Money should be discontinued.

[Apeiron]

It breeds greed and greed destroys nature. Having something that destroys nature is counterproductive to our survival. Greed corrupts reasoning. Destroying morals and the mind in the process, perpetuating the destruction of the natural environment and each other. Most environments not indusive to inspiration of thoughts other than the destructive agents that created them.
Money is destroying us from the inside out and the environment that spawned us. When will we let it go

 

[Guest]

Propose a viable alternative.

 

[Mescaline]

I totally agree, that money is the root problem of our society. But like Tiax said, what would be a good alternative? One could say, trading the goods themselves directly without the currency, but I don't see that working on a global scale, with international trade and such; it's too complex I reckon.

This remembers me though of a poster/advertisement I see everyday on my way to university. It says:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|Money Corrupts (with a picture as a background of someone handing money to someone else)
|
|---
| Money Teaches (with a picture of African children being taught)
|
|---
|
| Money is good when used right. (or something in that manner, it's in dutch so.. :b)
|
|----ASN BANK----
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Commercialising like that just really ****** me off. The whole logic of it is just incorrect. The first statement says that money in itself corrupts. It is <the money> causing the corruption. This is correct.
The second statement though, is just completely wrong, or at least it's not in contrast with the first statement. It is not the money that teaches.. It's PEOPLE. The money is just used to build the school and pay the teachers. I really hate this kind of capitalistic propaganda, and I barely hate anything, but they are just using people's ignorance to their advantage. That's <evil> in my opinion..
I mean, if money would not exist, at all, the corruption from the first statement, caused by money, would cease to exist. But the children in Africa would still be taught, if money would not exist. As you don't need money to convey information. And if there would be no money, no money would be needed to build a school. You would just build it.
I just feel like putting up posters around that commercial, telling people to think for themselves, just for once in their short pitiful lives. As I've talked to people about this, and they either (1) understand what I'm saying, but don't care, or (2) they don't even understand my reasoning. And I don't know what is worse right now...
Ofcourse this reasoning of mine, rests on the assumption that there would be a functional world without money or any other substitute that would equally corrupt, and I just don't know if that is even possible.
But still, Banks/Capitalism, are/is now going so far as to use the arguments, that ANTI-capitalists use, to their own advantage, by twisting them a bit, and making it seem capitalism (i.e. money) is a blessing.
Trust in Capitalism just really relies on people's ignorance. And sadly most people are ignorant.
It's not a joke to say that only 5-10 percent of ALL people can actually think for themselves. I think it's 5-10% of the population that goes to university. Not saying, only people going to university are 'smart', but the numbers are still to the point, as there are also loads of ignorant people at universities; I'd even go as far to say that most of them are, meaning that even less than 5-10% are able to think clearly and for themselves.
It's a sad world... But then again, change your mindset, change the (way you experience) world. So maybe it's not such a sad world after all .
<You> are the creator of all things.

-sorry for the rant haha, it's just been on mind a lot lately-

 

[Apeiron]

Propose a viable alternative.

A viable alternative for money or true content?

 

[Apeiron]

A replacement for money IS "true content". 
Valuable objects are not only valuable because of the craftsmanship that went into them or the perceived beauty of them. The price is high because of demand. demand is created through adds that not only tell us what's new on the market but also use words like "better" and use our own empathy against us with actors in commercials with Cheshire grins on their faces holding using or driving these newer, shinier, better objects.
These things and even our peers make us feel like we're "not good enough" if we haven't jumped on the latest fads, using words from "lame" to "obsolete".
If everything was made available to everyone(virtually impossible I know) then their would be no desire for them. All value of material would be equalized and desired upon a need, not a want.
I realized to some this may make for a pretty boring world for some as far as product diverty but honestly how many different renditions of an iPad do we really need?.. Not to mention I personally would much rather live in a world with only 10 flavors of ice cream than one where people starve or get robbed or killed because of hunger or they "need" the money to buy the new pair of J's (Air Jordan(shoes)).
More priviledge would be the incentive for morality, civility and productivity in the clean manufacture or cultivation of exports or otherwise.
Countries would trade goods on a massive scale and individuals would have things you could equate to garage sales minus the sale. They would simply be ridding their domiciles of things that have little to no value to them any longer. In honest selflessness, giving the object to a "neighbor" to either borrow or keep depending on the perceived need, so on and so forth.
To get it started we would have to throw a monkey wrench in the works that run things now.
Stop watching tv or atlases commercials. Stop making people feel like shit for not living this fancy opulent life that no one  that has to actually work for a living really knows anything about. Start talking each other because everything we truly need is in ourselves and one another.

 

[Mescaline]

Stop watching tv or atlases commercials. Stop making people feel like shit for not living this fancy opulent life that no one  that has to actually work for a living really knows anything about. Start talking each other because everything we truly need is in ourselves and one another.

Sorry I skimmed through your post, and didn't read everything, as I'm very tired and about to go to bed.
Anyway, I already do all of those things, and yes this would be (the beginning to) the solution if everybody would act this way, but thing is... not all people act this way. Actually only a REALLY small minority does. And acting this way is regarded as weird by a lot of people - 'boring' is what comes to mind; or 'lame' as you stated yourself. So although you are right.. how are we going to accomplish this? Creating a dictatorship ordering everybody to behave that way would make them do it, but not believe it... not integrate the belief into their own personal belief, thus making no progress... And besides, dictatorship is just wrong, and goes against everythig I believe in. Just hanging up posters and doing talks on the subject certainly will help, but progress will be slow, as it is happening already, but.. sloooowly.

Thats all I have to say right now... too tired haha, gnight

 

[Jerika_Rain]

again with the most idealistic, unrealistic ideas. seems that you never consider...well consider any external factors...any aspects of human nature.

 

[Apeiron]

Come to the realization and learn to convey in an attempt to help others around you come to the realization that the world is a self destructive hamster-wheel-cage. And the majority of people who don't care about that fact are nothing but accessories in the largest longest greediest crime of a schemes ever concocted by a group of human beings too busy or opulent to ever bother with the American millionaires prescence. Convey with sinserity that we are wasting so much, killing each other so much, destroying our spaceship and our future. Learn the numbers, convey the numbers. Set an alarm in the office every time 10 people die of AIDS in Africa. Make calendars with different stats on them and cool illustrations. Be creative. But make it almost subliminal. Be as smart as the add execs. Think about how many adds the average American is bombarded with.. Every commercial, every bus stop bench, every billboard, every movie plug, every doctors or dentist office. The labels on every bottle of shampoo after we take it home and use it and sit it in the shower. The label is still bombarding our unconsious minds so we'll buy it again because its become "familiar", perhaps not even the best product. Yes even WE, ourselves, are walking billboards.

Let them know as if the lives of everyone you will ever or never love depends on it because it's no lie..
They'll get the picture sooner than you may think.

 

[Apeiron]

again with the most idealistic, unrealistic ideas. seems that you never consider...well consider any external factors...any aspects of human nature.

I have experienced true ego death
I have walked vicariously in my own shoes
I have looked in the mirror before and thought "yikes, what a disgusting primitive animal
I have empathized from perspectives I never thought possible.

I'm saying nothing in this world is random. Everything that happens in this world is the direct or indirect result of something or a combination of things.

Ha crazy thought just now. What if somehow we could organize a 10 minute "pause" every day. Every day at a random time every thing gets turned off, everyone stays still and does nothing but think. Exercise the mind. No tv no lights, beeping horns, text messages. Nothing but thought.
When was the last time you day dreamed in complete silence?
I know that thought was unrealistic but what if each individual allotted themselves a one hour long seclusion of reflection at any time of the day?

I am aware of the outside factors. They touch our minds with fear and discontent on an hourly basis. Let every body else know...

 

[Virgil]

If you want to live as a fucking hippie, free for you.
If you don't like adds on TV and billboard... Just don't give a shit. Nobody force you to watch them.
If you want to help your neighbor and the destitute, just do it and work for it, instead of teaching us your lessons in humanity.
If you want to be an opulent millionnaire, again, it's up to you to work harder and be more clever than anybody else.


That's just freedom...

 

[Apeiron]

Freedom for a few is blatant manipulation and enslavement of the oblivious majority from the top to the bottom???
Where?..
Oh! that's right.
Here...
If that's ok with you then fine. But for anyone who claims to care about anything besides themselves or their bank accounts, it shouldn't be ok... And it is that simple..
I write these words for profound humane individuals and those willing to reason, not for mass produced plastic G.I. Joe action figures with itchy trigger fingers and their Barbies and Brats.
If the words fall on def ears, Please be a mute.

 

[Apeiron]

Ha.. seams to me that any idea is unrealistic when it's not being done. Most of time the only thing stopping possibility from being plausibility and actuality is the lack of action or imagination.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Holy tree hugger. Good idea, everyone give up money, everyone stop being materialistic, everyone stop being gross sex mongers, everyone stop killing flies in your house, everyone stop leaving food on your plate, everyone live in a cabin with no power, let's not drive cars anymore or use microwaves and let's all just get together and sing campfire songs.

Individual beliefs and values are what characterize us as people with free will. This whole let's all join together is ridiculous. Not only is it unrealistic but probably hugely detrimental.

Do you drive a smart car? You live on an Eco friendly house? You still spend money? Spit your hippie thoughts to me when you do.

 

[Apeiron]

Lol "every one hang themselves in a closet! "lord forbid" we give up a luxury for ourselves to conserve a little for the whole of society" lol! Not to mention it'll save us the trouble of killing each other when we run out of resources.. 7 billion going on 9. Do the math, or not, the logic is undeniable.
I was asked to present an alternative for exploitation and murder for hire and I did.. Would you happen to have any constructive or more realistic suggestions? Feel free.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

Ok real question, what luxuries do you give up for your cause?

 

[Apeiron]

As much as my responsibilities allow. Do you want a complete honest run down of everything I could but do not indulge in or would I just be wasting time elaborating on a relative and relevant answer to an irrelevant question?

 

[Jerika_Rain]

My apologies if I come off too confrontational. When I debate I sometimes get too fired up. I think it is a relevant question. If this is your "solution," I would anticipate that you would be the first to embrace it as a lifestyle.

If you drive around in a SUV, putting a recycling bin out once a week doesn't cut it in my book. I guess the point is that it is my guess that even someone like yourself who has these brilliant ideas, doesn't live them yourself.

Know why? because we are human!! not these completely perfect, efficient, harmonious beings.

If you get rid of money, people will attach value to something else and still rob and steal and blah blah blah.

 

[Virgil]

As I can notice Apeiron, You never earn your living by the sweat and your brow…
If it was the case, you would know what the value of money is.

If you want to live as a homeless, free for you…
Personally, that’s not my goal…
To be honest with you, my parent come from a fucking former communist country where they managed to escaped from (Poland) and for nothing in the world I would have lived the life they had…
That was a time when listening American Jazz was considered as subversive…
I prefer much more the liberty than the equality.

Basically, I don’t know where you’re from, but if you can connect to internet and have free access to a site like this one, I’m sure you come from a rich country and free country…

So if you really want to help people, just humbly work for it, without teaching us your petty bourgeois lessons.
If you want to keep on speaking as a teenager you would better shut your mouth.

 

[Jerika_Rain]

I have to generally agree with Virgil...seriously, not trying to be offensive, it just really comes off like Apeiron lives in lala land and I think it can come off as almost disrespectful. Like this "holier than thou" outlook on life...it's cool to think about stuff and ponder whatever you want to, but to try to pawn that off as a viable "solution" is pretty ridiculous.

I think you rarely consider the REALITIES of life and of people. Everything you speak on is so fantasy based IMO.

I agree that greed is a problem, crime is a problem, deceit is a problem...but you have to be realistic about your solutions. The world isn't full of dreams and pixie dust. Everything is NOT based on "logic." I am sorry, it's not.

 

[Apeiron]

I understand you both. No offense taken and neither was any meant on my part. I guess I am ahead of myself most of the times because all I want is understanding. It's just too bad catastrophic events have to occur for us to grow. I really do appreciate you guys keeping me grounded.
And yea I would love to live a completely autonomously green lifestyle with no carbon footprint but I awakened a little too late with obligations. It's hard but little by little I suppose.
oh well
Co cialo lubi, to dusze zgubi..