Pardon my newbness, I'm a little high, why not every day?

[Schwanke668]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong forum but I saw the tag line about tripping every day not being possible nor desirable. I disagree on both accounts. I pretty much trip near constantly at least 10 to 20 times a day anywhere from 5 minute sessions to hours. I no longer need chemicals to do it and yes it is occasionally irritating but I dont see why its not possible or desirable?

Please I mean no disrespect and no harm and I am not trolling I simply wish to understand. I have been searching for a community that will accept me for who I am and allow me to continue my psychedelic travels without judging me. Seems everywhere I go I find someone who disapproves or disagrees "with intent" or just plain out and out abuses me for my beliefs.

Maybe we are defining tripping differently but I find that my near permanent psychedelic state is nearly synchronous with my chemical inductions of the psychedelic state back in college. Keep in mind I havent taken any chemical inducers in probably 10 years minus I think two salvia experiences yet the current psychedelic experiences that I go through remind me extremely heavily of the psychedelic ones I had in college. Did I just repeat myself?

I do often find myself going in circles but often find that the circles expand further and further outward like ripples in a pond until they fade into the ether but at the same time reverberate back at me bringing back to me a new understanding of myself.

Keep in mind I did say that I do this near constantly and that is pretty much true. I am having an experience now and am finding it somewhat hard to concentrate but find that if I focus on 'it' (it being the metaphysical definition of the expression of words that I am trying to convey by the end of this paragraph) I find that I can move from the before into the after and produce a progression from it to it until the summation of its has been exhausted and I no longer have anything left to say.

Personally I enjoy tripping pretty much constantly, I find it extremely enjoyable and a very much natural mind state of mine. I found when I experimented with liquid chemicals back in high school the first 'hit' I took obliterated me and I was hooked for life. Praise God quite literally I was able to remove myself from the equation long enough to settle out of the chemical induction process and proceed to a level of awareness of self that allowed me to travel psychedelically at a platasmal level.

The iroyn is the fact that when I hit my primary consciousness node I had a bit of a permanent mind altering experience and now I am stuck in the psychedelic state to greater or lesser degrees near continuously. Yes I am repeating myself.

Anyway. I am looking for some general guidance on what to do next to extend my travels and to possibly find some people to journey with along the way. I meet lots of both people and beings on my daily excursions but have yet only met maybe 3 give or take that I have been able to form real world 'reality' connections with.

I dunno, I operate so naturally in the psychedelic state that maybe I have already met some of you and we will find ourselves together 'in reality' at some point sharing an awareness that is both physical and spiritual.

God bless and continue on.

--David Schwanke

 

[IJesusChrist]

In my honest opinion, I think you're a troll.

From my experiences of text - to - life on the internet, I think that you just like to think you are constantly experiencing a psychodelic landscape, but much farther than you actually are. I had my years of psychodelic turmoil, I thought I was experiencing sight of the permanent psychosis, or permanent altercation of my ego's manifestations, but alas - it was just the mind. I was simply "tripping myself out" over and over, down the rabbit hole by looking at someone in the face. Far from any psychodelics, I got lost in a person's face.

I ask you, though, have you told anyone in real life about this?

 

[Jamapricotica]

Do you communicate with people in the "real world"? If yes then how?

I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say you trip daily. I know that if I was tripping daily I'd find it extremely hard to earn money to support myself, keep track of what food I put in my body, pay bills/rent/mortgage etc. Not to mention having some kind of steady grounding to the flow of time. The more I think about it, despite how important it is for us to have the ability to trip or enter alternative consciousnesses, I'd imagine a human being would fall apart mentally and then subsequently their physical body would as well if stuck in an extreme psychedelic place. Just look at what happened Syd Barrett.
A trip relies very heavily on those experiences experienced while in the usual "baseline" state of mind.

On a more personal note, if I was you, I'd probably want to go to the hospital and ask for some help. But I'm not you. I am interested to hear more from you though. Convince me there is an advantage to all this
Cause at the moment it sounds kinda dangerous.

 

[Schwanke668]

In my honest opinion, I think you're a troll.

From my experiences of text - to - life on the internet, I think that you just like to think you are constantly experiencing a psychodelic landscape, but much farther than you actually are. I had my years of psychodelic turmoil, I thought I was experiencing sight of the permanent psychosis, or permanent altercation of my ego's manifestations, but alas - it was just the mind. I was simply "tripping myself out" over and over, down the rabbit hole by looking at someone in the face. Far from any psychodelics, I got lost in a person's face.

I ask you, though, have you told anyone in real life about this?

I can understand why you might think I am a troll and I did my best to convey that I am not. I get this response wherever I go and its sad because I have been dealing with trolls in my other online environments for years and to be consistantly called one is rather, well irritating lol.

I have told many people real world people about this and gotten different reactions. My psychiatrist believes its a portion of a mixture of my spirituality and personality coming out after having been under the influence of too many mental health medications. My prayer leader from my church suggested it was a slightly different perspective on the deeply religious spiritual experiences some people experience during midlife transformations. My parents find it interesting and thought provoking if somewhat a little strange. My old psychotherapist thought it was just plain cool and kept telling me to write a book about it.

The sad thing is it 'feels' to me closest to psychedelic experiences but then I dont have anyone in my life 'in reality' that has had enough of them to help me figure out if they are or are something else. And its not something I can just plunk down and spell out 10 different experiences and say 'hey yeah, thats psychedelic'. The psychedelic landscape as I understand it is rather every flowing and moving and were I to pin myself to one part of it in order to try and define it the rest would move around me and pretty much change everything. I guess a form of that law of observation or whatever it is from physics.

