+Nutrition = +Trip?

[dan1el]

Please share as much information here as you have on how increased diet = increased trip experience.

Someone told me that psilocybin works off of B12, and you need to have sufficient levels of it in order to trip good 'n hard; I was wondering, ALSO: what chemicals/foods can I ingest that will AIDE in having a VERY HARD, but GOOD, CHILLED, LEARNING experience trip? Thanks.

 

[ophiuchus]

well, eating properly will definitely increase the overall baseline feeling of health before the trip, so it would definitely also start you off on the right foot going into a trip. i don't know if there are really good specific foods to eat before a trip, but things there are things to avoid for sure. but these are things that should just generally be avoided in life. things like sugar, sweets, pastries, heavily processed foods, foods with artificial colors, just to name a few... also, im not sure about the b12 thing, im pretty sure, nobody has discovered that specific vitamins or minerals are depleted with psilocybin use, but it couldn't hurt to take foods with b12 beforehand, because many peoples diets are really lacking in that nutrient. your source for that information might be thinking of nitrous oxide, which in fact, will deplete b12, but so long as you account for that loss by taking some before and after, you should be ok with that as well, not that i'm recommending it...

so long as your meal is balanced, drawing upon multiple food groups, and relatively low in fat and sugar, you should be great.

(moved to nutrition and health section)

 

[dan1el]

ophiuchus,
Thank you for your advice, corrections and confirmations; I appreciate it very much. Just fyi... green smoothies is one of the essential things to eat to receive the MOST nutrition from the LEAST amount of food groups.

Love you,
Daniel

 

[ophiuchus]

yes, greens are definitely loaded with nutrients. lately, ive been eating several different types of greens every day. spinach and arugula salads in the morning, sometimes other greens mixed in, with something like quinoa and or rice sprinkled on top with a few sliced eggs to top it all off. with a small amount of dressing, this has got to be the best way to stay moving in the intense heat of summer.

another thing, i started introducing chlorella into my diet as well, for it's purported ability to detoxify the body of things like flouride and mercury (which we ALL, for the most part consume to some degree). i've yet to notice definitive results, but i've only just begun taking it, you have to introduce it slowly, or else face diarrhea :lol: . just though i should mention it because it's green (and will make your poo green :lol: ).

 

[dan1el]

Really, the best way is to ingest them as liquid, OR to chew them into oblivion. lol

Just because of what we are, sometimes it is easier to add some fruit with the greens and make a smoothie.

 

[ophiuchus]

i also love them sauteed, like spinach, or simmered like collards or turnip greens. add a little onion/jalapeno, maybe some pieces of bacon/bbq meats, mmm. if you're an omnivore, that is.

 

[H2O2]

As MAOIs tend to increase the body load (i.e. stomach complains, cramps, feelings of confusion, etc) for many people,
you may want to avoid foods that are associated. I didn't realize that olive oil, tea leaves, cigarette smoke and gingko all had MAOI effects! An I'm sure many more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_ ... t_of_MAOIs

I'm realizing that this is a more complicated biochemical reaction than I assumed.
Still trying to figure it out. For instance:

~ Does monoamine oxidase just break down psilocybin and psilocin and weaken the effects in general?

~ Would eating many other things that use up that MAO have the same effect as taking a MAOI?

~ Would MAOI alter the ratio of psilocybin to the other psychoactive molecules in mushrooms, etc ?

~ Or, does MAO break those down as well?


Not sure if staying off the other foods that interact with MAOIs is relevant as well...what do you all think?
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml

Sorry if this is off topic, seems like it fits with diet and 'trip'.
Just, the flip side in a way.

Thanks.

 

[ophiuchus]

hmm, i'd be interested to know as well...

 

[IJesusChrist]

1Does monoamine oxidase just break down psilocybin and psilocin and weaken the effects in general?

2Would eating many other things that use up that MAO have the same effect as taking a MAOI?

3Would MAOI alter the ratio of psilocybin to the other psychoactive molecules in mushrooms, etc ?

4Or, does MAO break those down as well?
Thanks.

1. Yes, basically. - well no... It removes some psilocybin/psilocin. Making the quantity you actually experience less than what is present in the shrooms. Psilocybin is still psilocybin. When it get's cleaved of its amino group, it no longer has psychoactive properties (cannot bind to receptors in the brain).
2. No - MAO's are enzymes, which means they are catalysts. They themselves do not get 'used up' in the process.
3. Not positive how this is distinguished from 1. All mono amines get oxidized. Hence, mono amine oxidase. Most psychoactives contain an amine, and get broken down by MAO enzymes.
4. See 3.

