DMT & dreams (Seeing strong correlation). Important!

[IJesusChrist]

Firstly,

I am an artist. Before I sleep, images flash through my vision hundreds of times a minute. Most are uninteresting, vague and seem to be pieces of an inconceivable whole - I just can't "use" or connect them to anything. Other times very raw and vivid images appear. Sometimes I am forced to draw them when I wake up, or even before I completely fall asleep. They are so vivid at times, they stick with me as memories, as strong as intense dreams. I have drawn many, and most are very beautiful or evoke STRONG emotion with me, however not tied to any particular memory or anything.

Secondly,

This type of imagery is greatly enhanced if, while eyelids shut, I focus my vision towards the top of my eyelid, as if looking at the sky, while head remaining level. I would like you all to try this, and see if this helps you. This enhancing of imagery ALSO tends to send me to sleep much faster - where if I stare "straight ahead" to the back of my eyelids, I may not fall asleep for hours, but I will reach dreamland within 30 minutes if my eye sight is angled upwards, towards my cranium. Please, again, experiment with this.

Thirdly,

These images I get before bed seem to be correlated with my DMT trips. Often before bed I have drawn pictures of beings and places, and upon tripping, these images are what approach and communicate with me. two theories (i choose the latter); 1) these beings use these images to give some referance to what I am seeing, 2) The drug induces images that are associated with it previously (see next point). I drew a shamn one night, and was approached by the same shaman in my DMT trip.

Lastly,

While I was on DMT, I did something that really showed me something interesting: I shut my eyes, and adjusted my eyesight upwards towards the cranium/forehead. The intensity was magnified. I remained in this state for a while, and moved my eyes downward after a minute or so, and the trip seemed to fade away.

So in conclusion, I am seeing a very strong correlation and evidence that DMT plays a role with dreams - I know this is already hypothesized, but no evidence has (or ever will be??) found to support it.

If you have DMT, please experiment with this and tell me your conclusions.

 

[BrainEater]

alright i'll tell you mate... 8)

ok... so your pineal gland which is supposedly having a connection or correlations with your dreams or you having the dreams, is actually a stargate construction.

this just means, while dreaming, you astrally project your consciousness "into the stars", and this just means your consciousness aligns with the universe to rest and interacts with the "fields" that connect "you" to to the universe.

so the chemical called DMT is actually very amazing and so might be your dreams... you know you can make dreams come true/real??? well maybe it's a matter of SYNTHESIS... after all... isn't our brains the famous ancient alchemists???
i mean our brains are said to be superior to any supercomputer, technically. yet they would be working with as little as
20W, performing most complex calculations...

actually i think what you are saying is a bit connected to what i think... you know the snake symbollism is around and it stands mostly for wisdom, healing, godly might, mistery and at the same time it's being painted over another painting, which says it stands for the devil, seduction of man, etc etc...
so well, i think the snake can be seen as a symbol OF nature for many things and hmm... think of DNA strings... how each cell carries the information of the whole organism, and thru resonance information is being sent/received... so maybe the DNA strings vibrate and they may well do so, if you think of the fact that cells have the innate capabilities to just copy all of the information that has been collected in the coding of specific DNA strings, and how these strings might be interacting with such a not-thing as a "world-soul" or you might even wanna call it "universe-soul"....
having considered all that or not, i dare to make you challenge pondering about your own soul, as well, if you like...

now the stargate construction in your head also happens to be a trap for your consciousness... and i tell you who/what set up the trap... it's you!!! or to be more precise: a part of you - your subconscious mind.

ok maybe it does make some sense to you!!!

peace :weedman:

 

[IJesusChrist]

Eh, you went a little far with what I was saying...

I don't believe DMT connects me to anything outside of my head - it's just the molecule of imagination. It binds images and emotions exceptionally well. It has most likely alot to do with out greatest feelings of motivation, awe, and inspiration.

