logics as a matter of inclusion or exclusion

[BrainEater]

i don't know whether it really can be generalized like that... but i noticed that mathematically it's as if some kind of logics are higher or lower than others in the sense that some can include some other logics, while others can't...
this could be taken or applied to other levels, also... for example it's often said, that god is within...
dreams are also within (at some level )... i find this as a psychonaut very interesting to think about...
because i suppose i define myself thru logics, at least to some extent, for sure...


well i have studied informatics for a short while and it was as if they tried to solve the logics of languages or so...
because in informatics it's about speaking to machines... but well yeah it's different thing i guess, because it's machine
languages...
i dunno lol... some people are more logical and some people less...whatever that may mean... but then again logics is a matter of definition.... and definitions, just like logics, are a matter of perspective, in a certain way... what for one is logic and/or definitive, for the other maybe is not???

interestingly as psychonauts we explore the information processing units of our minds just like the information itself... the interesting fact that sadly can be abused is that we are more biological computers and hence a more advanced kind of hardware than "normal computers" are...
but awareness can help... if you are aware of yourself a lot... then chances are that it's less likely that others can abuse your mind or the information in your mind... 8)

if you don't watch yourself, maybe someone else has to do that...something like that lol...
i know it probably sounds a bit propagandistic or paranoid... but i thought a little bit about it and came to the conclusion
that it's true... mind you i am not saying that big brother is good or the idea of being obsessed with terrorism or the potential for it (=being fear controlled = being a puppet)... i just mean that in a common sense way... like how children can fuck shit up, because they don't know any better or so... think before talking, reflecting/observing oneself and stuff like that seem to be some healthy ideas to counter stupid shit like that... if you ask me thinking is simultaneously over- and underrated... lol :yawinkle:

maybe you are aware also of how the psychology of "packages" or so seems to have gained importance in
marketing, business and capitalism or even politics and that kind of shit in general...
it's interesting how they try to exploit people like that, some more and some less nice... :x :angry: :\

hmm or perception.. we perceive with the senses, but also with the mind and the mind uses the senses...
filters are used by the mind, to only perceive what is necessary to perceive or so...
selective perception is probably something very normal... what is selected or not, that is surely written on another page..

as far as i can see, the more we explore and become aware of the sub- and unconscious aspects of our beings, the more
we may become aware, that programs are an expression of logics and the concept of programs seems to get more and more relevant on many levels... :idea:
sometimes maybe you also get stuck in thought loops or so... i think we all do sometimes... and essentially,
i guess it can be good or bad...
and just a short mention of the movie "the matrix" also, because they have dealt with ideas related to programs already...



one more thing: watch out when others try to force you into their logic or so.... know what i mean??? lol :!: :finger:
after all we somehow live in an age of information, computers and hence also logics...


peace

 

[Mescaline]

i don't know whether it really can be generalized like that... but i noticed that mathematically it's as if some kind of logics are higher or lower than others in the sense that some can include some other logics, while others can't...
this could be taken or applied to other levels, also... for example it's often said, that god is within...
dreams are also within (at some level )... i find this as a psychonaut very interesting to think about...
because i suppose i define myself thru logics, at least to some extent, for sure...

Hmm, I cant quite follow .. What do you mean by some kind of logic that include others.. Can you give an example? How does logic relate to experiences that are within, and without? And how do you define yourself through logic?

well i have studied informatics for a short while and it was as if they tried to solve the logics of languages or so...
because in informatics it's about speaking to machines... but well yeah it's different thing i guess, because it's machine
languages...
i dunno lol... some people are more logical and some people less...whatever that may mean... but then again logics is a matter of definition.... and definitions, just like logics, are a matter of perspective, in a certain way... what for one is logic and/or definitive, for the other maybe is not???

interestingly as psychonauts we explore the information processing units of our minds just like the information itself... the interesting fact that sadly can be abused is that we are more biological computers and hence a more advanced kind of hardware than "normal computers" are...
but awareness can help... if you are aware of yourself a lot... then chances are that it's less likely that others can abuse your mind or the information in your mind... 8)

maybe you are aware also of how the psychology of "packages" or so seems to have gained importance in
marketing, business and capitalism or even politics and that kind of shit in general...
it's interesting how they try to exploit people like that, some more and some less nice... :x :angry: :\

hmm or perception.. we perceive with the senses, but also with the mind and the mind uses the senses...
filters are used by the mind, to only perceive what is necessary to perceive or so...
selective perception is probably something very normal... what is selected or not, that is surely written on another page..