Monoamine oxidases are enzymes that cleave amines. They release ammonia. This gets pretty complicated, and is very specific to the compound in question. All amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) have amino-groups. The body can remove these (MAO's) and also add them. The body can build up or remove certain amino-compounds.

I actually understand this stuff now after my biochem class! cool.

Anyways, MAOi compounds act by inhibiting MAO enzymes (obviously). This is done by a lock (MAO) and key (MAOi) mechanism. The MAOi compound covalently or in some other manner bonds to MAO's in the body, deactivating them for some time.

 

[H2O2]

Hey, thanks for the information.
Never taken a biochem class, and biology was a long time ago.

So...basically...


1. MAOis just allow more of the active ingredients of mushrooms (psilocybin--->psilocin, norbaeocystin, baeocystin, whatever, etc) to cross the bbb?

2. The reports of higher body load, nausea, etc, found with MAOi + Mushrooms would likely read about the same without MAOis...if the dose of mushrooms was increased? I.e. MAOis do nothing more than potentiate the substance overall. Sorry I can't work the idea any clearer than that, hope you understand.

3. There are no bioflavinoids or non monoamines, in mushrooms, or in the diet that may react with something in mushrooms, that may not be 'psychotropic' but increase nausea? This is on the other side of the spectrum from '+Nutrition = +Trip'. This would be something like' +Some weird Interaction in your diet w/ mushrooms = -Trip'. Where ' -Trip' means (not 'harder' or 'softer') but 'less clear' and... with more bodily complaints to distract your mind & make you uncomfortable.

Surely, there must be more detailed answer to Dan1el's question than 'eat healthy and exercise', no offense Allusion, ya did good, it's always a needed reminder and part of Set and Setting, which is always a valuable guide. :wink:

I'm just trying to work every angle here and hate to see the thread die off with so many avenues still, seeminlgy, ripe for exploration. I don't mind prattling away making an ass of myself possibly, :lol: it's the internet, right? Keeping it light and fun and friendly. And making an ass of myself is what I do best.


P.S. This whole topic reminds me of why I want to go back to college, how interesting and life affirming and amazing Biology is! Getting knee deep in da functional groups, da polymer principles, da tertiary structures and all da wacky, nerdy 'minutia' of physical existence.

Lovely.

Thanks. Can't wait to see what happens next...

 

[IJesusChrist]

MAO's will inhibit anything with an easily accessible amine. This may be toxins, psychoactives, nutrition, etc.

MAOi's thusly allow more toxins, psychoactives, nutrition in the body. If you have a diet with many many different types of exotic fruits and vegetables and meats and... many things, the higher chance you are going to come across a toxin that is allowed in (bad) by MAOi activity.

I do not know what in shrooms gives you nausea, but my thoughts would be that MAOi's would increase this probability of getting it.

Good diet doesn't necessarily mean MAOi's won't make you sick (or even kill you!) - there are plenty of foods out there that are very healthy, but taken with an MAOi become toxic.

 

[H2O2]

I don't feel nausea unless there's MAOis added. That's my point.

...that adding MAOis to the mix seems to increase body load for many people. Not just me.
And that MAOis are found in a whole slew of things. Cigarettes, Gingko, Tea! Etc. The lists seem inconclusive...and contradictory. So I ask here to clarify, if anyone has anything useful that will clear it up.

Anyways, if you search some trip reports you'll see for yourself y'know?
Here's one example:

01-03-2007, 01:43
ive done rue with shrooms. i had a very... uncomfortable time. it wasnt a "bad" trip, however, id never do that again. my body felt like i was being drawn and quartered, i had intense cold-like symptoms (cramps, runny nose, fluxuating temperature), and almost felt like i was flying forward at warp speed. mentally there was not much difference except in potency and duration. physically it was enough to distract from the more enjoyable aspects of tripping.

i understand that other factors may have effected how my body felt. i still wouldnt do it again personally, but dont regret trying it.

There are many reports online hat echo this sentiment. My own experiences bear this out.
And as I got older, the body load seemed worse. Maybe it's my liver or the enzyme that codes for MAO? Who knows?

