Quoi de neuf ?

Bienvenue sur Psychonaut.fr !

En vous enregistrant, vous pourrez discuter de psychotropes, écrire vos meilleurs trip-reports et mieux connaitre la communauté

Je m'inscris!

Ingesting Cacti that contain Mescaline

HappyMind

Sale drogué·e
Inscrit
16 Mai 2007
Messages
964
Since the general consensus is that hallucinogenic cacti taste bad, it was felt that a lengthy discussion of the different ways to prepare and eat them would be of help.

The peyote cactus (Lophophora williamsii) and members of the Trichocereus genus (like san pedro) are often consumed for the mescaline they contain. The effects of ingesting both types of cacti are similar, yet there are differences.

Most of the references on this page are to the san pedro cactus (botanical name Trichocereus pachanoi). However, other species of Trichocereus (and some other types of cacti) may be consumed using the methods discussed.

I've tried consuming Trichocereus pachanoi (san pedro) almost every way imaginable. Through my trial and error, I feel that I've arrived at the best way for me to consume this plant for the best entheogenic results. I'll briefly review some of the different ways I've tried.

Eating like a cucumber: This method consists of peeling the cactus and eating it (chewing every bite). This seemed somewhat effective except it took so long for me to eat it (6 or more hours) that the impact of the effect was diminished, and I couldn't seem to eat enough.

Boiling down to a residue: This method consists of slicing the cactus in thin slices, and boiling for an hour, collecting the liquid, adding more water, boiling, etc, several times then taking the 'cactus juice' and boiling it down to a residue. This residue is then scraped into capsules and swallowed. This method seemed to reduce the effect by a factor of 4 or more.

Desiccating: This method consists of slicing the cactus and thoroughly drying it, then grinding it to a powder. This method was also very disappointing, seeming to take very long to come on.

Extraction: This method consists of desiccating and grinding the cactus to powder, extracting with water, then extracting with benzene washing, and recrystallizing with benzene. 1 g of crystals looking like mescaline and requiring lots of cactus, had no noticeable effect.

Boiling: This method consists of slicing in thin slices and boiling, collecting the cactus juice, adding fresh water, and repeating. The cactus juice is drunk. This method seems to reduce the effect somewhat.

Grinding and filtering: This method consists of grinding the cactus, and straining, grinding the solids more with fresh water, straining, and repeating several times until there are few solids. One problem is that grinding tends to froth the stuff up, but with time and gravity it condenses back to a liquid. This method seems to work well, with little reduction in potency.

Finally my preferred method described in some detail.

1 cutting: If using a live plant, cut off the portion of the cactus that you wish to consume, leaving a viable portion to grow. This is important, especially if one later discovers this individual cactus has special properties. It is best to take a middle section (if the cactus is tall enough) leaving both the apical and rooted section to grow.

If using a san pedro cutting, a piece 6 inches to 12 inches long is recommended. When you have an idea of what a certain amount does, you can adjust the dose size to suit your particular next time you try.

2 washing: The cutting is washed in water, running a finger up and down the grooves.

3 de-spining: The spines are cut out removing as little of the valuable green tissue as possible.

4 de-skinning: Cuts are made down the grooves. The skin is pulled up attempting to keep a piece going as long as possible. It helps to pull as much as possible from the groove outward.

5 sectioning: cuts are made from the grooves to the core and the sections are pulled away from the core. Pieces of core remaining on the sections are cut off. The core is discarded.

6 freezing: The sections are placed in a freezer for several hours until thoroughly frozen.

7 grinding: The frozen sections are chopped up and ground, and the pulp filtered to collect the liquid. The pulp is ground more and filtered, adding only a little water on the second and third grindings.

8 drinking: The collected liquids are drunk as quickly as possible without gaging or regurgitating.

9 eating: The remaining solids are consumed.

Notes: I perfected the final method only during my most recent session, and the resulting trip was very intense (similar, at least visually, to a strong 500ug dose of LSD).

I was quite convinced that a spirit inhabited that cactus, and that it came through more clearly than other sessions because I had treated it properly. Desiccation or excessive boiling seem to kill part of its spirit. Freezing seems to be a good way to 'put it to rest'.

