Money should be discontinued.

[Apeiron]

Honest question to help me gain perspective:

Are we denying those of unfavorable circumstance, that naturally possess less capacity, of more possession?
Rewarding those of favorable circumstance, with naturally more capacity, with more possession?
Or both?

no because the training and education will be free therefore circumstance will have nothing to do with it
it would be a level playing field in that regard
the only thing stopping the grocery bagger from being a doctor would be either lack of will to be one or a genuine ineptitude for the subject

Thank you and I appreciate your answer
I was referring to the present, though.
Anyone elses input on this question would be appreciated as well.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Because I "agree with inequity" I am corrupt eh?

Again, you are being extremely judgmental in a way that it not warranted whatsoever.

I think your obsession with "equality" is a flaw in your thought process in and of itself. You want to paint everything with a wide brush and seem to indicate that all issues, all topics, and factors can fall under your equality umbrella and I don't think that is true.

Every person's life has value. Every person should be judged on the content of their character and not thought to be a "better person" because of the house they live in or the car they drive etc.

HOWEVER, why should everyone have to be equal in all things? There is nothing "corrupt" about that belief. Why should the grocery bagger have all the same things as the doctor. I don't see why that is some inherent right?

Why should we all live in the same house, have the same car, have the same appliances? Here is what you are forgetting...you think that will take away greed in our society? I don't believe so. If everyone has all the same possessions, don't you think people will still want their neighbors wife? Do you think people will stop wanting what isn't theirs or stop wanting excess? If everyone had one flat screen TV, there will be plenty of people who want to have 2...and if no one will give it to them, they'll take it.

You are assuming that by taking away money, you are going to change the human condition...you are only changing superfluous things and not addressing the real problem.

Sure I don't want a poor person to need a lung transplant and have no way to get it....but do I think that no matter what your contribution is to society, you should reap the same benefits? Absolutely not. IMO wanting what you haven't earned in life is greed.

I genuinely don't understand why we all have to have the same possessions? In certain aspects, people with higher capacity are more valuable....medical advancements, technical advancements etc generally come at the hands of people with a higher mental capacity. For those contributions to society, I am fine with them owning a bigger house than me. If it bothers you, then to me that comes off as greed.

It is very different to deny someone basic human rights and to deny them an in ground swimming pool. If you can explain to me how those are the same, then please do.

When was the last time you did something for someone less fortunate than you? Do you go to the soup kitchen or the homeless shelter.....my point is that these solutions are not practical and before people start taking away money or some other giant change like that, maybe we need to start looking at OURSELVES and working on our personal issues first.

You said somewhere in a thread that you used to be extremely deceitful and as bad as they come or something to that effect and that you "still have your moments." If that is the case, why not work on yourself and "those moments" before you try to come up with a solution for everyone else.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Sorry forgot to say, I think this is really well said Crimzen

"its silly to think we'll ever be entirely equal, we're all different and i wouldnt want it any other way
if everything was equal it would be like a flat line rather than this vibrancy"

 

[Crimzen]

:wink: thanks

 

[Apeiron]

Just a thought..

People get discouraged from entering a field they would really love either by insufficient salary in the field, by absorbitant fees for schooling to enter the field they desire or they haven't experienced enough and found what they would love doing.

The vast majority of people that "don't want to work" "legitimately" or otherwise, are discouraged by menial respect or salary of a field in an overly bias world, insufficient mental stimuli, physical justification, or eventually they and/or others do or will find it "cool" or an endearing aspect of their persona.

Anything to add?

 

[Jerika_Rain]

I think plenty of people do not want to work because they want to travel, play with their kids, watch tv all day...I think people want to do what they want and not HAVE to do anything.

 

[Apeiron]

I think plenty of people do not want to work because they want to travel, play with their kids, watch tv all day...I think people want to do what they want and not HAVE to do anything.

Lol... Agent

 

[Apeiron]

Ask yourselves
"what sane person would turn all this down?"

