pompelmo e interazioni
- Auteur de la discussion mr-benzene
- Date de début
dark_paolo
New member
Ma per quanto riguarda la quantità di pompelmo da bere per "potenziare" gli effetti qual'è il massimo? Cioè quanti bicchieri contribuiscono attivamente?
dark_paolo
New member
Perfetto grazie mille 
Quindi meglio bere un 30cl ogni tanto, durante a progressione dell'esperienza 
Quindi meglio bere un 30cl ogni tanto, durante a progressione dell'esperienza 
oldbrand7
New member
no guarda..ti linko qualcosa (primi risultati di "pompelmo killer" su google). grapefruit è attivo anche se l'hai preso la sera prima...
Il pompelmo killer — Quarantadue
QUANDO IL POMPELMO E’ UN SERIAL KILLER
Farmaci e pompelmo, abbinamento a rischio
remember that la vitamina si ossida, devi spremere e bere in pochi minuti se no perdi l'organoletticità intrinseca e relativo scappellamento bicamerale (si vede che ho preso semini anche ieri notte eh?)
Il pompelmo killer — Quarantadue
QUANDO IL POMPELMO E’ UN SERIAL KILLER
Farmaci e pompelmo, abbinamento a rischio
remember that la vitamina si ossida, devi spremere e bere in pochi minuti se no perdi l'organoletticità intrinseca e relativo scappellamento bicamerale (si vede che ho preso semini anche ieri notte eh?)
dark_paolo
New member
Oh cavolo è più serio e potente di quanto immaginassi sto simpatico frutto allora! Grazie davvero per le delucidazioni odlbrand, mi hai davvero illuminato
Perdonami l'ignoranza però, cosa intendi per scappellamento bicamerale? xD
Comunque in conclusione conviene bersi un bicchierino di pompelmo a inizio esperienza e via, per evitare spiacevoli inconvenienti giusto?
Perdonami l'ignoranza però, cosa intendi per scappellamento bicamerale? xD
Comunque in conclusione conviene bersi un bicchierino di pompelmo a inizio esperienza e via, per evitare spiacevoli inconvenienti giusto?
oldbrand7
New member
ahah niente era un mix tra "amici miei" (la supercazzola che il sempre ottimo Proietti ancora tramanda..) e, in tema di cazzate, l'italica bicamerale. Pindaro me ne fa almeno una....non farmi esplicitare please.. (sempre citando Gigi..a me gli occhi..). [non so non mischiare] 10 semi 17 ore fa.... babyrose ti amo!(zacapa mi ardi troppo!)
mod, lo so che non è propedeutico al forum, ma è fico, lascialo, dai!
mod, lo so che non è propedeutico al forum, ma è fico, lascialo, dai!
dark_paolo
New member
Hahaha capito In fondo è proprio il mischiare e il provare (nei limiti della sicurezza) che fa dello psiconauta una figura così intrigante
In fondo è proprio il mischiare e il provare (nei limiti della sicurezza) che fa dello psiconauta una figura così intrigante 
Headache
Banni
Avete presente che anche su paura e delirio a lasvegas ordinano i pompelmi quando erano in acido?
Ho letto in giro non so dove che era un'usanza di alcuni hippies in quanto dicevano che aumentava l'effetto.
So che di per certo c'è un aumento di potenza con alcune tipologie di sostanze, un po come la lemontek con i funghi.
Ho letto in giro non so dove che era un'usanza di alcuni hippies in quanto dicevano che aumentava l'effetto.
So che di per certo c'è un aumento di potenza con alcune tipologie di sostanze, un po come la lemontek con i funghi.
Psycore
New member
Naringina e bergamottino... buono a sapersi. Non lo sapevo proprio.
Per quanto riguarda lsd e pompelmo: credo che l'lsd venga assorbito poco o niente nell'intestino, dovrebbe essere assorbito tanto in bocca e poco dallo stomaco. La naringina e il bergamottino inibiscono un enzima responsabile del metabolismo dei farmaci cioè il CYP3A4 intestinale. Ma mi sembra che l'LSD venga smaltito a livello epatico. Per questo credo che non influisca su intensità e potenza dell'LSD.
Per quanto riguarda lsd e pompelmo: credo che l'lsd venga assorbito poco o niente nell'intestino, dovrebbe essere assorbito tanto in bocca e poco dallo stomaco. La naringina e il bergamottino inibiscono un enzima responsabile del metabolismo dei farmaci cioè il CYP3A4 intestinale. Ma mi sembra che l'LSD venga smaltito a livello epatico. Per questo credo che non influisca su intensità e potenza dell'LSD.