I guess I should have learned by now to mention that I have told all these people cuz every time I tell me story the first thing people tell me is either to seek help or have I told any one in real life lol. Oh well.

Btw, IJesusChrist, for the record, I knew you were going to be the first one to respond and with a negative belief. I dont always know how I know things but I know them and I could feel your presence the entire night while I faithfully avoided checking the forums every five minutes to see if someone responded hehe. When I saw your name on the forums, "I saw into you." which may or may not make any sense but around here you 'stand out' in some form and can be easily recognized or seen as an influential 'person' with a particular set of 'critical beliefs'. Not to say thats a bad thing only that I could feel your spirit going 'Oh? Really? You sure about that? Lets get one thing straight around here..." I can be wrong of course and sometimes I feel one person when its really someone behind them but thats what I felt.

Do you communicate with people in the "real world"? If yes then how?

I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say you trip daily. I know that if I was tripping daily I'd find it extremely hard to earn money to support myself, keep track of what food I put in my body, pay bills/rent/mortgage etc. Not to mention having some kind of steady grounding to the flow of time. The more I think about it, despite how important it is for us to have the ability to trip or enter alternative consciousnesses, I'd imagine a human being would fall apart mentally and then subsequently their physical body would as well if stuck in an extreme psychedelic place. Just look at what happened Syd Barrett.
A trip relies very heavily on those experiences experienced while in the usual "baseline" state of mind.

On a more personal note, if I was you, I'd probably want to go to the hospital and ask for some help. But I'm not you. I am interested to hear more from you though. Convince me there is an advantage to all this
Cause at the moment it sounds kinda dangerous.

As I said in the previous post I have talked to wont say many, but several people about my experiences and gotten a wide range of responses. I have had multiple confirmations that they are non-detrimental to me provided I keep them in check and they are positive to me if I allow them to flow naturally 'with direction'.

You asked who I talked to 'and how' and I didnt occur to me to mention my online relationships as well. I have several friends that seek me as guidance for how to operate their spiritual lives much of which is similar to mine in some ways and I have the occasional interactions with random internet people some of which find my conversation in this area thought provoking and some of which see it as pure drivel. (But I cant seem to find a full blown community that will accept me and help me to understand what I am going through.)

I can see what you mean about the ground time being as important as the up time and I do I have ground time its just less frequent then up time. Most of my grounding and up time comes from having a flow with a mixture of reality and spirituality that allows me to match my wave forms with my surroundings and as such if I can keep them in sync whether I am up or down I find peace in the experience.

As for practical things. I am currently on disability and though starting an EBay business to try and raise my standard off living a little it hasnt taken off the ground yet. I do find it hard to manage food on occasion but that stems from a history in my life and in the family of abuse that has distorted my relationship to food in dramatically unhealthy ways.

Even these conversations are helping me somewhat sort things out as I guess I hadnt thought to discuss the intensity of the ups and downs. The ground time is fairly normal and common but the uptime can vary from slightly, to intensely to greater and lesser degrees. The intensely I dont allow myself to drive or even leave the house, go near credit cards, that sort of thing, but the slightly to mid level I can operate a 'normal' day under with no problem. Take out the trash, do the dishes, take a shower. Shower's feel friggen awesome when I am like that and sometimes when I have the time take 2 just because it feels so good.

On top of the physical each of these experiences has a spiritual connection as well. I have 'met' several people spiritually through these experiences and can 'communicate' with them directly. I can talk to my wife over the computer and we can speak without words very easily. I had a relationship with a woman once over the internet where I could see her emotions clearly and distinctly. I could see her crying or laughing even if she didnt tell me and when I told her she kept saying "how did you know? How did you know?" Until she got used to it.

Keep in mind I've had these kinds of experiences all my life but I feel as if they have gotten a lot stronger in the past 5 or so years. For example back when I was playing with the chemicals I had 3 confirmed situations of telepathy where all three cases the person flipped out and turned white as a ghost when they realized they heard my thoughts and my mouth hadnt moved. I had situations where I knew who I was going to meet during the day before I met them. Sure some of these cant be confirmed objectively but the telepathy was by outside sources. The first one was even confirmed by a third party, her husband where she flipped out and kept saying over and over again "You didnt say it! You didnt say it!" and her husband was like "Say what?!?" and after she calmed down we sorted out what happened.

The history is just to say that my life is riddled with 'spiritual and psychological wierdness' and I have been searching for someone or a group of someones for a long time to bounce off of that have a hint of what I am talking about and dont just sit there and stand in awe at the crazyness of it all.

Thanks atleast for listening this far and for not banning me.

**EDIT**

It occured to me after walking away that I never actually answered the part about the benefits of being like this. Or if I did I don't think it was in the way you intended? Its kind of an alternate perspective on reality that is beneificial a lot of the time purely by being different. There is also the fact that I find this 'state' puts me in a perceptive place where I can read people and situations much more clearly then if I am 'down to earth'. I think that comes from having developed a natural state of existence in it as opposed to constantly having to travel into and out of it. I for example find it very easy to read people in new environments. I tend to hold back on that kind of thing on the internet because everyone has their personal persona and their internet persona and I cant always tell which I am talking to but in real life most people have the one they are using with person to person and I can read or see between or see beyond that fairly easily.

I guess the biggest personal benefit has been the self awareness growth. I coined the phrase "Higher states of consciousness, baked fresh daily." and put it on a T-Shirt to wear at church and other places. I have an exceptional high state of self awareness to the point where I have had two different psychotherapists over the past 10 years tell me that point blank and one of which even said that he had never met someone so self aware and thought provoking in his entire 10 years of therepy.