On a more scientific level, I'm not sure why this cactus is so sensitive to the way it is consumed. Perhaps it is because it contains a special synergistic mixture of alkaloids and some are destroyed more easily than others. Also freezing would break down the cell walls while not degrading the compounds as boiling might.

gordon_k gives us his favorite methods.

Before you prepare any san pedro for ingestion: a word of warning. It tastes bad. It tastes gross. It is ten times worse than the worst thing you have ever tasted. It looks, tastes, feels, and smells absolutely gross. It is entirely possible to drink it, but very unpleasant. You have been warned.

Method #1:

Traditional preparation of san pedro is as follows: We are assuming your cactus is about 3" in diameter. Remove spines. Finely chop up about 6-12 inches or 1-2 pounds fresh (I've used a blender--but don't totally liquefy it for this method), depending on how deep you wish to journey.....Boil in several quarts of water for three hours. Strain it, save the water, and boil it again in a few more quarts of water for another three hours...strain again.

Both times, you may need to add water in order to keep it simmering for three hours. The pulp may now be thrown out. Combine the two extracts and boil down to a cup or two.

This will take at least another hour. (I have some literature that says you can just eat it, but I think that it is easier to drink a cup of foul tasting liquid than to eat a foot long cactus). Lately I have read that boiling with 25% lemon juice for only 2 hours will properly extract the mescaline.

That makes sense, based on all my reading. Much quicker too! My suggestion is chop fine, boil for 2-3 hours with 25% lemon juice (fresh is probably better at extracting the alkaloids), strain, and then gently simmer down to a consumable quantity (perhaps 2 cups).

The percentage of mescaline is supposed to be approximately that of peyote, so that can be your guide when deciding how much to prepare. Having never taken peyote, I don't really have much basis for comparison.

But based on my reading combined with my experience, peyote would seem to be much more potent. I know that the first time, I took four inches and it didn't do that much....enough that I noticed it, but not much more.

Then the next time I prepared 12 inches, and, to use the vernacular of my youth, tripped my freaking brains out. It was the first time I'd ever experienced Mescaline and it was beautiful, wonderful, spiritual, and indescribably nice.

If you are prepared for a strong psychedelic experience I would suggest 12 inches (of about 3" cactus). It is best taken in two doses, 45 minutes apart, to minimize the shock to the system. My literature suggests that it isn't nearly as physically nauseating as peyote. I have not found it to be very bad.

I warn you that it tastes TERRIBLE!, and you probably will want to cook it down to a very small amount of liquid(a cup or two total), because of this. However, one author had this to say: "In my own experience extensive boiling of san pedro produces a trip that is mellower, more sedative, and with fewer visuals, as well as reducing the potency in general".

After trying his method, I have also found this to be true, so I suggest the method below. It works beautifully! Even better than method #1! Unfortunately, it requires ingestion of a MUCH larger volume of snarly tasting liquefied cactus. It's worth it, but definitely harder to do.

Method #2:

Remove spines. Chop, then blend, juice or otherwise liquefy. For each foot of cactus: Add 1 cup water and the juice of two lemons to the bowl of liquid. This extract can be frozen for later use, although it may be illegal in this form. (san pedro is legal to possess, but illegal to consume, in the USA).

The liquid extract can be chilled to ice-cold temperatures before ingestion, and prepared with lemon juice, both of which make it more palatable. I don't think it makes a big difference myself.

Consume 6-8 oz. portions 15-30 minutes apart until you've fully consumed your chosen dose (cactus length). Remember, san pedro is intensely bitter, so don't savor it, just chug. This method works great, but I have found that stomach capacity will limit how far you can travel.

I think future journeys will be with the boiled or dried/powdered cactus. This method works great, but I've usually gotten fairly mild but quite satisfactory results. Perfect for the first couple of san pedro voyages.

Cooking with san pedro can easily be adopted from other techniques for Mexican food. Some recipes that can help make eating Trichocereus more palatable are as follows:

Prickly Sticks: Peel and slice cactus, into pieces that are 6 inches long. Dip in Lime juice and sprinkle with salt and ground cilantro. Eat like a carrot stick.

Pedro Hash: Chop and dice cactus section into small 1/4 inch cubes. Soak 1/4 pound of cubes in 2 tablespoons of good cider vinegar. Mix in parsley and salt, leave in refrigerator for 2 hours.

Quick Fried: Remove spines and cut inch thick, star shaped slices. Remove and discard the woody center. Fry the cactus slices in olive oil, over medium heat. Cook till the edge just start to brown.

Fried Delight: Chop and dice cactus section into 1/4 inch cubes. Mix 2 cups of cubes, 1/4 cup of finely diced onions, half a clove of garlic, and salt. Brown over medium heat for 10 minutes, cover and simmer on low for 15 minutes more.

The key thing to remember is, when eating, remove and discard the waxy, outer skin. It is widely believed that this part of the plant is one of the main sources of nausea producing constituents, and should not be consumed. Be careful not to discard any green or white tissue.

Generally adding vinegar or a strongly acidic juice like Lemon, or Lime, will help to neutralize the inherent bitterness of san pedro. From what I understand, the addition of acidic liquids probably converts some of the various free-base alkaloids into citrates or acetates.

I have also heard that putting the intended sacrificial victim in a dark place for at least a month prior to harvest can help improve the texture of the cactus flesh, making it somewhat less gritty and crunchy. This can also help increase alkaloid levels through stress.

Note: Extensive boiling of any psychoactive cactus during preparation will affect the resultant effects. It is said that excessive boiling reduces the potency in general, and gives a mellower, more sedative trip, with fewer visuals. Probably due to the destruction or modification of some of the constituent alkaloids.

Trichocereus pachanoi (san pedro) is legal just about everywhere. But if you mention anything about drugs or mescaline or anything along those lines, it becomes illegal. So be careful what you say when purchasing or growing any cacti that contain mescaline. You can find such things as san pedro seeds and cuttings and rooted cacti available from suppliers that ship from the USA to most countries.

If you would like to grow growing cacti that contain mescaline see this. For an illustrated example of one method extracting a concentrated preparation of san pedro for ingestion see this.

The peyote cactus (Lophophora williamsii) is illegal in the USA (except to members of some native churches). In Canada and other parts of the world Lophophora williamsii (peyote) is not illegal unless it is being used to produce mescaline.

Books

Peyote And Other Psychoactive Cacti

Describes growing peyote and other psychoactive cacti. Looks at growing, cloning, grafting, and extracting maximum output of mescaline and other alkaloids. Includes Peyote, San Pedro, Donana and other cacti.

Peyote has been used ceremonially by the native peoples of the Americas as a spiritual medicine for close to 3,000 years. Peyote and Other Psychoactive Cacti is a concise and readable guide to the art of cultivating Peyote, San Pedro, and other entheogenic cacti.

Peyote: The Divine Cactus

The most complete authority on the peyote cactus, Lophophora williamsii. Includes every aspects of peyote. History, religious uses, ethnobotany, phytochemistry and pharmacology. For anyone interested in learning all aspects of this mystifying plant.

If you are looking for complete information on the peyote cactus, this is the book for you to buy. It is professional, well written, and informative.


Copyright © Klaus Trenary

Source: http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mes05.htm
 

pinch_sins

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
4 Mai 2008
Messages
24
Wow, very nice compilation, thanks :)
 

Soulcatcher

Elfe Mécanique
Inscrit
2 Jan 2007
Messages
434
In trying these different methods, did you get the cacti from the same source (or even better, same cactus)? Because some can be more potent than others, so you would have to try all of the methods a couple of times to be able to tell something about the method of preparation.
 

HappyMind

Sale drogué·e
Inscrit
16 Mai 2007
Messages
964
I ripped the above from the internet.
I didn't tried myself... YET. :wink:
 

JustinNed

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
12 Oct 2007
Messages
1 954
That's a lot of cactus Happy! We'll all have to try out different ones and post our best variations. Thanks for posting that list too, some of those sound quite interesting indeed!
 

skrudge

Alpiniste Kundalini
Inscrit
10 Déc 2005
Messages
694
thanks for posting this!
Did someone already try the first method? (freezing, etc)
I never came upon a method which included freezing, so I'd really want to know if it works that well :)And this is all for the trichocereus species I presume?
I'd have to get myself a piece one of these days, cause I'm still nurturing my 75 babies here :D
 

JustinNed

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
12 Oct 2007
Messages
1 954
peyote, san pedro, peruvian, all different cacti all containing mescaline, so yes, the type of cactus doesn't matter.

Meant to add this in other post but...
"Fried Delight: Chop and dice cactus section into 1/4 inch cubes. Mix 2 cups of cubes, 1/4 cup of finely diced onions, half a clove of garlic, and salt. Brown over medium heat for 10 minutes, cover and simmer on low for 15 minutes more. "

Someone should try that out and see how it tastes. :D I haven't heard about frying up cactus yet, sounds... interesting :D
 

pinch_sins

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
4 Mai 2008
Messages
24
I just had this conversation with a cacti veteran, and this is his preferred method for san pedro:

you take a knife for scaling fish, cut out the spines ( just a quick cut under where the spines are, not the whole skin )
core it
and pop it in the blender
add a bunch of sugar
and some concentrated juice
thats it.

He reckoned he'd tried different ways but this was the best for him, and one of the easiest. Hope its useful!
 

user_1919

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
21 Fev 2007
Messages
3 008
He reckoned he'd tried different ways but this was the best for him, and one of the easiest. Hope its useful!

It is proabably the best way, but I couldn't imagine drinking down that. I have experience preparing San Pedro, and after blending that cactus with a little bit of water, it turns to like snot.

PEACE & LOVE
 

tryptonaut

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
20 Nov 2004
Messages
3 440
It is proabably the best way, but I couldn't imagine drinking down that. I have experience preparing San Pedro, and after blending that cactus with a little bit of water, it turns to like snot.

Not to mention that this snot tastes almost exactly like fresh puke...
I know other people disagree, but for me it's just that taste...
 

Goran.Hrsak

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
30 Mar 2006
Messages
2 454
Extraction: This method consists of desiccating and grinding the cactus to powder, extracting with water, then extracting with benzene washing, and recrystallizing with benzene. 1 g of crystals looking like mescaline and requiring lots of cactus, had no noticeable effect.

THIS ABOVE FROM FIRST TOPIC IS LIE, UNTRUE, BULL....!
Crystals have the best and fullest effects!, but you can't say that you were doing Peyote-Pedro ceremony intake.

Bout freezing cacti, this could work if you have ice cream machine! Cells in cacti will brake only if you froze cacti really fast! Other way cacti cells will stretch just like rest of cacti. No cell brake and easier extraction after such treatment.
 

magickpencil

Alpiniste Kundalini
Inscrit
15 Mai 2008
Messages
674
i'm planning on trying some San Pedro this summer
from the reading i've done i've decided to cut up and freeze the cactus overnight, thaw it in the morning, cover the pieces with sugar (maybe some lemon) and eat them raw
i may, of course, be greatly underestimating the taste..
 

acim2

Banni
Inscrit
15 Mar 2007
Messages
172
No mention of alcohol extraction?
Swim did an ethanol extraction recently and it worked very well, better than tea with the same product, and much simpler than a real mescaline extraction. It's a nice way to go somewhere between tea and a full extraction to crystal.

Powdered dried cactus, put in 90% ethanol so the volume is doubled, soaked and shake every so often in a mason jar for a few hours or longer (up to 24 hours). Take off ethanol with baster after powder settles to the bottom of the jar.

Repeat 3-5 times until ethanol is pretty light after soaking powder. (The first few times it should be dark dark green, almost black.)

Take all the alcohol that was collected and filter through cloth to get out all powder that slipped in. Throw out the spent powder.

Evaporate alcohol so there's black tar like stuff left. (In a flat glass pan that can be easily scraped with a razor blade.)

Mix in a little baking soda so the tar's not so sticky and to help with stomach on consumption. Scrape off pan with razor blade. Put into capsules.

Eat capsules with a little ginger candy, and enjoy. 40-50 grams may make 6-8 capsules. Very little or no nausea.