Human Drug Metabolism: An Introduction - Michael D. Coleman - Google Libri qua ho trovato una bozza (incompleta) sull'interazioni fra lsd ed enzimi umani. il testo afferma che lsd viene metabolizzato troppo velocemente e in quantità troppo basse per capire a fondo l'interazione fra enzimi ed lsd. come ha detto Psycore, l'enzima CYP3A4 è presente nell'apparato intestinale e fegato - Cytochrome P450 3A4 (abbreviated CYP3A4) (EC 1.14.13.97), is an important enzyme in the body, mainly found in the liver and in the intestine (from wikipedia). dando un'occhiata ad altre ricerche sull'interazione fra droghe e farmaci, in particolare antiretrovirali e droghe da strada*, possiamo notare che non non esistono dati certi sull'interazione lsd e altri farmaci (anche se il pompelmo non è un farmaco, la sostanza presente nel pompelmo fuziona come inibitore dell'enzima CYP3A4)
perciò, alla fine, dobbiamo aspettare uno studio per avere qualche certezza. se qualcuno avesse altre informazioni al riguardo, lo pregherei di condividerleprayer. l'interazione fra pompelmo ed lsd interessa anche a me. a quanto ho capito, dovrei inibire vari tipi di enzimi (CYP3A4, UGT1A, CYP2D6, CYP2C9) per potenziare l'effetto, ma non è detto che funzioni...
* "LSD is metabolized by the liver, but little is known about how this occurs. Patients should be advised about the possibility of unknown interactions" da Methadone, Buprenorphine, and Street Drug Interactions with Antiretroviral Medications
perciò, alla fine, dobbiamo aspettare uno studio per avere qualche certezza. se qualcuno avesse altre informazioni al riguardo, lo pregherei di condividerle
prayer. l'interazione fra pompelmo ed lsd interessa anche a me. a quanto ho capito, dovrei inibire vari tipi di enzimi (CYP3A4, UGT1A, CYP2D6, CYP2C9) per potenziare l'effetto, ma non è detto che funzioni...* "LSD is metabolized by the liver, but little is known about how this occurs. Patients should be advised about the possibility of unknown interactions" da Methadone, Buprenorphine, and Street Drug Interactions with Antiretroviral Medications
SaulSilver
New member
Xiaobendan, this is possible. I don’t know. DXM is primarily metabolized and activated by CYP2D6. This produces the active hallucinogen dextrorphan (DXO). DXM is also metabolized to 3-methoxymorphinan (MEM) by CYP3A4. I don’t know much about MEM, but I assume it’s not hallucinogenic. So if a person gets very good effects from DXM, then they should be high in CYP2D6. If they get weak effects they might be high in CYP3A4.
I don’t know if CYP2D6 has any effect on elemicin, but it might.
My guess is that if you get extra strong effects from DXM, you’ll get very weak effects from elemicin.
I’m still not completely comfortable with the current understanding of how elemicin works though.
AFOAF has done many tests and is narrowing things down a little. Here’s what he’s found so far for HIS body (this may not apply to everyone), with good combinations listed first:
[TABLE="class: stg_table tborder"]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]Elemicin taken with[/TD]
[TD]Results of combination[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]5-10 grams German chamomile[/TD]
[TD]Always produces good visuals after about 60 minutes. It’s not so mescaline-like though.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]coffee[/TD]
[TD]Seems to boost the effects making it more like mescaline. This boost seems best when the coffee is taken an hour into the trip.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]2 tablespoons licorice root[/TD]
[TD]Seems to boost the effects making it more like mescaline. It’s hard to say. More tests need to be done.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]5-10 Datura stramonium seeds[/TD]
[TD]Increases the visuals.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]50-100 mg of nux vomica seed powder[/TD]
[TD]Makes the experience more LSD-like. It adds an LSD-like mind expanding effect and increases the visuals. (Nux vomica is very potent. Never use more than 50-100 mg. Children should not use it. Overdoses are deadly.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]6 drops cinnamon oil[/TD]
[TD]Produces a more LSD-style trip in terms of the body feel and slight boost in visuals.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]800 mg of cayenne pepper[/TD]
[TD]Produces a more LSD-style trip, with a slight boost in visuals and mood.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]1 cup of tea[/TD]
[TD]Seems to weaken the experience. More tests need to be done on this one.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]nothing added[/TD]
[TD]This is always iffy. Sometimes it works and is psychedelic, sometimes it does nothing, and sometimes it causes the “melatonin effect”.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]3-6 grams black pepper[/TD]
[TD]This is iffy and sometimes slows the trip down, delaying its onset by a few hours, sometimes causing the “melatonin effect”.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]2 cups white grapefruit juice + 5-10 grams German chamomile[/TD]
[TD]Produced a super delayed trip taking about 6 hours to start. Before the trip started he had the dreaded “melatonin effect”. The “melatonin effect” lasted a total of 2 days. This combination is horrible. It's similar to using black pepper but MUCH WORSE! At least black pepper sometimes produces good effects. This combination is just plain horrible.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I think that list is complete. Maybe I left something out. If I did I’ll go back and edit it.