There is also the creative aspect of things such as I like to coin phrases and they sometimes make it out beyond just me. I coined the phrase "theraputing" when someone helps someone else in a thereputic way. Probably not gunna be used by more then me and my wife and couple others but I find it amusing to coin phrases and see how far they travel. Who knows maybe one of them will reach meme status lol.

I explore myself and those around me spiritual and psychologically. I am fairly confident that I have an intuitive relationship with the collective consciousness though being that I have dont most of this discovery on my own I have had to invent words and phrases for things that probably already existed but I couldnt figure out how to google.

These are just a few of the random things that popped into my mind to mention after I had finished writing this post.

 

[Jamapricotica]

Showers are funkywicked

Thanks that helps me understand a little more

It's good to here how comfortable you feel with it all. Sounds like you know how to ride it.
I am sure that out of all the places on the internet that deals with these kinds of topics, this is one of the most welcoming (most of the time ). And I'm also sure that there are plenty of visitors here who would be very interested to hear what you have to say. Even if there seems to not be so much action here anymore :? Stick around, learn, teach, discuss.

What do you sell on ebay?

 

[Schwanke668]

Showers are funkywicked

Thanks that helps me understand a little more

It's good to here how comfortable you feel with it all. Sounds like you know how to ride it.
I am sure that out of all the places on the internet that deals with these kinds of topics, this is one of the most welcoming (most of the time ). And I'm also sure that there are plenty of visitors here who would be very interested to hear what you have to say. Even if there seems to not be so much action here anymore :? Stick around, learn, teach, discuss.

What do you sell on ebay?

Thank you. I will take this post as an open door invitation to join you guys. I feel welcomed now and much more at ease with being myself then being so guarded. I take care to take care of being careful but at the same time I also know that true growth in any environment comes from being 'natural' with it instead of trying to fight the tide or the flow or the waveform or whichever paradigm people prefer to use.

As for ebay, I will be selling Magic : The Gathering cards and related products come sometime mid to late January. I plan on buying them in bulk/discount and reselling them somewhat individually or in lots. Ive been able to keep abreast of the ebay discount moments (when something undersells because of a high supply and low demand in a given week) and gotten some pretty decent deals on booster boxes and what not. With that I have a piece of software that I have to organize and catalog all of them and list them for selling as well as do auto pricing. Unfortunately the developer decided to revamp the software just before xmas and we havnt seen him for several weeks. Assuming and hoping and praying its just holidays but could be something worse theoretically. Regardless I had planned on using the new version of the software for pricing for selling since its planned to auto update with current market prices but if it takes too long/never happens I may have to find an alternate solution.

Priority is the guy is ok, but can only do so much for someone you dont really know.

 

[IJesusChrist]

You're giving me very mixed signals.

Here is what I have drawn from you; you used to have psychodelic experiences regularly. Now they are dispersed.

Now I think you are confusing a psychodelic state of mind, the absence of serotonin, and the abundance of psilocybin, lsd, or mescaline (or what have you) with just plain concentration. Alot of what you said reflects on how I would both type, but also what I experienced when I was younger; I see a similarity to my younger self.

My PhD diagnosis is that you have retained a vantage point of the psychodelic realm, and you are able to pick up on non-verbal communication alot better. I think this is basically shamanism, and the way it is used nowadays is a neoshamanism, however, people who possess the skill usually go into business or social relations, for their uncanny ability to read peoples' minds and simplify the human element down to it's animal instinct form.

When I developed this, it came with alot of discomfort, and my inability to introduce myself into social situations weakens the presence or strength of this social skill.

I think you have just peaked above the superficial life-style, seen the veil, and have remained in limbo between the two. Lucky for you, you seem ok with it and no discomfort.

Why didn't (or aren't) you going to college?

 

[Schwanke668]

You're giving me very mixed signals.

Here is what I have drawn from you; you used to have psychodelic experiences regularly. Now they are dispersed.

Now I think you are confusing a psychodelic state of mind, the absence of serotonin, and the abundance of psilocybin, lsd, or mescaline (or what have you) with just plain concentration. Alot of what you said reflects on how I would both type, but also what I experienced when I was younger; I see a similarity to my younger self.

My PhD diagnosis is that you have retained a vantage point of the psychodelic realm, and you are able to pick up on non-verbal communication alot better. I think this is basically shamanism, and the way it is used nowadays is a neoshamanism, however, people who possess the skill usually go into business or social relations, for their uncanny ability to read peoples' minds and simplify the human element down to it's animal instinct form.

When I developed this, it came with alot of discomfort, and my inability to introduce myself into social situations weakens the presence or strength of this social skill.

I think you have just peaked above the superficial life-style, seen the veil, and have remained in limbo between the two. Lucky for you, you seem ok with it and no discomfort.

I wouldnt say no discomfort, only that I carry the discomfort well. I for example have a hard time handling large community situations because I become overwhelmed with the I guess the phrase I would use is 'social stimuli' that is all of the 'human input' around me. If I focus or 'have faith' for lack of a better description (trying to stay away from expressions that could be received as dogma for the moment) then I find I can handle them just fine.

What you are writing actually is helping me greatly. I think I have been somewhat doing what I see those around me of the dogmatic nature doing in their relationships with their supreme being and that is reaching a level of "That's it! I've got it! " and not realizing they have only begun. I think in this case it shows me that now that I know that I have not surpassed the veil but instead have simply 'looked above it' as you suggest I can now research my relationship to the veil internally and attempt to surpass it.