Basically the point of this post was to say i am seeing the neurological tye between DMT, dreaming, and sleep. I don't believe dreams take place any other place than my head, and I don't think they are representative of anything beyond my memories - sure they can become real, just like your goals and plans become real, it's imagination. If I have a dream where I'm flying, however, I cannot start flying after I wake up, no matter how lucid or vivid the dream is.

 

[BrainEater]

alright i am sorry then, for having spilled my little theory i made up, in here...

however don't get me wrong tho!!! if it makes sense to you how you see your world, go on living with it... if it doesn't, change your perspective or position you have towards it... easy doing...

maybe it's the molecule of imagination... this might explain why you sometimes seem to feel like your imagination is dying...
think whether the universe is just outside your head or also inside your head or how there appears to be a correlation... if what i say still don't makes sense then just dismiss it as bullshit.

hmmm.... i just remembered something .... when i was a kid i once woke up in the morning and naturally went to the window and at some point in time a logical perception told me to stop and then i was not sure anymore i could just go on flying out of that window, like i did in the dream i was being in before....

 

[benzyme]

there's no neurochemical connection between the pineal gland, dmt, and dreaming, only anecdotal speculation.

for starters, the central 5HT receptor system is inactive during REM sleep; DMT's primary binding sites are 5HT, with strongest affinity for 5HT7. also, the pineal gland (and the brain in general) lacks mRNA transcripts for INMT, the last enzyme in the pathway for endogenous DMT production.
the more likely scenario is the production of pinoline prior to falling asleep. with the lack of light reaching the photoreceptors, the pineal gland produces melatonin, some of which metabolizes to pinoline, a known CYP2D6 inhibitor. this endogenous MAOI may temporarily prevent endogenous tryptamines, which are more than likely produced in peripheral tissues and cross the BBB, from being rapidly oxidized

*edit* REM sleep has two primary [active] neurotransmitters involved... acetylcholine, norepinephrine, and glycine. the former is responsible for memories, the latter, sleep paralysis.

many people have reported memories of trips, as have i. I've also dreamt about pcp experiences, that doesn't mean my brain produces pcp while i'm asleep.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Interesting. I will take the "Perhaps prior to sleep" - I definitely think that prior to sleeping, some very important psychonautical processes are taking place. You seem to have more neurochemistry knowledge than I, so I'm glad you responded.

Do you know of a link which describes anything about DMT in the human brain at all? I have never read about it being endogenous, or atleast nothing worth crediting.

The more I think about it, the more I believe DMT is more involved in emotion, rather than any type of visual effect. In very low doses it has great emotional effects, love, hate, fear.

I have definitely called it the "Awe" drug.

Beyond that, I am still seeing a strong correlation with (for some weird reason) that when the eyes are focused as far 'up' as possible, i.e. trying to see one's eyebrows, CEV's both intoxicated and before sleep increase dramatically. I really can't find any reason for this though.

 

[benzyme]

http://www.tripzine.com/pit/DMT_TA_anxiolytic.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16095048


these refs point to production in peripheral tissues, and point out the lack of INMT expression in the brain.

 

[IJesusChrist]

From source 1:

We propose that the main effect of endogenous
DMT may resemble low-dose, non-hallucinogenic
DMT administration, providing a homeostatic response
to alleviate, rather than promote, psychotic
symptoms.

That's very, very interesting. In many ways :idea: :!:

I'm too sleepy, I'll read the rest later.
P.S. are you from DMT Nexus? Your name is familiar

 

[benzyme]

i am.

 

[IJesusChrist]

That first paper was very interesting. It seems DMT may play a role in sedation and relaxation, rather than visualizations.