Free homes.
Free school. (child care included)
Free food.
Free utilities.
Free unemployment insurance.
Free healthcare.
You work less hours where you wanna work
You go where you wanna go
Get what you want to get for free and because anyone can have them you wouldn't want as much.
Every person is just as individual but at the same time treated as an equal because competition is nullified.
Virtually No violence.
Virtually no  poverty.

If they did they'd have to be an agent.

Get smart.

 

[Apeiron]

Why would someone see truth in this?

Because people can't wake up and see what's being done to them.

Why can't they wake up?

Because enthogens canabinoids and phsychs are not only discouraged but mostly illegal.

Why?.....

Hazardous?
Less hazardous than the average household cleaner.
Addictive?
Less addictive than tostitos or chewing gum.

Always Ask Why - AAW

 

[itsscience]

Are we denying those of unfavorable circumstance, that naturally possess less capacity, of more possession?
Rewarding those of favorable circumstance, with naturally more capacity, with more possession?
Or both?

This is the way the universe works. There is no equality in the natural systems. Life and evolution are based on survival of the fittest, the best adapted for their environment flourish and the less fit get less or starve. The lion that is born with a genetic code that gives it bigger muscles, bigger teeth and a better ability to run faster gets more food and more lionesses in its pride. The universe does not reward mediocrity.

The communist/marxists ideals that are being pushed in this thread do not work and are an unrealistic attempt to force a manmade concept on a natural order. Any system that requires equal doling out of food, work, possessions etc requires someone to decide how those things are doled out. That person immediately has more power than anyone else and is then open to greed and corruption. Money doesn't corrupt people but power does.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

An agent of what? Common sense? Realism?

Yeah I don't want everything handed to me. I have a little something called pride.

I agree with itsscience...why reward mediocrity? It just creates a mediocre society.

I think you would like so desperate to be insightful that you are willing to put bad ideas out there. I also think that you probably are under the influence and think your ideas are better than what they really are.

Be sober and reread this thread. Ignore some of both of our immature jabs but just look at what people are saying. Just take a minute to think about all the fatal flaws presented to you about your idea. Step outside of our wishes and look at logic.

Ps I have never heard of anyone with a tostitos addiction. Pretty sure people don't rob and kill over chips and salsa.

 

[IJesusChrist]

My cents -

For those of you lost in the question of how money can be lived without, that is a perfect answer for a capitalist. You are a capatilist, almost by blood.

You have alot to read about in anarchism, marxism, and other alternatives.

Granted money itself - not a problem. People create ideals and ideologies around money which bring it to an evil; greed.

This is one of the most complex topics you can think of, it is the drive for all of us, yet it is made by us, it is not a mineral, it is not a food, it is not any source of energy - it is a symbol, yet we all want it and we all need it to live (especially if we're browsing a forum).

To say it could be discontinued is a bit premature in your knowledge, but to say that money is an absolute necessity, you are to a point of being blinded. There are very basic concepts that need to be put in place where money will no longer cause such evil - but they are too basic to be studied, and too basic for the 21st century to uphold.

If I told you that you had to live in downtown to work in down town, you would probably get angry with me, say its not possible, say it's too expensive, or a number of other things. At that point I would tell you not to live in downtown, and get a new job closer to where you live - you would say it doesn't pay enough, and it doesn't accomodate your needs. The problem is not the money, but the ideology in which you live.

It is not OK to drive to work every day
It is not OK to work from dawn until dusk
It is not OK for prices near your work to be higher than your wages
It is not OK to have your work not fit your interests, or if they don't you need to be compensated.

What has happened is a hurling over of ideas that were not OK, but nobody at the time saw the problem. The free way is an ideological monster, a hidden domination over us all - it is paid for by you at some point, but facilitates movement from the inner city to the outer, where your job and your house are respectively. Yet you cannot live in a big city - the crime, the pollution, the noise. All of these are by products of the early onset of mega-capitalism, mega-consumerism, and in fact, ALL stem from the highway and freeway system itself.