From the tests above with several elemicin combinations, the worst was experienced when using it with black pepper or with a combination of white grapefruit juice and German chamomile. These combinations lead to the dreaded “melatonin effect”. When that happens, you feel sluggish, like you didn’t get enough sleep and want to sleep more, but sleeping will not help shake it off. Drinking coffee will not help usually even if you drink a ton. It doesn’t make you sleepy or sedated actually, but causes you to feel like you took a large dose of melatonin, which is sort of sedating, but not exactly. It’s hard to explain. I simply call it the “melatonin effect” because that’s the closest thing to it that I know of. When this happens there are pretty much no psychedelic effects even at super high doses. By playing with CYP3A4 and CYP1A2 inhibitors the “melatonin effect” can be caused or eliminated. CYP3A4 inhibitors seem to cause it, and CYP1A2 inhibitors seem to reduce it. A combination of both CYP3A4 and CYP1A2 inhibitors causes it for several hours but then produces a delayed trip on top of the “melatonin effect”, and the “melatonin effect” lasts throughout the delayed trip, and far into the next day long after the delayed trip ends.
Black pepper seemed to delay the onset of elemicin less than a mix of white grapefruit juice and German chamomile. I believe this is because the CYP3A4 inhibiting effects of black pepper don’t last as long as those of white grapefruit.
Basically, these tests show that elemicin is probably metabolized into an active psychedelic by CYP3A4, and metabolized into a melatonin-like drug by CYP1A2. Or possibly the melatonin effect is caused by it NOT being metabolized at all.
Here is what I think may be happening:
[TABLE="class: stg_table tborder"]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]CYP1A2[/TD]
[TD]CYP3A4[/TD]
[TD]Elemicin metabolism results[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP3A4 into a psychedelic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP3A4 into a psychedelic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]greatly metabolized by CYP3A4 into a psychedelic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP1A2 into a melatonin-like compound[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP1A2 into a melatonin-like compound[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]greatly delayed effect by slowing metabolism[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]probably unpredictable and short lived effects[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So if that is correct, the best results should be had by mixing elemicin with a good CYP1A2 inhibitor like German chamomile, and a good CYP3A4 inducer. I don’t know of a good CYP3A4 inducer. In another thread it was mentioned that Saint John’s Wort is a good CYP3A4 inducer.
da: https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132123&page=3
Per esempio anche la curcuma cambia alcuni enzimi P450, ma non solo la curcuma. La curcumina(curcumin) insieme al pepe ha una azione maggiore del 2000%. Capiamo bene che ogni spezia ha una importante funzione per metabolizzare le sostanze psicotrope.
Viva le spezie! :mrgreen:
I don’t know if CYP2D6 has any effect on elemicin, but it might.
My guess is that if you get extra strong effects from DXM, you’ll get very weak effects from elemicin.
I’m still not completely comfortable with the current understanding of how elemicin works though.