 

[benzyme]

yes, low doses are quite euphoric and relaxing, devoid of visuals and anxiety

 

[IJesusChrist]

So... the question is... what makes you dream :?:

 

[benzyme]

So... the question is... what makes you dream :?:

REM sleep has two primary [active] neurotransmitters involved... acetylcholine and glycine. the former is responsible for memories, the latter, sleep paralysis.

i think of dreams as 'indexed memories'...recollections of anything you've ever seen, felt, thought, heard, etc., thrown together in a random fashion

but some dreams are downright alien, unfamiliar...those are really interesting.
DMT may not be a source of dreaming, per se, at least not in the raphi nuclei, where many psychedelics exert their effects on 5HT...but DMT also binds sigma-1 receptors (this binding is a recent discovery), which are found in the lungs, pancreas, adrenal glands, heart, and even the brain. the sigma receptors are still a mystery to scientists...

the theorized connection between DMT and dreaming is intriguing to ponder, but the verdict still isn't in

 

[BrainEater]

you make yourself dream. or: parts of yourself make other parts of yourself dream. your energy field which is the earth + you and the universe + you interact with your conscious and unconscious perception. so the interface of your consciousness provides the base for the dreaming and the waking state. the interface of and for your consciousness is of course your brain.
your consciousness divides into unconscious to subconscious to conscious elements. generally speaking the sleeper makes you dream and your consciousness just experiences it or it makes the choice to become lucid and control the dream, in which you might be in. when lucid, you can basically control everything in the dream, because you have created all of it, in the first place.
i'd say desires and fears in your subconscious and unconscious mind make you dream. depending on the real or perceived freedom of the conscious mind, the amount of lucid dreams compared to the amount of dreams with a varying degree of unconsciousness to subconsciousness may differ greatly. i think we're here to learn... where ever here may be.

 

[IJesusChrist]

I can obviously relate to the memory indexing. But yes, there are feelings I have never felt, images I have never seen, ideas I hjave never imagined that have arisen in dreams. Dreams are poissibly the final frontier in neuroscience - to see what it is that happens, and maybe why.

Acetyle choline and glycine aren't very interesting molecules, I find it peculiar that they are so important in neurochemistry.

So, I think I just realized the obvious, these chemicals are just the keys to the locks that turn certain gears. The gears are what make us dream.

 

[ophiuchus]

i noticed the upward eye position as well, actually when i was little. i used to go on "spaceship rides", use my imagination to pretend that i was flying down a tunnel , you know when you lightly press on your eyelids while closed, how you get that ever changing, like brown wavy pattern like the mud on super mario kart, then it changes to neon colored rings of light, if you focus enough, you can fly right through the middle of them. thanks for the nostalgia.

hrmzz, probably coincidence, but every time my mind thinks about dmt, i get some sort of nostalgic memory.

 

[IJesusChrist]

Well, I think when you press on your eyelids thats something completely different.

REALLY no one is correlating with this, which is weird. Next time your high or something, before bed, close your eyes and instead of looking straight perpendicular to your face, angle your eyesight upwards as far as possible without any kind of strain... your abilities to see CEVs and imaginative imagery will greatly increase. This is the only way I can fall asleep as well...

 

[benzyme]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphene

Salvador Dali was a frequent practitioner of this technique.
I've done it on L and mushrooms, to some impressive effect

 

[ophiuchus]

i meant to present those as two different things. i meant to say that i know what you mean as far as increasing cevs with the upward looking position, as well as to just share some nostalgia with you guys since the topic sparked it.

no i have definitely noticed an increase in hypnagogia and a much faster "powering down" time in trying to fall asleep with that method. also if i concentrate well enough, i start to feel a sensation in the middle of my forehead, where a third eye would be if i had one (like where a real eye would be located), then the feeling slowly creeps back into my head, eventually consuming all of my head, and finally reaching the very top of my head, the place where energy would be flowing straight out of the top of my head if we were looking at chakras and by that point i have reached a deeeeep relaxation. i generally do this in a "corpse" position ( laying on my back, hands by my side or crossed like a pharoah, until my hypnagogic images stop flying by so quickly and start to linger a bit and melt and morph. i have almost watched myself fall asleep by doing this before. its hard staying aware though haha!


but lightly pressing on my eyelids was so awesome the first time i discovered it when i was little.

 

[ophiuchus]

now that i think about it, i automatically did this whenever i closed my eyes on any psychedelic. in the upper doses, that was literally all i could do to make myself comfortable. lie down, eyes up and closed. occasionally i would switch eye positions momentarily to spark another vivid wave of them