Some people also use isopropyl alcohol, which is fine as long as it is 100% evaporated. Ethanol is more expensive, but maybe safer.
 

pinch_sins

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
4 Mai 2008
Messages
24
Yesterday I ate one of my san pedro. The method I used was similar to the one I gave above:

-I cut the cacti at the stem
-I removed the spikes with wire cutters/sharp pliers
-Then I washed it, I cut down the 'valleys' between the points of the stars around the cacti (ribs) to make several diamond shaped pieces
-I then removed the waxy skin from one and a half of those pieces, but it took so long and I had little time so I left the skin on the other pieces
-I then chopped all the pieces into small slices ready for blending
-I then put them in a blender with about the same volume of water (400ml cacti & 400ml water)
-blended them all up together until completely liquidised
-added maybe 3-4 teaspoons of demerera sugar (brown)
-added maybe two small servings of concentrated fruit cordial (squash type)
-re blended until throughly mixed
-poured out a pint of the liquid, drank it in one, poured out another pint via a sieve this time to remove flakes of skin and the odd tiny spike
-drank it in one (10 mins after the first pint)
-waited for the remaining foam in the blender to collapse into liquid then sieved it and drank it (another 1/2 pint or less).

And you know what, the whole thing tasted fine! If it wasn't for the fact that it was cacti, it probably would have tasted like nice fruit juice, like kiwi (as others have said).

No nausea at all except during the first drink as some skin stuck in my throat.

Weight of cacti just cut from stem (unprepared): 220g
Weight of cacti ready for blending (prepared): 190g

For those interested the trip wasn't very strong, which I kinda expected, but was very pleasant none the less. Next time I'll use at least twice the dose or more.

Bare in mind that this preparation (especially skin removal) takes a very long time, much longer that I thought before I did it (maybe 90mins for a 25cm pedro to remove the skin)
 

Goran.Hrsak

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
30 Mar 2006
Messages
2 454
pinch_sins
I told you before that Echinopsis cacti have taste like KIWI!!
But I believe that you aren't thrilled with cacti effect? Some of it come out but this is not it. I look on it like that. Every ass have hers opinion. :lol:

ACIM2, when I wrote bout cooking cacti I never thought on it as extraction.
I have explained only ritual use of Pedro's. Rest is only hallucinogenic experience. :wink:
 

pinch_sins

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
4 Mai 2008
Messages
24
I guess you were right about the dosages Goran, you think 2 next time will be enough for average or better trip? that should be about 400-450g of fresh cacti - will it be enough?

I only got 2 left you see...

Do you think it would be any less effective because I had it raw?
 

Goran.Hrsak

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
30 Mar 2006
Messages
2 454
I told you! USE ALL OF THEM! BUT COOK THEM. I have explained why!
Effect should be stronger but something special? NO. Much better if you cook them. SORRY. I am not offensive or rude! JUST TELLING YOU TRUTH!

HOPE NEXT ONE WILL BE WORTH OF YOUR EXPECTATIONS. :)

PEACE
LIGHT
BLESS
 

Goran.Hrsak

Holofractale de l'hypervérité
Inscrit
30 Mar 2006
Messages
2 454
acim2
What you have described was starting point of mescaline extraction.
My advice, do not use ethanol. Use methanol. Mescaline in cacti is basic alkaloid. Amines (as opposed to most of the other compounds in a
plant) are soluble in acidic (the salt form) but insoluble in basic (the basic
form) aqueous solution. However, the basic form is soluble in non-polar organic solvents whereas the acidic/salt form is not. Thus, by varying the pH, alkaloids can be taken from aqueous solution to organic solution or vice-versa, leaving behind other materials.
Ethanol or acetone could be substituted for methanol, but neither of these is quite as effective.
And use methanol in extraction hot! Cold one will dilute and suck out only 50% of mescaline.

pinch_sinswhy have you removed skin?? Skin and layer just beneath is mescaline and other alkaloids source! Middle and round it is only flesh with little bit of mescaline.
 

pinch_sins

Neurotransmetteur
Inscrit
4 Mai 2008
Messages
24
I just removed the clear plastic like skin, not any green matter (the stuff below the skin). Lots of preparation methods said to do this as the skin has no mescaline and only causes nausea.
 
Haut