Meditation?

[Nanosage]

I try so hard almost every day to do this.. And it seems like I'm making no progress at all... I will literally sit there for like 30 minutes and I just can't concentrate.. I start thinking about everything and then my mind can't shut up.. Is there any way to meditate with your mind still going? I try to focuse on relaxing more and more on each breath but I just can't do it. I mean I will start having some random thoughts, you know? Like just before you fall asleep kinda thoughts. But I know I'm not meditating.. I did diphenhydramine a couple days ago, and THAT is meditating.. I think.. Well what that felt like to me was, when I closed my eyes I would have this random situation occur.. Like me talking to my mom or being at school or something. After awhile I could physically feel my eyes closed.. So I knew I was dreaming or something or just that it wasn't real.. And as I looked around, writing made no sense.. But I could actually SEE it on the back of my eye lids.. And I think that is what meditating is all about pretty much.. I don't know honestly because I try and try but I just can't do it.. Can someone help me more on meditating? I keep trying but I don't feel like I am getting anywhere..

 

[viljo]

easy there.

things will calm down.

sounds like you need a good sleep.

take back control.

I try.

 

[Spencer]

www.astraldynamics.com <--- I used to meditate. I practiced Astral Projection on some very deep levels. Follow that link, join the forum, buy a book called "New Energy Ways" by "Robert Bruce". Honestly I believe there is a great deal of relevence between what I have seen via meditations and lucid dreaming AND the effects of DMT. DMT is what dreams are made of, and you unlock some naturally through this process, or so I believe. He teaches you mobile body awareness, and how to bounce energy through yourself to awaken so called "Chakras". I don't know how much I really buy into it all, but there IS SOMETHING to it. If you like the deep, introverted headspace and don't mind your subconcious inturrupting your REM cycle occasionally, GO FOR IT. It helped me learn so much about myself and peace.

 

[ararat]

I try so hard

there's your problem.
do not lust for results, you will make progress. whatever you practice, you will get good at it, there's no question to this


have you tried meditating with mantras?
one option would be to think "saaaat" while breathing in, and "naaaam" breathing out. ("sat nam" = "true identity"/"true self")
__________
if this is not enough occupation for now, you can also try this:
sit normal, with a straight back and relaxed (as with most meditations). if you have troubles sitting straight, you can sit on a pillow, it helps.

think Sa Ta Na Ma.
make fists, and put your thumbs under your fingers.
with Sa you press your index finger on your thumb
with Ta you press your middle finger on your thumb
with Na, you press your ring finger on your thumb
with Ma, you press your little finger on your thumb

in kundalini yoga, this is a meditation for protection against negativity of other people. you can do this as long as you wish to.

really sing those mantras into your body, sing them into the depths of yourself. (in your mind, not physically singing - for that there are other techniques, of which I'm honestly not very fond because there always are people around me and I'm really a bad singer )
_________
another would be to sit, and hold your hand like in the attachment ten centimeters in front of your chest. concentrate on your third eye, later through half open eyes on your nose-tip.

breathe in through your nose
breathe out through your nose

breathe in through your mouth
(now purse your lips, as if you wanted to whistle)
breathe out through your pursed mouth

breathe in through your nose
breathe out through your pursed mouth

breathe in through your pursed mouth
breathe out through your nose

etc.

do your breathing powerful (in contrast to forceful) and complete. start with 3 minutes of practice, you can increase the time over the times you try this up to 11 or 31 minutes.
_________


my thanks go to Satya Singh for writing such an awesome book on Kundalini yoga, where I got all of those meditations from :bear:

 

[ophiuchus]

you don't KNOW for a fact that you aren't meditating, because you're new to meditation.

the entire process is a meditation. you can't NOT meditate if you've taken the time to sit and meditate. meditation is not just reaching or being in a specific mental state. it's the sincere trying that counts.

you're too worried about results, that you haven't seen that you have already made progress with your meditation! you're frustrating yourself because you expect an end result. truth is, there is no end result. you can just keep going deep and deeper, aka you just get better and better. the more you do it.

"Is there any way to meditate with your mind still going? "

yes and no. you should push the thoughts out of your conscious mind. the mind that actually thinks about the shit that pops into your head. shit will still pop into your head no matter what. meditation is about getting better at quickly letting go of these thoughts once you realize that you are doing it. if you dont realize it, then that just means more practice will help this, it's doesn't mean you aren't meditating.

you have already completed the first step in meditation, which is to realize that your mind talks ALOT. the next step for you is to try to work on not listening to it (yes you will have to not listen many times in one meditation) for a little while

 

[Spencer]

It is really hard to quiet your mind for the first few times you do it. I used to practice color breathing, lights dim, relaxing in my favorite armchair. I've reached deep trance like this.

 

[Nanosage]

think Sa Ta Na Ma.
make fists, and put your thumbs under your fingers.
with Sa you press your index finger on your thumb
with Ta you press your middle finger on your thumb
with Na, you press your ring finger on your thumb
with Ma, you press your little finger on your thumb

I'm confused.. I mean I know people do this kinda thing but is the point of doing all these specific movements just too get your mind on that instead of other things? Is it just a distraction? Or are they like specifically sacred movements that you HAVE to do?

It is really hard to quiet your mind for the first few times you do it. I used to practice color breathing, lights dim, relaxing in my favorite armchair. I've reached deep trance like this.

See but what is getting into the trance? Whats it like in there? I still don't understand.. Obviously because I haven't done it.. But if you get deep enough into it, do you ACTUALLY see things? Like actually see yourself talking to aliens or something? And do you remember it when you snap out of it? I see reports all the time of meditating and it seems really just weird and mind blowing.. I think I actually did it one time.. But I don't know if it was lucid dreaming or meditation.. I was trying to conscientiously fall asleep. To lucid dream. And my vision just went away and I was suddenly at my computer. Nothing looked right, and I know this feeling because this is exactly how it is when you are tripping on diphenhydramine. I could feel my eyes closed and I saw my computer. Couldn't read anything because it all made no sense.. But I tried to make things just appear and it didn't worked, and I ended up opening my eyes and snapping out of it.. And since I was under the impression that it was a lucid dream I took a sleeping pill (Not diphenhydramine.) and just ended up falling asleep... So I mean was I in some deep meditation state? I think I was now that I think about it.. But is that actually what meditating is like? I know it gets way deeper than that apparently.. But that is the only experience I have had with meditation and lucid dreams so I don't know how to tell them apart.. Aren't they pretty much the same thing?

 

[Nanosage]

Also, I need a little help with this too.. I always feel tired and just zoned out.. Like I never really have energy.. Which makes no sense.. I et perfect.. Seriously.. I barely eat fast food or anything and I try hard and hard to eat healthy which actually is starting to taste good.. But I am always tired.. And I get enough sleep too.. But anyways I am really tired all the time and I am scared I am going to fall asleep meditating.. Lol but does it matter if you fall asleep? Thats pretty much what you are doing anyways right?!?!

 

[Spencer]

Alright. First and foremost you have to have a goal. If your goal is to Lucid Dream or Project (Out of body experiences), the best time to reach trance would be just after you wake up and are still relaxed, or as you are going to bed. The thing I was trying to reach was putting my body to sleep without putting my mind to sleep. You lose feeling of your body and everything gets really heavy dependent on the level of trance you reach. I could type all day about this stuff man, but you really just need to study about it better. I'm telling you. If you want to succeed in this it will really help for you to track down a book called "New Energy Ways" by "Robert Bruce". Drop the fifteen bucks. Totally worth it. Throughout regular practice of the things he suggests, you will start to realize when you are in a dream, hell I have even made up a dream world as I sat in the introverted blackness of the infinite space in my mind. It is really about finding something that works for you.

 

[IJesusChrist]

DMT is what dreams are made of, and you unlock some naturally through this process, or so I believe.

Via the "facts" this isn't true... DMT doesn't have much to do with dreaming, very, very little if anything.

 

[HeartCore]

DMT is what dreams are made of, and you unlock some naturally through this process, or so I believe.

Via the "facts" this isn't true... DMT doesn't have much to do with dreaming, very, very little if anything.

