“On extracting...” — A critical look

[magickpencil]

I think at this stage in the fight for our recognition of legitimacy that it is actually hurting us more than it is helping us to extract [psychoactive] compounds unless you are part of a university or medical research.

I strongly [encourage] people to stop extracting DMT (or any other compound such as mescaline), I think what would truly help would be for people to go out there and get degrees and try to do legitimate research instead of illegal research.

…

I just see the extraction of things like San Pedro and Mimosa as leading down a bad path... a path to criminalization. If we grow the plants and use them safely and responsibly we can "fly below the radar".

Extraction labs for DMT and such look like meth labs... they really do to the average person, we just don't need that connected to plant spirituality. I'm sorry.

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I believe that each of us have a DUTY to protect these plants, it blows my mind that people can have entheogenic experiences with cactus and ayahuasca and not want to grow the plants... that was the first message I got! The Holy Cactus spoke to me "PROTECT ME, SHARE ME, CHERISH ME, LOVE THY EARTH FROM WHICH YOU ARE BORE, PROTECT IT, SHARE IT, CHERISH IT".

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The way you simply laugh off any suggestion that maybe not all users of amphetamines, opiates, etc. are hopeless degenerate junkies or ignorantly destroying their lives is offensive to a lot of us here.

Perhaps your not all like that but some are... the problem I have with it is the hedonistic pursuit of pleasure with total disregard to one's own health and the people around them. Perhaps some use these drugs responsibly... some... but they are likely few... BUT... what does it teach them? What GOOD comes from it? My goal is to prove to people that good, actual pure happy butterflies and fucking sunshine comes from OMFG drugs! And the good I'm talking about is the good you see after somebody takes Iboga to cure heroin addiction, or takes Ayahuasca to deal with their depression or uses Peyote and meets God... you don't met God or really learn much of anything on drugs like heroin... you just FEEL good, but that doesn't mean it's good.

- Source

Good points worth considering!

 

[Teonanacapilli]

I think at this stage in the fight for our recognition of legitimacy that it is actually hurting us more than it is helping us to extract [psychoactive] compounds unless you are part of a university or medical research.

I strongly [encourage] people to stop extracting DMT (or any other compound such as mescaline), I think what would truly help would be for people to go out there and get degrees and try to do legitimate research instead of illegal research.

I don't know, that seems ridiculous to me. Not everyone who is doing these extractions wants to spend/waste all those years in a school to get a degree. I sure as fuck don't! I think our energy would be better placed in legalization/legitimization first, rather than research.

I agree that we have a duty to protect these plants though! And he's got a point about those "sensory" drugs as I like to call them, that most people cannot use them responsibly. But I think that you can gain insight from any experience, even if your judges label them "hedonistic". It's a human right to take what you want and put it in your body, and it's no one's place to judge you for it.

If psychedelics were legal and their responsible use was popularized (that would be a first for the west), I don't think nearly as many people would have addictions to anything at all; food, drug, sex, whatever.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Extraction labs for DMT and such look like meth labs... they really do to the average person, we just don't need that connected to plant spirituality. I'm sorry.

Maybe his views of chemistry need to be addressed, not the chemists.

This just seems like it was written by a 17 year old that had some insight that he wasn't able to really see into.

Extraction of a chemical from a plant bought from a person chopping it down in the rainforest is horrible. I hate it. You're completely immersed in capitalistic ideologies if this is what you partake in and are OK with. The problem does not lay within the extraction - it lays within the negative connotations associated with chemicals such as acids, bases and non-polars. People see, and think "Dirty" when they are aware of these objects and scenarios. That is not the problem, nor the intention of the person carrying out an extraction. The extraction is for insight, and respect for a plant that is far superior in cognitive ability than serotonin alone.

I personally have Peruvian Torch growing, Acacia Growing, and sassafras... That is because I love horticulture, and biology.

This is what he needs to be insighted into:

Growing your plants in your house in a pot with fertilizers and artificial light is no more fucking natural than buying it from someone else and using synthetic chemicals to extract the compound. You cannot mimic the natural environment of these plants in a ceramic/plastic pot. Planting your own trees in your yard is about as natural as industrial agriculture, which is about as natural as pharmeceuticals.

Don't be so naive!

 

[magickpencil]

Somehow I knew I'd get lambasted for posting this

Extraction of a chemical from a plant bought from a person chopping it down in the rainforest is horrible. I hate it. You're completely immersed in capitalistic ideologies if this is what you partake in and are OK with.

I think this is the main point of the original author; not that it's fundamentally wrong to extract psychoactive substances from plant sources, but that it is wrong to indulge capitalist vendors by purchasing plant matter online, and it poses unnecessary risks to the "entheogen community" at large to be shipping legally ambiguous substances around

I guess some one at the DMT Nexus (for example) would argue that they're more enlightened than the average layman through their work w DMT, but I don't really understand how they can believe that when they're willingly supporting an unsustainable industry month after month by ordering their teacher plants from overseas; could such a person really be described as enlightened?; if this is the reality of the situation then maybe these people should lay off the DMT and learn to truly discipline their ego

(Growing temperamental exotic plants like, Mimosa hostilis, certainly takes discipline and engenders a high respect for the substances contained therein)

Who but an egomaniac would believe that constantly imbibing DMT does them or any one else any good?
A true psychedelic experience, I'd say, is life changing and implicitly unrepeatable due to the nature of revelation

Isn't the psychedelic experience about the insights gained and not the "episode" itself?; I'd say so, so it seems to me that a person who wants to dose DMT (or mescaline, or Psilocybes, etc.) weekly is enamored w the acute effects of a drug and NOT the spiritual insights prized by true philosophers / mystics / shamas / medicine men / etc.

 

[IJesusChrist]

1+

 

[spice]

"but that it is wrong to indulge capitalist vendors by purchasing plant matter online"


what, did you think the internet was created for your (or my) benefit? The only reason it exists at all is to ultimately further commerce, and to allow the government into our 'supermind', 'hivemind' 'collective consciousness' or whatever you'd like to call it.

I disagree with the premise of the original post.


You CANNOT take the 'moral high ground', there isn't one. If you are against it, for whatever reason, you are a prohibitionist, pure and simple....consider the alternatives you are indirectly advocating here;

'Don't do it'

'Go deal with felons and obtain it through the black market'

Do you see how the motivation DOESN'T MATTER....ALL THOSE PEOPLE @ the copshop AND CHURCH think they are 'doing right' too

 

[magickpencil]

You CANNOT take the 'moral high ground', there isn't one. If you are against it, for whatever reason, you are a prohibitionist, pure and simple....consider the alternatives you are indirectly advocating here;

'Don't do it'

'Go deal with felons and obtain it through the black market'

Do you see how the motivation DOESN'T MATTER....ALL THOSE PEOPLE @ the copshop AND CHURCH think they are 'doing right' too

I'm not talking about "doing right," I'm talking about a practical consideration
There are vendors right now selling PSILOCYBE SPP. SCLEROTIA to customers in the US and elsewhere
I feel, intuitively, that this jeopardizes the obtainability of Psilocybe spp. spores ... call me old fashioned

What's so bad about not doing it if you can't procure it yourself using legal tools?
Where does your sense of entitlement come from?

If you are against it, for whatever reason, you are a prohibitionist, pure and simple

I'm curious about your stance on the RC market
Consider what you're indirectly advocating here:

' Buy an unknown chemical (or chemicals), at an unknown purity, at an unknown dosage, from an unknown source to satiate the need to get high '

THIS ISN'T LEGITIMATE BUSINESS, this is a sneaky cottage industry driven by a perverse supply & demand
People are only demanding a product like this because of a fucked up war on drugs that makes any safe, informed alternative illegal

In actuality, you missed the best alternative of all, and the one that SWIM officially indirectly advocates:

' Dose self-sustainably '

You can piss, moan, and sling blame about not being able to buy reasonably priced organic tomatoes at the local supermarket ... or you can gather the materials and fucking DIY

 

[spice]

"I'm not talking about "doing right," I'm talking about a practical consideration"

who is defining 'practical' ? You ? Bush? Obama?


My "stance on the RC market"?

why, it's the same as my stance towards airplane glue, I should be able to buy it, if someone is able to sell it. This is a 'time-honored' tradition.....it's called 'trade'.....whether or not I misuse it is my personal responsibility, it is not for someone else to determine. What's the problem there?

"THIS ISN'T LEGITIMATE BUSINESS, this is a sneaky cottage industry driven by a perverse supply & demand"

thats a lot of moral positions you are taking in a small statement. How do you define 'legitimate'? What politicians say? your 'moral' compass? what criteria?

More importantly, who are you to dictate terms?

The fact that it 'can be' done by one's self should not necessarily exclude one from being able to purchase when it is convenient. Again, why punish the consumer? (isnt there enough?) If people were to truly want it stopped, this would be the wrong avenue to pursue that agenda by. Maybe they should focus their efforts on the sellers....the sellers are the ones that make it possible to buy. The demand only creates opportunity that the sellers exploit.

But that would force an examination of values.....and that's a dead-end road in this culture.


" Value ?"

" Whats that in dollars? "

 

[magickpencil]

Good response
Cheers