But, it seems that MAOi + Mushrooms is, for many people, qualitatively!, a different experience than just a higher dose of mushrooms.

That's really my only point about bringing up MAOis--->Be careful, they're everywhere, and they make some people feel like they've been poisoned! Ever had a raw clove of garlic on an empty stomach? Yeah. Like that. It gets your attention.

3. Are there bioflavinoids or non monoamines in mushrooms, or in the diet that may react with something in mushrooms, that may not be 'psychotropic' but increase nausea or body load?

This is on the other side of the spectrum from '+Nutrition = +Trip'. This would be something like' +Some weird Interaction between your diet & mushrooms = '-Trip'. Where ' -Trip' means (not 'harder' or 'softer') but 'less clear' and... with more bodily complaints to distract your mind & make you uncomfortable.

Surely, there must be more detailed answer to Dan1el's question...

Endless avenues for debate and research there...



And, I found this nugget, from the...uhhh...'RollinBallzCrew' :shock:

About Rolling

MDMA speeds up serotonin and dopamine release and use.
you get high
serotonin runs out
dopamine goes where serotonin normally would.
oxidized dopamine molecules cause damage to nerves.
The higher your serotonin levels are before you Roll,
the less dopamine will become oxidized.
The less dopamine in your system the less the chance of
oxidized dopamine forming.

Ingredients Needed

MDMA
Rolaids
Grapefruit juice
Prozac
Vitamin B-6
Vitamin C
5-HTP
DLPA
L-Glutamine
Magnesium

(etc, etc, it's a big page)

http://www.rollinballzcrew.com/preload.shtml

Not going to post the entire webpage again here but, basically, something like that about 'preloading' for psilocybin mushrooms would be useful. Okay then, right right.

Cheerio!

Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk!

 

[IJesusChrist]

Well yeah - it may also be the way people take MAOi. Syrian rue itself causes discomfort, and many people don't realize how much they should take (its a very small amount needed).

I would be interested if someone took a pure MAOi + shrooms on a strict diet and see the outcomes.

I get nausea on mushrooms themselves.

 

[ophiuchus]

i tried to cover the basics, stuff that just about everyone could do. however, i am still very much interested learning (and sharing) the finer points as well. a "preload" for mushrooms could be of huge importance if it indeed turns out that there is a tried and true method. any advice welcomed here!

 

[IJesusChrist]

I too have been strongly interested in 'preloading'. Making sure you are at your absolute BEST to trip, so you can make the most out of it.

I'll research this when I have some more time, but I'll say (at least for me) gooood solid sleep is a necessity.

 

[hanrry]

These are things that should just generally be avoided in life. things like sugar, sweets, pastries, heavily processed foods, foods with artificial colors, just to name a few... also, im not sure about the b12 thing, im pretty sure, nobody has discovered that specific vitamins or minerals are depleted with psilocybin use, but it couldn't hurt to take foods with b12 beforehand, because many peoples diets are really lacking in that nutrient.

 

[austin432]

Nutrition and trip is equal because when diet is good then trip also effect and they are also good that,s why diet is very important role to our health and our body and trip, when diet is not good then automatically trip is down and it is not good, that,s why its effect to diet for trip, diet is always healthy and good.

 

[ophiuchus]

make sure you POOP before you trip too haha! you'll feel so much lighter and refreshed. it goes a long way in terms of mindstate going into it. i like to poop first thing in the morning to start my day off right

 

[Mrboxey]

Well, in terms of getting the most out of your THC experience, eating any really fatty food will help you trip better. Plan on eating like a McDonalds BigMac about 15 to 20 mins before you plan to smoke a joint, or eat one while smoking a joint to help the intake of the THC.

Also, if you eat a Big Mac and then eat a special brownie right after, the THC gets absorbed better by the body and it also sets you up for a lesser happening of the munchies. If you eat a healthy balanced diet, and only plan on tripping once a week or so, you shouldn't experience the munchies with the "McMethod" for edibles and a Big Mac

Although, for some reason after that session, I like to take a nap and let it whisk me away to some fancy dreamland, and then of course when I wake up, I gotta get me some good Chinese food

 

[Barett]

Hi Daniel,
We must have nutritive diet plan to meet our body requirements for our physical activities, to lead healthy and active lifestyle and to prevent ourselves from defines or any long term health issues. Vegetables and fruits are best source of nutrition so add raw food more in your meal plans.