Source to the 'facts' please

 

[Brugmansia]

I do get heavy REM movement prior to a knock off and DMT scenes are very fleeting just as in a dream. Do it intense and you are reminiscing it as an ordinary dream afterwards.

 

[ararat]

think Sa Ta Na Ma.
make fists, and put your thumbs under your fingers.
with Sa you press your index finger on your thumb
with Ta you press your middle finger on your thumb
with Na, you press your ring finger on your thumb
with Ma, you press your little finger on your thumb

I'm confused.. I mean I know people do this kinda thing but is the point of doing all these specific movements just too get your mind on that instead of other things? Is it just a distraction? Or are they like specifically sacred movements that you HAVE to do?

you don't have to do them to meditate, it is just a way you can choose, some like it, some don't.

I don't know wether to see it as 'distraction' or something 'sacred', I'd probably settle around in the middle. it's up to you to decide on how to see it, experiment with it. for me, these practices are meant to bridle the ox in the head. it's about attaining a one-pointedness of mind, and mantras prove to be a good tool to get there.
in the book I got this from it says that many things work with meridians, so maybe here this applies as well.
Sa Ta Na Ma means as much as Birth, Life, Death, Rebirth.

 

[Spencer]

DMT is what dreams are made of, and you unlock some naturally through this process, or so I believe.

Via the "facts" this isn't true... DMT doesn't have much to do with dreaming, very, very little if anything.

Source to the 'facts' please

Well, I'm not sure about that on a chemical balance or not... but what I have seen through deep AP, Lucid Dreaming and trance all shared quite a few of the same sensations as DMT.

Link me to something that proves DMT doesn't cause dreams, btw. I would like to read more about it as I have always been curious how far this rabbit hole goes.

 

[ophiuchus]

think Sa Ta Na Ma.
make fists, and put your thumbs under your fingers.
with Sa you press your index finger on your thumb
with Ta you press your middle finger on your thumb
with Na, you press your ring finger on your thumb
with Ma, you press your little finger on your thumb

I'm confused.. I mean I know people do this kinda thing but is the point of doing all these specific movements just too get your mind on that instead of other things? Is it just a distraction? Or are they like specifically sacred movements that you HAVE to do?

the trance is the rhythm.

more specifically, repeating the rhythm consciously is what induces the trance. yet, it is the rhythm of the mantra itself that is important, not the specific mantra. however that is not to say that it does not matter how the rhythm is performed. it must be performed with 100% attention. in this sense, the rhythm is sacred.

I still don't understand.. Obviously because I haven't done it.. But if you get deep enough into it, do you ACTUALLY see things? Like actually see yourself talking to aliens or something? And do you remember it when you snap out of it? I see reports all the time of meditating and it seems really just weird and mind blowing.. I think I actually did it one time.. But I don't know if it was lucid dreaming or meditation.. I was trying to conscientiously fall asleep. To lucid dream. And my vision just went away and I was suddenly at my computer. Nothing looked right, and I know this feeling because this is exactly how it is when you are tripping on diphenhydramine. I could feel my eyes closed and I saw my computer. Couldn't read anything because it all made no sense.. But I tried to make things just appear and it didn't worked, and I ended up opening my eyes and snapping out of it.. And since I was under the impression that it was a lucid dream I took a sleeping pill (Not diphenhydramine.) and just ended up falling asleep... So I mean was I in some deep meditation state? I think I was now that I think about it.. But is that actually what meditating is like? I know it gets way deeper than that apparently.. But that is the only experience I have had with meditation and lucid dreams so I don't know how to tell them apart.. Aren't they pretty much the same thing?

no, you don't see yourself talking to aliens. tripping is not lucid dreaming is not meditation, even though they are very similar. you can still come to similar insights, but the different experiences do have their respective arbitrary boundaries that separate each other. it should be easier to remember your experiences while meditating, it's not like sleeping, well, not entirely. during a lucid dream(or any dream), their is always an interval of time where you dont realize that you've fallen asleep, and then you sort of "come to" inside the dream. with trances and meditation, the transition is a bit more noticeable, and easier to accidentally snap out of, from my experience

Also, I need a little help with this too.. I always feel tired and just zoned out.. Like I never really have energy.. Which makes no sense.. I et perfect.. Seriously.. I barely eat fast food or anything and I try hard and hard to eat healthy which actually is starting to taste good.. But I am always tired.. And I get enough sleep too..

what is your normal diet for one day? do you eat at regular times of day each day? what's your height and weight? give me an example and ill try to help figure it out. ie: breakfast- 9:30 granola and yogurt. lunch- 1:30 a spinach wrap with turkey sour cream carrots spicy mustard. snack- 5:30 dinner- 8:30 chicken with wild rice and asparagus (that was one of mine last week ) the actual amount of food you eat too would be helpful

another thing. how many hours of sleep do you get in one night? just because you get at least 8 doesn't mean you are getting proper rest. if you sleep too long, then you will feel like a slug all day. it is definitely possible to over sleep, and i would argue that this is just as bad as undersleeping.

 

[Spencer]

no, you don't see yourself talking to aliens. tripping is not lucid dreaming is not meditation, even though they are very similar. you can still come to similar insights, but the different experiences do have their respective arbitrary boundaries that separate each other. it should be easier to remember your experiences while meditating, it's not like sleeping, well, not entirely. during a lucid dream(or any dream), their is always an interval of time where you dont realize that you've fallen asleep, and then you sort of "come to" inside the dream. with trances and meditation, the transition is a bit more noticeable, and easier to accidentally snap out of, from my experience

You know your shit. I've been there too. I would have done more in helping this guy out, but typing about stuff I have been out of for a few years sort of bores me. I do have a question for you though.

What was your process? Mine started with relaxation and color breathing. After that, I practiced Mobile Body Awareness (Yeah, its real) bouncing energy around my body until my "ethereal body" was strong enough to exit into the astral plane. I've seen myself asleep, been on my roof, even such mental complexities as walking through walls and looking at myself in a mirror. What I saw was my brain thought of my being. Strange shit.

 

[IJesusChrist]

For allusion & spencer (and everyone else):

Scientific study related to DMT & dreaming:

http://www.tripzine.com/pit/DMT_TA_anxiolytic.pdf

Read the entire report. It specifically says that the amounts found endogenously during sleep is not enough to be noticeable. There may be slight emotional contexts related to the endogenous compound during sleep, but very little can be attributed to the actual dream itself.

Needless to say, this does not mean there are NOT synergistic relationships with DMT during sleep accompanied by other molecules... It just means sleep is not completely dependant on DMT (in any sense!)

 

[Spencer]

For allusion & spencer (and everyone else):

Scientific study related to DMT & dreaming:

http://www.tripzine.com/pit/DMT_TA_anxiolytic.pdf

Read the entire report. It specifically says that the amounts found endogenously during sleep is not enough to be noticeable. There may be slight emotional contexts related to the endogenous compound during sleep, but very little can be attributed to the actual dream itself.

Needless to say, this does not mean there are NOT synergistic relationships with DMT during sleep accompanied by other molecules... It just means sleep is not completely dependant on DMT (in any sense!)

Alright, I'll accept a study on it. I can buy that.

But answer me this! What chemical(s) cause us to dream? See the images we do in our thoughts. Asleep or not. Daydreaming and reading books are in this as well.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Thats what I want to know too.

Nobody knows

It may infact be that being awake inhibits these images.

The hypothesis that when we sleep, a new communicator comes into importance may be wrong. While you sleep, we may lose an inhibitory chemical that allows images to fully bloom from ideas and memories.

 

[ophiuchus]

What was your process? Mine started with relaxation and color breathing. After that, I practiced Mobile Body Awareness (Yeah, its real) bouncing energy around my body until my "ethereal body" was strong enough to exit into the astral plane. I've seen myself asleep, been on my roof, even such mental complexities as walking through walls and looking at myself in a mirror. What I saw was my brain thought of my being. Strange shit.

i've done color breathing before, but never heard of mobile body awareness. really any grounding point works for me. the one i tend to use first is breath. once i am paying attention to my breathing rhythm, then i tend to notice visuals soon after, and then i just sort of fall into a trance. it seems that i dont have much control over how deep i can go at any given point in time, however more frequency of practice makes me go slightly deeper and deeper every time.