AFOAF has done many tests and is narrowing things down a little. Here’s what he’s found so far for HIS body (this may not apply to everyone), with good combinations listed first:
[TABLE="class: stg_table tborder"]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]Elemicin taken with[/TD]
[TD]Results of combination[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]5-10 grams German chamomile[/TD]
[TD]Always produces good visuals after about 60 minutes. It’s not so mescaline-like though.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]coffee[/TD]
[TD]Seems to boost the effects making it more like mescaline. This boost seems best when the coffee is taken an hour into the trip.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]2 tablespoons licorice root[/TD]
[TD]Seems to boost the effects making it more like mescaline. It’s hard to say. More tests need to be done.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]5-10 Datura stramonium seeds[/TD]
[TD]Increases the visuals.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]50-100 mg of nux vomica seed powder[/TD]
[TD]Makes the experience more LSD-like. It adds an LSD-like mind expanding effect and increases the visuals. (Nux vomica is very potent. Never use more than 50-100 mg. Children should not use it. Overdoses are deadly.)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]6 drops cinnamon oil[/TD]
[TD]Produces a more LSD-style trip in terms of the body feel and slight boost in visuals.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]800 mg of cayenne pepper[/TD]
[TD]Produces a more LSD-style trip, with a slight boost in visuals and mood.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]1 cup of tea[/TD]
[TD]Seems to weaken the experience. More tests need to be done on this one.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]nothing added[/TD]
[TD]This is always iffy. Sometimes it works and is psychedelic, sometimes it does nothing, and sometimes it causes the “melatonin effect”.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]3-6 grams black pepper[/TD]
[TD]This is iffy and sometimes slows the trip down, delaying its onset by a few hours, sometimes causing the “melatonin effect”.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]2 cups white grapefruit juice + 5-10 grams German chamomile[/TD]
[TD]Produced a super delayed trip taking about 6 hours to start. Before the trip started he had the dreaded “melatonin effect”. The “melatonin effect” lasted a total of 2 days. This combination is horrible. It's similar to using black pepper but MUCH WORSE! At least black pepper sometimes produces good effects. This combination is just plain horrible.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
I think that list is complete. Maybe I left something out. If I did I’ll go back and edit it.
From the tests above with several elemicin combinations, the worst was experienced when using it with black pepper or with a combination of white grapefruit juice and German chamomile. These combinations lead to the dreaded “melatonin effect”. When that happens, you feel sluggish, like you didn’t get enough sleep and want to sleep more, but sleeping will not help shake it off. Drinking coffee will not help usually even if you drink a ton. It doesn’t make you sleepy or sedated actually, but causes you to feel like you took a large dose of melatonin, which is sort of sedating, but not exactly. It’s hard to explain. I simply call it the “melatonin effect” because that’s the closest thing to it that I know of. When this happens there are pretty much no psychedelic effects even at super high doses. By playing with CYP3A4 and CYP1A2 inhibitors the “melatonin effect” can be caused or eliminated. CYP3A4 inhibitors seem to cause it, and CYP1A2 inhibitors seem to reduce it. A combination of both CYP3A4 and CYP1A2 inhibitors causes it for several hours but then produces a delayed trip on top of the “melatonin effect”, and the “melatonin effect” lasts throughout the delayed trip, and far into the next day long after the delayed trip ends.
Black pepper seemed to delay the onset of elemicin less than a mix of white grapefruit juice and German chamomile. I believe this is because the CYP3A4 inhibiting effects of black pepper don’t last as long as those of white grapefruit.
Basically, these tests show that elemicin is probably metabolized into an active psychedelic by CYP3A4, and metabolized into a melatonin-like drug by CYP1A2. Or possibly the melatonin effect is caused by it NOT being metabolized at all.
Here is what I think may be happening:
[TABLE="class: stg_table tborder"]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]CYP1A2[/TD]
[TD]CYP3A4[/TD]
[TD]Elemicin metabolism results[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP3A4 into a psychedelic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP3A4 into a psychedelic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]greatly metabolized by CYP3A4 into a psychedelic[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP1A2 into a melatonin-like compound[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]metabolized by CYP1A2 into a melatonin-like compound[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt2"]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]inhibited[/TD]
[TD]greatly delayed effect by slowing metabolism[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt1"]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]induced[/TD]
[TD]probably unpredictable and short lived effects[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So if that is correct, the best results should be had by mixing elemicin with a good CYP1A2 inhibitor like German chamomile, and a good CYP3A4 inducer. I don’t know of a good CYP3A4 inducer. In another thread it was mentioned that Saint John’s Wort is a good CYP3A4 inducer.
da: https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132123&page=3
Per esempio anche la curcuma cambia alcuni enzimi P450, ma non solo la curcuma. La curcumina(curcumin) insieme al pepe ha una azione maggiore del 2000%. Capiamo bene che ogni spezia ha una importante funzione per metabolizzare le sostanze psicotrope.
Viva le spezie! :mrgreen: