesome it would be if there were psychologists or shrinks that used LSD/MDMA or maybe just shrooms/cacti for treatment.
I defenatly would go to one if it was necessary