MAOI and Kratom

[tryptonaut]

I plan to do an ayahuasca trip next week and I'd like to take a little Kratom extract before to get in a good mood and comfortable feeling.

Is it maybe dangerous? Does anybody know?

 

[lucasdr]

Ayahuasca can be pretty intense. Why don't you try it first without and maybe next time with a little Kratom?

 

[tryptonaut]

Ayahuasca can be pretty intense

That's exactly why I'd like a little Kratom with it. Kratom is not psychedelic but it comforts your mind and makes you feel well, like a mild opiate. I think it can push the trip in a positive direction.
It's like drinking a glass of red wine or some cocoa before a mushroom trip.
However I think cocoa isn't that strong and I obviously can't drink wine before drinking ayahuasca... that's why I thought Kratom might be a good choice (as long as it's not adverse to MAOIs)

 

[lucasdr]

as long as it's not adverse to MAOIs

That's the problem, it is adverse to MAO-inhibitors.
Does anybody know what happens when you take stuff that is adverse to MAOI's? I mean, I always hear it don't use this with MAOI's, but what happens when you do?

 

[Stonish]

Well, Erowid mentiones something about raised bloodpressure, higher heartbeat and the worst headache of your life.. Probably among other nasty side effects? Pretty much not a good time..

But never happend to me, maybe there's someone who experienced this particular headache? :iconhead:

 

[tryptonaut]

That's the problem, it is adverse to MAO-inhibitors.

Are you sure? Do you have any reliable sources on that?

Does anybody know what happens when you take stuff that is adverse to MAOI's? I mean, I always hear it don't use this with MAOI's, but what happens when you do?

Tyramine from foods like aged cheese will raise your blood pressure when the MAO is inhibited. If you take drugs like SSRIs or amphetamines you might even die from a serotonine shock in your brain (the SSRI or amphetamines block the re-uptake of serotonin, the MAOI prevents it from being broken down...)

 

[lucasdr]

Are you sure? Do you have any reliable sources on that?

A friend of mine used it with Yohimbe. It caused a mild headache the next morning. He didn't use much of the Yohimbe though...
I would just use it without the kratom. It can fuck up the trip pretty badly. Maybe try that when there's a research of Kratom in combination with MAOI's

 

[speedball]

I Would be very careful. MAOIs can cause serious interactions. Unless it was yage, I would never mix an MAOI with anything, but then again, I like to err well on the side of caution

 

[Viaticus]

I Would be very careful. MAOIs can cause serious interactions. Unless it was yage, I would never mix an MAOI with anything, but then again, I like to err well on the side of caution

MAOIs and Tryptamines are a fairly "safe" combination because the effect is pretty much predictable (the trypatime in question will just act more "potently" due to the expanded half-life). The MAOI + (N,N/5-MeO)-DMT is of course the classic combination, but Psilocybin/Psilocin work also nicely.

But when starting to mix MAOIs with other kind of subtances than tryptamines, one should be extremly careful. And as always when using MAOIs one should be aware of the substances to avoid for example with food and medication (tyramine- and serotonine-shocks are not things to fool around with).

 

[iaMg0r0]

"There appears to be no information regarding Kratom use and interactions with MAOI’s and SSRI’s, but if you take MAOI’s, do not use Kratom. People taking SSRI’s are advised to use caution when taking Kratom. Most people taking SSRI’s report no problems with Kratom." says in here http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/kratom-dangers.html I'd be careful especially with MAOIs... though that text says "no kratom if using MAOIs..i think that's just one of those "over-protective" things but still :>

 

[iaMg0r0]

I Would be very careful. MAOIs can cause serious interactions. Unless it was yage, I would never mix an MAOI with anything, but then again, I like to err well on the side of caution

MAOIs and Tryptamines are a fairly "safe" combination because the effect is pretty much predictable (the trypatime in question will just act more "potently" due to the expanded half-life). The MAOI + (N,N/5-MeO)-DMT is of course the classic combination, but Psilocybin/Psilocin work also nicely.

But when starting to mix MAOIs with other kind of subtances than tryptamines, one should be extremly careful. And as always when using MAOIs one should be aware of the substances to avoid for example with food and medication (tyramine- and serotonine-shocks are not things to fool around with).

Well kratom doesn't fall in the tryptamine-category.. does it? But it's nice to boost drugs with MAOIs

 

[yppaxe]

Hi there everybody...it´s very important to us to know how de MAO-inhibitors work. MAOi and Tryptamines are NOT A TOTTALY SAFE COMBINATION! The mono amino oxidase inhibition raises the concentracion of neurotransmissors in the sinaptic "fend"(the space between one neuron and another in the neuronial transmission). All the inhibitors of MAO can inhibit a lot of metabolic routes, specially in the liver those related with the microssomatic metabolism, needed to the metabolization of exogenous substances and drugs. Ayahuasca is an non-specific MAO inhibitor (it inhibits A and B), that´s why it´s not compatible with a lot of other drugs and some food. Like we understand of this, the not wanted effects of MAOi are related to the inhibition of the liver microssomatic metabolic compounds, wich results in the incompatibility whit other medicines/drugs or food rich in tyramine, like some kind of cheese, liver of chicken or some kind of alcoholic drinks. The tyramine passes in the liver without being inactivated causing the liberation of cathecolamines in big numbers, it will give hipertension crisis wich can broke the vascular tubes and subsequent death. In the central nervous system the MAO-i cause high stimulation whit insomnia, agitacion, allucinations and mental confusion. The MAOi are mainly general enzime inhibitors, so they can give a bigger potency in drugs that are depressor to the central nervous system, like barbiturics, alcohol, opiates and of course KRATOM, that´s why ayahuasca will not be stronger whit kratom, but the action of kratom can be stronger. Maybe your idea is good, it can give a good feeling, but the mental trip with ayahuasca is so strong that you can forget the good mood of kratom in a moment to the other. If you don´t use elephant doses it can´t be danger and you will surely have a nice experience...Pharmaceutical regards
Yppaxe :!:

Sorry for the :? english

 

[Viaticus]

Well kratom doesn't fall in the tryptamine-category.. does it?

No, it doesn't, and nobody claimed it did. That particular part of the conversation which you quoted dealt with mixing MAOI's with anything in general.
:wink: