Danger of Islam!

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Without early Islam there would never have been a Renaissance, a Reformation and a French Revolution & Enlightenment in the West.

Islam, or the highly advanced Persian culture? I think it was mainly the latter. The Quran had very little to do with that.

You can say their scripture is violent, but do you have proof as to how many muslims strictly adhere to the more violent passages?

Regardless of the percentage, the more prevalent the religion becomes worldwide, the more there will be.

 

[Brugmansia]

Without early Islam there would never have been a Renaissance, a Reformation and a French Revolution & Enlightenment in the West. They shaped modern culture in many ways and led Europe out of the Dark Ages.

But just because the US and Russia saved Europe from the Nazi's, doesn't mean that we can't deliver critic on them nowadays regarding certain issues. It'd be a bit daft if we'd close our eyes for Guantanomo Bay because the US saved our existance in WWII. Or close our eyes for political eliminations of opposites in Russia.

They saved our civilisations, and we help to remember them to gain their civilisations further. We're investing with each other, and in each other.

It's not like a saviour or founder has the rights to perform fully in the way he wants to because of his heroic deeds. Variations in visions and sometimes war, are making up a prefered life for all as the time goes by. I'd hate humanity too if only my thoughts were leading.

You can say their scripture is violent, but do you have proof as to how many muslims strictly adhere to the more violent passages

That's why I said that I have my critic, like a pro-Jew who believes that Israel should eliminate it's neighbours for the promised land, or an acient Muslim who lives here and believes that he decides whether his wife may leave the house or not by kicking her.

After all, true honesty about ourselve connects each of us, and since the last 4000 years, we have become much calmer and more open to decide whether we want to adopt a certain foreign idea, or not.

It is not about proof or right, but lending a hand with a possible insight of awareness, with can contribute positively to life itself.

 

[Forkbender]

Without early Islam there would never have been a Renaissance, a Reformation and a French Revolution & Enlightenment in the West.

Islam, or the highly advanced Persian culture? I think it was mainly the latter. The Quran had very little to do with that.

The Quran had nothing to do with it, but Islamic Cultures that got their inspiration from it all the more. Without the Moorish culture in Andalusia, that brought Aristotle back to Europe, we probably wouldn't have any science whatsoever. Plato was largely forgotten as well, were it not for the (proto-)Turkish philosophers in Constantinopel

[quote:2sp2dkwk]You can say their scripture is violent, but do you have proof as to how many muslims strictly adhere to the more violent passages?

Regardless of the percentage, the more prevalent the religion becomes worldwide, the more there will be.[/quote:2sp2dkwk]

This is nonsense for at least two reasons.

First, if there is less opposition to islam, there is no need to be violent and violent muslims will cease to be violent in the process.

Second, if islam spreads, it will crossbread with other ideologies and forms of life, that can be more peaceful. See for example the Pakistani branch of sufism, which is basically a concoction of islam and hinduism.

@Brugmansia:

I agree with what you say and it is a better way to deal with issues we regard generally as foreign.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

First, if there is less opposition to islam, there is no need to be violent and violent muslims will cease to be violent in the process.

But there will be more opposition to Islam, even (or especially) when the number of muslims increases.

Second, if islam spreads, it will crossbread with other ideologies and forms of life, that can be more peaceful. See for example the Pakistani branch of sufism, which is basically a concoction of islam and hinduism.

Yes, but as soon as it transforms significantly, it isn't truly Islam anymore. We're discussing Islam here, not sufism or other movements.

 

[Forkbender]

The opposition will be fiercer, but not bigger. Which only results in people using the same violence they are fighting in others. Even if you are against religion you can fight a holy war and mess up the world.

What is true Islam? Where does it exist? There are so many different forms that cannot be reduced to each other that you cannot speak of one true Islam. So please explain what you mean.

 

[Pariah]

From my own investigation, islam seems to see science as a gift from god - to understand the big fella better... which is more than can be said for many other religions.

as an aside:

look up the atymology of *Chem*istry

***

Fork wrote: "but do you have proof as to how many muslims strictly adhere to the more violent passages?"

Not yet, but if I get put to death by any of my muslim friends for being an unbeliever, I'll let you know!

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

The opposition will be fiercer, but not bigger.

Why do you think that? I'm quite sure both will happen.

Which only results in people using the same violence they are fighting in others.

Do you think drawing a cartoon is as violent as beheading a cartoonist? That's the kind of balance we're dealing with here. None of us are suggesting violence.

What is true Islam? Where does it exist? There are so many different forms that cannot be reduced to each other that you cannot speak of one true Islam. So please explain what you mean.

I've posted a couple of quotes above, and I hope you read them one by one. That is the Islam we have issues with. If a person proclaims to follow the Quran yet doesn't openly denounce the above statements, he or she either directly or indirectly practicing the Islam I'm talking about. And that means a lot of modern muslims actually, because they too, like us, are too afraid to speak out about it.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

From my own investigation, islam seems to see science as a gift from god - to understand the big fella better... which is more than can be said for many other religions.

What verses from the Quran or Hadiths do you base that statement on? In practice, it only applies to "early Islam..." because, yes, in those days there was a quest for scientific knowledge. Some time before that many scientific breakthroughs were made and encouraged in the area of India, where much of the Persian culture has its roots. After a few centuries, when Islam became firmly established, it started to oppose scientific development.

 

[Pariah]

Based on personal communication, both with a theologist, and a muslim seperately - it comes up in discussions about young earth creationism and evolution often.

 

[Brugmansia]

Do you think drawing a cartoon is as violent as beheading a cartoonist? That's the kind of balance we're dealing with here. None of us are suggesting violence.

Balance is a weight scale of values, values and it's weight are made up by the choice of the mind itself. The mind changes it's values through time. And not everyone has been through time with the same bricks.

What about a painting in where a man and a woman are obviously equal as a couple, holding each others hand while they're reading the Quran?

Don't use a dagger, but toss a rope without any instruction. Only criticize those who're taking responsibility or the authorities.

 

[Ahuaeynjxs]

The islam you are talking about do not even know how to read their own book.

Al-Fatehe Verse
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(1.1)
Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;(1.2)
Most Gracious, Most Merciful;(1.3)
Master of the Day of Judgment.(1.4)
Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.(1.5)
Show us the straight way,(1.6)
The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.(1.7)

Sustainer of WORLD*S*.

Those whose portion is NOT wrath.

I could relate to anything else, and explain to you that all the violent verses are metaphors for the realm of imagination.

Do you think Jesus really mean you should cut off your right hand if you cannot keep yourself from grasping boobs and buttocks ?

That would be like trying to read the alphabet while adding the sound of each letter on top of each other.

The grace of allah is LOCAL, is FAMILY and is GRACEFUL, no physical violence is ever graceful. But if some stranger comes in your lucid dreaming collective family experience and tries to seduce your wife, you'll freakin cut his head and it'll be graceful.

Whoever does not understand this does not understand the marriage of Allah, and is not serious enough ; he should leave his clothes behind and run out of this land as fast as he can.

I'm not saying I follow those principles, I don't live there. But it's one reason I found I am not shaving, I denounce those people who try to mingle and judge these families that live where the earth matrix is cracking and grounding. I denounce the META-racism that would have us beleive that the babylonian culture was somehow primitive.

There is many people in the culture which went astray, but that is the karma of their family to fix it, it is highly improper to put our nose in their business.

This is a serious matter, do not get me going here...

 

[Brugmansia]

If the appearance of the fractals of wrath within one's divine would depend on the take up of his residence somewhere, I'd advice to take a job because it implies the connected yarn with the pulse of earth has already been cut for centuries.

Birds haven't attached their heart rate to any autonomous envelope.

 

[zezt]

http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007/11/28/is ... re-silent/

"While incivilities, violence and confrontations between young people of foreign origin and the police make the media headlines, the crisis of Dutch identity is also playing out in the background of demographic upheavals. Indeed, according to official projections, the muslim populations should form the majority of the large cities of the country within three years." http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2007/1 ... right.html

and connect with...

Kenya, Islam and Obama Hussein http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atla ... m-and.html "Kenya's Muslim population is roughly 10% - that historical tipping point where the Muslims traditionally assert themselves and their Islamic law (sharia) on the poor, unsuspecting host country."

Now, I am trying to point out the danger of creeping Islam with its dreadful, brutal Shariah Law. This is not me say to go kill all the muslims.
It is more, again, saying SEE THIS DANGER!!! And speak out. If you are fearful to, as many are, precisely BECAUSE of the danger of rabid islamicist death threats, well be aware of that threat, and fear, FIRST---dont pretend it is something else like politcal correctness BS!
It also doesn't mean not to speak out. But when the danger is seen and spoke out about then things might change. Burying head in sand will not do it, and then it's too late.

 

[restin]

Sustainer of WORLD*S*.

Those whose portion is NOT wrath.

I could relate to anything else, and explain to you that all the violent verses are metaphors for the realm of imagination.

Do you think Jesus really mean you should cut off your right hand if you cannot keep yourself from grasping boobs and buttocks ?

That would be like trying to read the alphabet while adding the sound of each letter on top of each other.

The grace of allah is LOCAL, is FAMILY and is GRACEFUL, no physical violence is ever graceful. But if some stranger comes in your lucid dreaming collective family experience and tries to seduce your wife, you'll freakin cut his head and it'll be graceful.

Whoever does not understand this does not understand the marriage of Allah, and is not serious enough ; he should leave his clothes behind and run out of this land as fast as he can.

I'm not saying I follow those principles, I don't live there. But it's one reason I found I am not shaving, I denounce those people who try to mingle and judge these families that live where the earth matrix is cracking and grounding. I denounce the META-racism that would have us beleive that the babylonian culture was somehow primitive.

There is many people in the culture which went astray, but that is the karma of their family to fix it, it is highly improper to put our nose in their business.

This is a serious matter, do not get me going here...

Thanks.
http://i-cias.com/e.o/sharia.htm




I thought about this stuff yesterday. Let's think, what are the most deathly cultures/religions on earth?

1. Atheists. Surprised? Communist Russia was officially atheist and so is China. Stalin and Mao were atheists and the most deadly people on earth.

2. Christians. Hitler was a katholic, there were the crusades, colonialization, french revolution, Bush is a Christian. And by the way if you are talking about the creeping islam, what the hell? Do you know the term globalisation? Have you ever been abroad? The christian culture (and these are we) is aggressively imposing its values onto the whole world.

 

[Mycophile]

AMEN

 

[HeartCore]

Wilders wants us to believe that he fights to protect our individual rights from some invisible religious force. Ironically if you look at Wilders political program, you find out he is all for more repressions towards (soft)drug use.

 

[Caduceus Mercurius]

Let's think, what are the most deathly cultures/religions on earth?

1. Atheists. Surprised? Communist Russia was officially atheist and so is China. Stalin and Mao were atheists and the most deadly people on earth.

2. Christians. Hitler was a katholic, there were the crusades, colonialization, french revolution, Bush is a Christian. And by the way if you are talking about the creeping islam, what the hell? Do you know the term globalisation? Have you ever been abroad? The christian culture (and these are we) is aggressively imposing its values onto the whole world.

There are already topics and numerous posts on Christianity and globalization, and we've also discussed China last year. But this topic is about Islam.

 

[restin]

If you discuss only one aspect, this will always be the most brutal,harsh and aggressive :roll:

 

[Mycophile]

He just makes a comparison between the agression of christians and the islam... what's wrong with that?

You can tell whatever you want from the islam... but those dudes do know how to make Hashish. I love the smell of Taliban in the morning!

 

[HeartCore]

He just makes a comparison between the agression of christians and the islam... what's wrong with that?

You can tell whatever you want from the islam... but those dudes do know how to make Hashish. I love the smell of Taliban in the morning!

Nothing wrong with that, someone who disagrees has a blind spot for history. You cannot see intolerant Islam apart from intolerant Christianity because the latter spawned the first. If you want to understand the extreme Islam, you have to look at extreme christianity, especially the ebonites who where the source of the 'great' literal christian doctrine that propelled our entire civilization into the dark ages and cause a spiritual degradation for 1600 years.