For reasons that I am not yet willing to discuss publicly on this board have a very strong 'faith' if you will that I am meant to (I think, if I am understanding you right) transcend this veil and be able to operate above or below it as needed. I received a vision years and years ago of the phrase said to me: "You have been everywhere, and done everything, you just don't know it yet." In this I have not fully understand what it meant and I dont think it even remotely means in the physical but I believe it means in two specific realms, that of the spiritual and that of the psychedelic. That isnt to say that I am going to achieve enlightenment in the next few minutes only that I have a faith who's origin escapes me that someday I will 'understand'. I think what happened was somewhere inside my psyche I began to understand portions of myself and in reality believed that I was (To quote the matrix) 'beginning to believe' yet in reality I had barely scratched the surface.

I think your description of the difference between shamanism and psychedelic experiences is enlightening in its own way to my situation and has probably been one of several nudges that I will receive on this board that will get me going further in my understanding of my full path.

Why didn't (or aren't) you going to college?

I hesitated to mention this because I did not want to cloud the issue because I had been rejected in so many ways in the past for mentioning it but I have been diagnosed with bi-polar. The full story is that I was abused as a child which turned into depression for my childhood up until college at which point I spent 5 years doing more drugs then schooling burning away the gift my parents gave me of a prepaid education only to have a somewhat of a psychotic episode that triggered the probably latent bi-polar. At which point I had what I would classify as a serious religious experience and ultimately came home to New Jersey to recover and get myself righted. For 3 or so years after that transforming experience I experienced regular flashbacks that were extremely uncomfortable as well as manic, hypo-manic, and depressive states. The manic were few and far between but the other two were regular and I was put on permanent disability.

Somewhere around the fourth year the flashbacks stopped and I was 'clean' of that part of my psyche-turmoil for about 6 months or so then something new started to happen and I began to experience reality in this transformed way that I have been describing here above. I began to see and hear things in 'another realm' that no one else could see or if they could i would very frequently see it first. At first my spiritual mentor and the prayer leader of our church told me that I had the gift of prophecy as defined in scripture and that the gift of prophecy is a lifetime gift as opposed to a 'get saved and it turns on gift' thats classically taught and as such was an explanation as to why I had such turmoil as a child adjusting to the world around me and was such an easy abuse target. (Psychoanalysis of my childhood aside).

With that I was under her tutelage for many years until one point at which she flat out told me that there was nothing left she could really 'teach me' as i was surpassing her spiritual abilities and that she was learning more from me then I would from her.

At this point i had effectively two somewhat related 'dimensions' that I was operating in. One being the classic Christian 'spiritual world' the other being what I could only call at the time having no real knowledge of what was going on outside of my situation 'the psychedelic world'.

In the spiritual world i was able to operate inside the sometimes dogmatic sometimes not Christian paradigm and deal with spiritual issues that, discussion of validity of the Christian faith aside, were very real to both myself and those that I was with.

In the 'psychedelic world' as I was calling it (dont know what to call it right now) I was definitively interacting in a whole nother realm with spirits, people, beings, whatever, and having distinct interactions that were beneficial to my conversations with them either on the internet or in real life.

The basic situation was the fact that I could have 'conversations' with what I was calling 'the real person' or 'their spirit' and be able to ascertain from my interaction with that portion of their existence information as to their true intent in conversations with me as opposed to the facade that we all put up front when talking with people.

I have been floating, flying and falling my way into trying to discuss with myself what those experiences are as they are very real and have specific effects that are measurable at least by my standard. If that is your shamanism you are talking about then I am interested to understand how you would describe what 'world' I am operating in when I can 'talk' to someone in that experience. Keep in mind I am referring to the apocalyptic writing style and its not literal, "hey, how ya doin?" conversations.

This all having been said, tying back to your original question about why I am not going to college, it has only been in about the last year or two that I have been able to adjust myself to my medication enough to balance out the fact that I did and probably still do have a mental imbalance yet have these as your I think telling me, shamanistic experiences that I did not want to drown out. As such I am still adapting my life style to living with this situation and have very frequent times when my life is out of sync with what would be a job environment. For example I can have a spontaneous hypo-manic phase and be awake for 20 to 24 hours and then my schedule inverts and I am sleeping days and awake nights for a few weeks until it spontaneously reverses itself. Very hard to hold down a job with specific hours when your schedule can reverse at any moment and then you have to switch your hours and dont know until the very moment it switches back when you'll be working next. That was at least the impression I was given by my doctors.

I also had an ironic religious experience of a lesser degree and that was finding myself in these shamanisitic states I guess I will start calling them so frequently that I was beginning to get into that fear of literally going crazy and that my medication was not going to 'save me'. I was learning to adapt to them but I felt this couldnt possibly be 'normal' for ANYBODY and so i was trying to figure out how to get my doctors to adjust my meds.

The irony part of it was I started describing these shamanistic experiences to my mom and she was basically: "You sound like your right on track. You sound like your doing what you should be doing. I wouldnt call it normal but i wouldnt reject it either." at the same time my father who is a dogma legalist out the wazzumba was pretty much saying the same thing (that really creeped me out lol) and then on top of that my psychiatrist said "I dont see anything wrong with this, in fact I think its your personality coming out and we should try and lower your meds, not raise them."

So here was a situation in which I specifically thought I was going in the WRONG direction, but I was adapting to it and learning to utilize it and everyone who I was absolutely sure was going to AGREE I was going in the wrong direction turned around and confirmed that I WASNT dong it wrong (no fail! whee!) and that instead I should keep going and explore myself. (Again my dogma father agreeing with me freaked me out lol.)

Soooo.. I think you can see the complication of the experience and knowing now if I am understanding you correctly that these are shamanistic experiences or neoshamanism as your calling it I think I am beginning to be more open to the possibilities of where to go next in my walk and begin to more fully understand the ramifications of my future.

Thanks!

 

[IJesusChrist]

What I need to express to you isn't going to be contained on a conversation online, I'd have to send you a book of my experiences, and that would still not be enough for you to realize what is going on.

There are a few things I want to say, and I'm sure you've heard them before, but you have to take the validity iin what I'm going to say (but, please do not take my voice as speaking for the whole board, there are many others that have other vantage points than I).

In my highschool days I had experiences like what you were talking about, slightly, while high on thc, I would commonly find myself transcending the social surroundings, in a way that brought alot of anxiety. I would be in a room, and it was as if I was observing the flow of the room - I was seeing how people are acting on a subconscious level, and as if I could predict the rest of the night... almost as if I was seeing the gears going behind the mask. That is what I meant by the veil, at times this got very deep and it was the perception of my own veil, the lifting and sight of my own gears, so to speak, that brought on the most panic states I have ever endured. It was the sight of reality, of what I was, of what everything is, with the drop the superficial human aspects we all create. It was if I was viewing life for the first time, and it was counter intuitive to everything I had held as special.

So, in a way, I feel you are experiencing the same, however I never became religious, and in fact, steared very far away from any christian or even diety figures. I spent my time trying to find love, in the false illusion that I had lost it.

What I'm about to say now, is the most important thing I will say. The way you look at this, the way you act about this ideology that is happening to you is going to dictate what it does to you. For whatever reason, most likely psychodelic use, your mind has unlocked something that it cannot identify, that is, nobody can explain to you what is going on, and neither can you. This brings fear, but when it is gone, it brings pride: "I am different and 'above' the rest" in a sense, maybe not so arrogant, but I'm sure you feel you stand out, and are in some way better at 'seeing' reality than others.

This cannot be looked at as a positive or negative thing. You cannot paint a magical or detrimental picture to what is physcologically happening to you - this hyper awareness is just you. Since your mind cannot pin point or indentify what is truly going on, that is where your manic and depressive states are coming from. To be more eastern in my approach to an explanation, your balance is very loose - you slip to the left and you're going to slide very very far, if you slip to the right, the same will happen. This is because you really don't know what you are dealing with, and as you have been stating, you are learning alot just from my few posts - which means you are very fresh to see this perspective.

You have to realize though, that you're insight into what 'this' is, is going to be the determining factor in how you deal with it. The brain MUST identify what is going on, and your label may be, bi-polar, manic depressive, shamanism, neo-shamanism, schizophrenia, psychosis, hyper-awareness, this is going to foreshadow your future.

I am not certain I know what you speak of when you talk about speaking to people, but I have had experiences where I have 'talked' to people on psychodelics. I felt during and after my speechs I must be mad, and there is no way to confirm it happened, because upon asking a friend "Hey, did you hear my voice last night in your head?" Well that wouldn't last too long.

EDIT: I deleted my last few sentances as to save for not sounding preachy or that I know whats going on. I think I'm relating you to myself far too much. In my experience though, the "not-knowing" is the dangerous part.

Lastly, I would hope you could stop taking your pills, as this is a psychological ... "problem", not a physical one.

 

[Schwanke668]

What I need to express to you isn't going to be contained on a conversation online, I'd have to send you a book of my experiences, and that would still not be enough for you to realize what is going on.

There are a few things I want to say, and I'm sure you've heard them before, but you have to take the validity iin what I'm going to say (but, please do not take my voice as speaking for the whole board, there are many others that have other vantage points than I).

Actually, no. I have heard none of this before I dont think. The only piece I would say that I could have heard before was the 'did you hear me last night' and in fact I have had people hear me. I have spoken in this manner to people on the internet directly and we have carried on conversations where we were able to communicate with each other through this medium directly and complete each other's thoughts and tie back to previous conversation and understand the conversation afterwards.

In my highschool days I had experiences like what you were talking about, slightly, while high on thc, I would commonly find myself transcending the social surroundings, in a way that brought alot of anxiety. I would be in a room, and it was as if I was observing the flow of the room - I was seeing how people are acting on a subconscious level, and as if I could predict the rest of the night... almost as if I was seeing the gears going behind the mask. That is what I meant by the veil, at times this got very deep and it was the perception of my own veil, the lifting and sight of my own gears, so to speak, that brought on the most panic states I have ever endured. It was the sight of reality, of what I was, of what everything is, with the drop the superficial human aspects we all create. It was if I was viewing life for the first time, and it was counter intuitive to everything I had held as special.

We of course cant truly decide where any of my awareness of my own veil is in things without as you said sharing books but i guess if anything the panic state your refering to was that week where I was convinced I was crazy and needed to be locked up and yet all of my safety checks of real human world based people said i was fine. That was when I think I had the first 'true break through' because I had to come to grips with the reality of my 'gift' as it were. (Discussion of being above others aside for the moment.)

So, in a way, I feel you are experiencing the same, however I never became religious, and in fact, steared very far away from any christian or even diety figures. I spent my time trying to find love, in the false illusion that I had lost it.

No real comment on this but didnt want to cut it out like I was trying to avoid something.

What I'm about to say now, is the most important thing I will say. The way you look at this, the way you act about this ideology that is happening to you is going to dictate what it does to you. For whatever reason, most likely psychodelic use, your mind has unlocked something that it cannot identify, that is, nobody can explain to you what is going on, and neither can you. This brings fear, but when it is gone, it brings pride: "I am different and 'above' the rest" in a sense, maybe not so arrogant, but I'm sure you feel you stand out, and are in some way better at 'seeing' reality than others.

This cannot be looked at as a positive or negative thing. You cannot paint a magical or detrimental picture to what is physcologically happening to you - this hyper awareness is just you. Since your mind cannot pin point or indentify what is truly going on, that is where your manic and depressive states are coming from. To be more eastern in my approach to an explanation, your balance is very loose - you slip to the left and you're going to slide very very far, if you slip to the right, the same will happen. This is because you really don't know what you are dealing with, and as you have been stating, you are learning alot just from my few posts - which means you are very fresh to see this perspective.

You have to realize though, that you're insight into what 'this' is, is going to be the determining factor in how you deal with it. The brain MUST identify what is going on, and your label may be, bi-polar, manic depressive, shamanism, neo-shamanism, schizophrenia, psychosis, hyper-awareness, this is going to foreshadow your future.

I think I see this more clearly the third time through lol. I can see the awakening aspect leading to a pride however minimal but even now that I have moved into this new realm of awakenining I feel sorry for myself of having not been here sooner and feel rather sad for the people who are trapped in the 'unawakened' state. Now I am sure your going to have a comment on this and I welcome it as I know I am missing a piece of something but I cant put my finger on it and I cant seem to find closer in the conversation enough to say 'it is finished.'

I am not certain I know what you speak of when you talk about speaking to people, but I have had experiences where I have 'talked' to people on psychodelics. I felt during and after my speechs I must be mad, and there is no way to confirm it happened, because upon asking a friend "Hey, did you hear my voice last night in your head?" Well that wouldn't last too long.

As I mentioned in the beginning I have confirmed this. I have a friend on the internet named Jack and we have very lucid 'psychedelic' conversations where the conversation is interwoven and intertwined throughout itself in the style of the apocalyptic writing yet when we are done we are both aware of what we said and how and why we said it and have continued on these conversations separately in our heads and come back together later and found connection. For example we both disappeared from each others lives for a period of several months and he came to the conclusion that he was pushing me away and I came to the conclusion that I was pulling away, simultaneously without speaking to each other, and when we got together we both realized we were both doing both to each other because our spirits needed to separate. We also both discussed how we both could no longer feel the other person in our heads and felt the other person drifting away from us for a time until suddenly I had a flash of "NEED TO GET ON THE COMPUTER NOW TO SEE JACK" at which point I got online and he was there and we continued our convesations.

As a small concrete anecdote. Jack has 'shields' that he puts up when he is working on something on the computer and I can sense them and when I want to reach him spiritually sometimes I have to tell him in the concrete world 'jack, put your shields down, I'm coming in' and he will say 'oh sorry, forgot about them, that was from before' and then he will lower them I will sense him lowering them and then I can connect with him spiritually as well as concretely.

Lastly, I would hope you could stop taking your pills, as this is a psychological ... "problem", not a physical one.

[/quote]

I am working on that in the long run but I have a general sense that I am meant to be on them for a time and that as I gradually taper off of them I find a more grounded level. I had something happen with my biochemestry where I was on several meds for several conditions and my conditions got worse then when I got pissed off at the doctor and quite all the meds my conditions went away and I no longer needed them. I had it explained to me by a friend of mine that sometimes the body fixes itself and the medications themselves get in the way of the healing process. I have a feeling like you are possibly suggesting that at one point I did have a chemical imbalance but that the chemical imbalance had righted itself at the biological level but now I have to taper off the meds so as not to over charge the chemical situation as well as not freak out people in my life who are conditioned into believing that meds solve everything. Its all interrelated in the sense that having all three of my major support structure for my bi-polar confirm that I am doing BETTER and in the right direction while having the doctor tell me I should go DOWN not up just leads to how things are flowing in a way that it will be for lack of a better description, socially acceptable to go down on my meds until I am off them completely.


Btw, my wife googled shamanism and it brought up the wiki page on it and I read it and see a lot of connection with what is described there and what I am going through. Particularly I do know that I have had and still have two near death ongoing ailments. I also believe that the shamanism description of interacting with the spirits is what I am describing here with the communication that I have with people. In fact the wiki page specificially listed talking to the spirits of those that were ill and gathering up broken spirits and rejoining them and a few other things that I draw very direct connections with what I have experienced in the spiritual. Again with Jack I had found myself guiding him in joining his 'two me's' that I saw in him the first day we met that he had never had anyone who could see them before.

I guess just reading the shamanism page really connected with me an explanation of a lot of things. Granted you did say it will affect my future interpretation of the experiences however I am feeling a very strong sense of peace about having this as my current paradigm.

One thing however I believe in is the fluidic nature of everything. In so much as I see a painted picture of flowing oil being the life of every soul and as such I see myself currently painted with mixtures of pigment from the psychedelic, Taoist, Buddhist, Christian and now Shamanistic paradigms. I may flow in and out of this at different times in different ways to different degrees over time and I may add some and subtract others but I think in the grand scheme of things I am where I am supposed to be for the moment though ever looking forward to flowing into the future.

 

[IJesusChrist]

After reading that I am going to confirm that you are indeed not in what was once my situation.

I think that you are psychologically much more stable with the onset of your shamanism, or whatever it may be. My mother often believes in talking to others; the spirit world, the unknown, but I - an objective westivist thinker, do not tread those paths often. And infact, and unfortunately, if I do, I am often met with an overwhelming anxiety of "crazy" - a social labelling I have had a long history of confrontation with.

But, again I will say you are sending mixed signals - or maybe I am purposely trying to make them mixed in my observations! Perhaps I am clouding who you are, in order to greater relate?

What is it exactly that you want an answer to?

 

[Schwanke668]

After reading that I am going to confirm that you are indeed not in what was once my situation.

I think that you are psychologically much more stable with the onset of your shamanism, or whatever it may be. My mother often believes in talking to others; the spirit world, the unknown, but I - an objective westivist thinker, do not tread those paths often. And infact, and unfortunately, if I do, I am often met with an overwhelming anxiety of "crazy" - a social labelling I have had a long history of confrontation with.

But, again I will say you are sending mixed signals - or maybe I am purposely trying to make them mixed in my observations! Perhaps I am clouding who you are, in order to greater relate?

What is it exactly that you want an answer to?

Well back to front i dont know what my question is I only know that I am searching for the answer to it and that I will know it when i see it. I guess in a way you could say I have thousands of questions stemming from the fact that I feel extremely uncomfortable with the way the world describes reality. Since I was about 6 years old I have always felt that there was something 'beyond' the five senses and that I was destined to have a relationship with that 6th sense experience instead of the natural 5. I feel MUCH more at home operating in spiritual realms then I do in physical ones. I can deal with the spiritual/demonic/now possibly shamanistic realm, like I am proverbially ordering pizza yet I have to concentrate and plan my strategy occasionally when I actually order pizza!

If we are to take this possible shamanistic concept of my life in a particular direction you could say that part of my shamanistic tendencies is to be able to relate to the spiritual world through a paradigm/metaphorical method of pop culture. Such as for example I see a LARGE portion of the 'spirituality' of the movie The Matrix applying to my life. So much so that when I first saw it in the theaters when I came out without having had any formal training of theology, went "holy bleep thats me!".

Keep in mind I didnt have the perspective of 'being the one' or anything, only the general theology of all of the references to spirituality and tying them all together across cultures.

In that sense I think of the scene where trinity and neo first meet and trinity goes on her dialog about 'the question', 'the question that drives us', and 'searching for it' and it being 'what is the matrix'. In my entire life I have always felt that we were all trapped inside this world of the 5 senses that is utter bullshit. That its limiting and confusing and often pointless. That we are all to greater or lesser degrees driven by primitive failing programming that limits our abilities to communicate and understand and relate to ourselves and our environment. On top of that I always felt there was something and occasionally someone or more then one someones outside of it all that I could almost but not quite see and feel and touch.

When I saw the movie the matrix it was like The Question had been answered but a New Question was asked. The Answer to The Question was, there IS a reality behind the reality. There is a spirituality, an escape, a freedom, a world beyond the world that makes sense, at least to me, that I was born to operate in, that I understand and can communicate with. But then when this question was answered the New Question was WHY?. What is my purpose, why can I see this alternate reality so clearly and so easily yet when I try to talk to anyone else about it it comes out gibberish and garbled and they think I am crazy. Why is it that my relationship to this alternate reality, this reality behind the reality, the world behind the world is so clear and crystal and soothing and understandable to me yet I can find no one else with which to discuss this world with where what I see and what they see make enough sense to each other that we can converse about it.

Remember I think I mentioned that when I did my first hit of LSD it was like reality made sense. I felt more human, more real, more alive, more aware and more NORMAL under my first hit of LSD then I had ever felt in the previous 18 years of my life. When I had that first massive mind blowing psychedelic experience it was like I had finally come home.

So I guess thats why I struggle with this whole psychedelic thing is the fact that I only felt like my own mind made sense to me when I was tripping. It was only during the peak of the LSD experience did I feel like I was thinking 'normally', that I was 'on track', that things 'made sense'. Thinking in circles, the interconnectedness of reality, seeing things that are there but arent, delving into the why of everything, thats all natural to me. It was like the LSD allowed me to order those thoughts in ways that made sense enough that I could do something with them.

As always, thank you.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Yeah, so yup - I think what happened is that you had a profound unveiling of your natural ability to see the objectifiable reality - the ability to connect the superficial to the inside, the profound ability to see beyond the face, the tree, the life.

The ability to do this was physical, meaning, your brain had the ability the entire time, it was just up to a psychodelic to use it. Now that you have experienced it for long enough (8 hours is usually a good long time!) you know how to do it yourself with your own serotonin.

I rarely see the world the way it is anymore, and at present I prefer it that way. The intense anxiety it brings is disturbing and have been slowly coping with it's negativity. I find it very difficult to take psychodelics anymore as I am plunged into fear and grief - but I myself know this is just yet another red veil to be popped up - an immaturity in my beliefs and observations.

Eventually I will be able to take psychodelics, and see the world for that which it is, and hopefully still have the ability to have fun in the superficial game we've made.

I think that is what I was confronted with - to fully accept what I had seen I had to give up my ability to laugh at the television to hate the antagonists, and to feel a need in society. The vision was pure, omnipotent, and unjudgeing, but my ego kept getting in it's way.

 

[IJesusChrist]

After reading this, I have realized something important...

If, for any reason, my writings dawn upon you in any way (direct or indirectly) as negative, please realize that I am a sole learner and may be falsely holding a road map of something I know nothing about. I want to be safe in what I say, but at the same time, relate.

I have, tragically, thought that what I was saying to someone would help, or relieve them in some way- but was mistaken. I do not want that to happen again. If you find that you are taking my word, and are being confronted with a negative outcome, realize it!

 

[Schwanke668]

Ok. First off. Dont get down on yourself so much. You have a lot more latent ability then you realize and a lot more to offer the community then you might be willing to accept. Sorry. Just had to say that. Dont know why. Just know its true.

With that having been said, my somewhat subconscious reason for saying all that is I have found what you have said to be VERY beneficial and I can see you are saying it from the heart AND going beyond yourself to say it. I can see you growing as much from this as I am even though I feel you may not feel you are.

I can totally understand where fear and paranoia come from, I had it for years when I first came home after getting saved. For me I had a 3 year situation where half my mind was this awakening that you are talking about and half of my mind was 'I wanna be like Jesus cuz everyone in my life says I should be."

The problem was that their definition of Jesus was not for me. It isnt to say it was wrong. I believe it was right for them. But I believe the Jesus that speaks to me, that portion of him, is much more 'liberal' then I was being taught and even in that the one I was being taught was even more liberal then anyone you see on tv!

With that having been said I feel that your road map is quite accurate and I can see how you are beginning in a strange way (to me at least) to learn how to reinterpret it with confidence knowing now that someone is listening and confirming and augmenting it and not bitching you out about it.

I personally am having a hard time seeing WHY people have given you so much flack for what you think and feel. It seems very real and very genuine to me and I feel that all perspectives are useful. Even if being antagonistic sometimes feels 'painful' there are many things that can be seen in the natural world where the pain is part of the growth.

Take pruning a plant for example. To prune a plant you have to cut or sometimes break off the portion of the plant that is growing improperly or not up to the level and detail that you want out of the plant. The more you want to refine the growth structure of the plant the more you have to prune it.

Sometimes getting in fights on bulletin boards are people pruning each other. Yeah, it can suck and yeah people dont always do it right. We're all human. But the strong will grow from it and the weak can be healed by others. In the end so long as the community doing the pruning of each other is faithful to each other the end result is positive even if the means is sometimes painful.

I thoroughly and completely thank God, yes Jesus Christ, for your entrance into my life, or maybe I should say my entrance into yours? I dont know. I thank him for the entire community here as well and all that I am getting out of this. As much as I may never find a 'real shaman' the growth that I have experienced here in the past what week? I dont even know, feels like a month, has been astronomical for me.

I specifically think that God planned it for me to find this place a month ago, have my 'fear' of being rejected conquered in one of my trippy without drugs experiences then have me decide to get drunk on Christmas which I havnt done in atleast 2 years and lower my inhibitions even consciously enough to connect.

I believe that he orchestrated events and thoughts, maybe even emotions, that even when you first saw me as a troll you still didnt reject me outright. You could have said, ah piss off, he's just here to dick around with us. Or the whole community could have for that reason, I have had that reaction other places.

I dont know what else to say. I think this whole experience was meant to be and is still 'meaning to be' and 'will be'.

THANK YOU FOR BEING YOU DAMMIT! ALL OF YOU VERY STRANGE PEOPLE!

 

[ophiuchus]

life is psychedelic

 

[Schwanke668]

life is psychedelic

I pretty much believe that now.

I've started through another phase of awakening. Had an entire night where I thought I was tripping my balls off and my wife was too and we woke up this morning and she was like. Oh I was just saying that to mess with you. And I was a little upset but then I said, wait, so you WERNT tripping but you seemed like you were in the same place that I was and I KNOW I was off my nut, so was I crazy? And she was like No you were just fine, didnt see anything wrong with you or any wierdness and you know I usually catch that.

The entire night I felt like I was going through that week again where there were two of me. The me that is 'normal' and the me that is 'tripping'. Like on the one hand I was carrying on a conversation with her yet on the other hand I was swiming between the thoughts of the conversation, flowing back and forth between our consciosnesses experience the shared communal experience of the conversation.

I guess I think what goes on with me is when I am 'in transition' from 'state to state'. My psyche splits temporarily so that I can be aware of the transition at the same time as having it happen. Kind of like a safety net to keep me from really going off the deep end. Then as I normalize they re-merge. I get a sense from probing the experience backward in time that my mind was leap frogging through the transition. A piece would jump while the other was normal, reverse, etc until they both jumped to the same location at the end. Kind of like a dual path state diagram or two threads in a computer programming process.

I feel a lot better this morning after she 'woke me up' letting me know that she probably wasnt tripping and I certainly didnt seem whacko to her.

 

[IJesusChrist]

It isn't that you are transitioning from state to state, it's that you are able to notice it. :wink:

 

[ophiuchus]

everyone is transitioning all the time, it's just a matter of them admitting it. sometimes people dont know that they are tripping, so of course theirs a problem with their admittance. there's another problem in the word "tripping" being a loaded word. do try to be careful of them. try inhaling pure oxygen for a minute or so and you'll get the point. we dont live without tripping balls all the time. it's just a very specific degree* of tripping balls that is (specific to) our environment, our atmosphere here on "earth", which we in turn call "normal". another loaded word...

the degree is roughly 78 percent giver or take nitrogen, 20% give or take oxygen (there are other trace elements). play with the ratio and veeerrrry strange things begin to become noticeable about the air you breathe

 

[Schwanke668]

So then we could consider the possibility that our 'natural' mind state would be entirely diffrent if we were created on a planet that had a higher or lower ratio of oxygen to nitrogen. LIke if the whole world breathed 10% more oxygen all the time.

But yeah. Modification of human brainwave patterns is near constant as nothing in our living systems is 100
% stable. Smoke a cigarette and the carbon monoxide reduces that oxygen ratio and the nicotine affects the blood which affects the brain chemistry. Might be .000001% within tolerances of the subjective normal but its still a change. Smoke a pack a day for life and youve had a slightly different brain chemistry all your life then someone who doesnt.

I actually have trained myself in self inducing nitrous experiences by holding my breath. I can hold my breath for a period of time and then manipulate my thought patterns to block out the 'need' to breath and induce a 'hiccup' in my brain patterns. I use it when I want to shift my perspective of something in a radical direction, the lack of oxygen forces my brain to rethink everything as I come back into breathing. Nice thing is since its self induced I can never truly hurt myself provided im sitting down as I will just pass out and start breathing again. I havnt gotten that far yet but Ive been able to do greater and greater 'distances' in this 'micro trip'.