What you are all argueing over is not the same thing, and argueably none of it is created by money. You should take your discussion to the ideological advancement of consumerism, post-consumerism, capitalism, international trade, internation corporations, owners and CEO's, interest in banks, debt, and beyond. Getting rid of the paper that institutes it all will just make the beast angry.

 

[Apeiron]

If u had a job u loved, u would want to do it as much as they would let u, wouldn't u?

 

[IJesusChrist]

I have a job right now that I wish I could work more...

 

[Reasonablelogic]

If everyone does their part and contribute as inhabitants of this planet, there wouldn't be a need for profit. Exp- Cultivators cultivate, researchers research, etc.

What do you lose if you take away the monetary system today? The tools and resources needed to develop would still be here. It's only a simple matter of letting go, and moving on to better frames of mind that would benefit all. This system has become unsustainable, and eventually, it will collapse. Then what?

 

[Apeiron]

If everyone does their part and contribute as inhabitants of this planet, there wouldn't be a need for profit. Exp- Cultivators cultivate, researchers research, etc.

What do you lose if you take away the monetary system today? The tools and resources needed to develop would still be here. It's only a simple matter of letting go, and moving on to better frames of mind that would benefit all. This system has become unsustainable, and eventually, it will collapse. Then what?

We would all have to learn the hard way with misery and suffering...
Ride 'til the wheels fall off.

 

[Apeiron]

Ask yourselves and don't be afraid to ask others..

Would you live in a country for which citizenship you had to work less hours at your current job for no pay or go to school as much as you want for no tuition and eventually work wherever you want for less hours, as many times as you wanted if you didn't have to pay any bills, receive a free balanced diet, receive the best of/any of whatever products/services you desire/require upon availability/request, free of charge, if it also meant no one in said country would ever die, kill, or commit any crime as a direct or indirect result of poverty?
:|

 

[itsscience]

If everyone does their part and contribute as inhabitants of this planet

This, in a nut shell, is the problem with this whole concept. It is a very naive thing to believe that all people will do this, you are quite correct in saying "if all people did their part" it would work. However, you should realise from your own experiences that all people won't do their part and a lot of people physically or mentally can't do their part.

There are lots and lots of lazy people out there. There are lots and lots of evil people out there. There are lots and lots of mentally and physically disable people out there.

The socialist/communist ideals that many of you argue for are unrealistic in terms of human nature, we are not bees or ants, we don't just "do our part".

You may as well say "if one third of us crapped food, one third of us crapped water and one third of us crapped housing, we'd have no need of money" it would be just as plausible as expecting all people to do their part.

 

[Apeiron]

The government doesn't speak(literally) on the same wavelength that most minority people can understand. That's why they don't see the relentless stories that are going on affecting the world, controlled by people with enough money to do something about it. Not finding it mentally stimulating and interesting enough to pay attention to and participate in. The world is nothing more than a country continually trying to conquer every other way of life in the world at all costs to the detriment of it's morals, dignity, and environment. Burning through massive amounts of resources excellerating towards it's ultimate failure at the speed of thought. Until we mutilate our selves in self-contempt in the pursuit of an ever raising bar of perceived perfection. Leading us down the road of the richest yet weakest, most knowledgable and proactive with skills granted to him/her attained by a life of privilege or given a stress free environment where focus on studies is optimised to achieve "the bar" that was raised to keep every person below it, below it. Letting them rule their environment unabated to putrification and detriment of the majority of their peers. Murdering their character with either arrows, bullets, religion or economy it's most thoughtful, conserving, and modest citizens. Denying all negativity towards itself and hoarding its intentions and actions in countless accounts of alleged and un-alleged questionable activities in confidential files and black ink. Forcing opinion through propaganda. Forcing it's citizens to conform with the stereotypes it broadcasts and perpetuates or die in the eyes of it's popular citizenry becoming undesirable to to themselves forcing consumerism towards an ever rising standard fueling to further facilitate the means and justification for its imposition and acquisition, on and of, more and more commodities, and consumers, effectively, perpetually pulling the rug out from under the entire world to sustain this facade of capitalism.

A lot of people don't know that we have no choice at this point.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Us vs them, again.