The logics of language.. ye... That's what that course of philosophy of language was about. I remember the professor told us that the logical equations that were mentioned could in practice be used to create machines/robots that could automatically translate texts to different language (like google translate I guess). So, because liek you said the brain is a biological computer of sorts, one does only have to discover the right equations that describes the logic of language correctly, and then insert it into a computer to create a computer that can "talk", as in translate stuff, and a more advanced kind that could even respond to certain pieces of text in a certain manner.. Kind of making it (seem to) truly understand the input.. Actually this makes you wonder if such a computer that could answer a question in a normal manner did acutally really understand the question, or is just running a routine script which is activated by a certain kind of input... It almost seems obvious that a computer would not understand the question, and thus would only be running a script as a response to specific input.. Like "if A, then B", but more complex in nature. BUT, if this is so, then in what way is the way we humans use language any different from the way the computer uses language..? If we can describe the way we use language with the exact same equations as we can describe a computer using language.. then do we actually understand what someone is saying when asked a question?? Or are we also just running a very complex script in response to certain input? Somehow the lines become very blurred between computer and man, and maybe the only solution is to either say neither man nor computer does really understand language, or both do actually understand language...

Also what you say about our biological computers being possibly abused.. That is frightening in a way.. Imagine if our brains really are a very complex computer, then science has just to catch up with the "technology" of our brains, and we will be able to reprogram our brains by creating new, or adjusting old logical "equations", or so called rules by which the brain works. This can be both good and bad of course. Then again this is already happening in a sense, through education amongst others. Education actually is the reprogramming of the brain, adding new rules to our thinking, adjusting old ones, which is good in case of gaining knowledge of course.. Also especially when still young we are "programmed" to pay attention to certain kinds of information and not other. Filtering out all unneccesary things so it is easier to work with the important stuff, which is all good in my opinon as long as you are aware that this is happening, in other words as long as you are aware that there is more than the stuff that remains after everything else has been filtered.. But also media, and commercials are a kind of attempt to reprogramme our brains to buy their product or to believe in a kind of supposed happiness that society would provide you with if you take part in it. And like you say, the way to avoid abuse of this last kind of reprogramming would be to just be aware of it. Most aren't aware of it though..

if you don't watch yourself, maybe someone else has to do that...something like that lol...
i know it probably sounds a bit propagandistic or paranoid... but i thought a little bit about it and came to the conclusion
that it's true... mind you i am not saying that big brother is good or the idea of being obsessed with terrorism or the potential for it (=being fear controlled = being a puppet)... i just mean that in a common sense way... like how children can fuck shit up, because they don't know any better or so... think before talking, reflecting/observing oneself and stuff like that seem to be some healthy ideas to counter stupid shit like that... if you ask me thinking is simultaneously over- and underrated... lol :yawinkle:

Hmm, I think the only reason why someone would have to watch us is if we don;t really think for ourselves. In a way life in society has become so easy, especially in the early years of growing up (not talkig about the baby years where you obviously cannot take care of yourself.. but rigth after that), that people don't really learn about how to think for themselves. Actually it seems to me that what people are taught, while growing up, is to become part of the system. Don't think about why you're becoming part of the system, or if the system is any good, if there migth be any substantial improvements to be made to the system... No, just take part in it, because if you will you will most likely become quite old, and will most likely have experienced a lot of so called happiness (wife/husband, with kids a pool, a car (or two) and a big house etc).. And that, kids is what a "succesful life" is. That's what, in my opinion, education fundamentally is nowadays. Of course there is another kind of education as well, like learning maths, and being able to write and stuff like that, a kind of education about facts and certain skills. But underneath all that there is this fundamental education that teaches us to not think outside the box and go with the flow, because that is what "happiness" supposedly is. And if you want to be happy, you'd better not go around and try figuring out what happiness might be for you, cause that would just be wasting time! Better be ignorant and let other people tell you what happiness is...
So, I guess if it's already to late and one's brains have become so rusty that it has become impossible to learn to think for yourself, then I guess you really do need someone to watch out for you... But actually, all people are capable of thinking for themselves.. they jsut have to learn if they don't know already. Nobody really needs someone to watch out for them. Watching out for eachother on the other hand does make life easier.. Two pair of eyes do see more than one after all, but only if both people actually use them, haha.. As soon as the impression arises that you don't have to watch out yourself anymore because soemone else will do it for you... Then we get into a situation as where we are in today.

 

[Apeiron]

Good one. Information, like the universe and consciousness, is fractal. The more you open up to, the more you'll have the opportunity to open up to. It's a curse in this world. A gift in the next. Read that however you like :wink: